Sell a Strain to fund a Morgan?

Hedji · Post by **Hedji** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:28 pm

I currently have a Joe Strain 8 foot Indy whip on order... should be here any day now, actually. It will be my first whip. Never cracked one ever.

The thought that keeps creeping into my mind is that I maybe should sell the Strain to help fund a 10 foot David Morgan.

I'm not sure if owning two bullwhips is in my budget.

I really like the idea of having a David Morgan (yes, even if it's not braided by David himself.) And the 10 foot whip would display nicely with my Indy relic replicas and such.

But I've also heard such wonderful things about the Strain.

I also wonder if I would have difficulty learning to crack the 10 foot Morgan versus the 8 foot Strain.

Does anyone have any advice on this?

myrddin · Post by **myrddin** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:35 pm

Just a thouhgt, but why not see how you like the Strain before selling it?

Joe was taught by Morgan, the same as his kids who are doing it now under his name. So if you think about it, one whip is as close to the master as another, except maybe the blood coursing through the braiding fingers.

If you're just curious about how much better a 10 footer looks coiled versus an 8 footer, then I'd give the same advice: See how you like the one coming first and then think about selling it.

You've waited this long for a Strain (and I know because I've been waiting too -- he started working on mine today), check it out before putting it up on eBay.

Kentucky Blues · Post by **Kentucky Blues** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:44 pm

Really, if you think about it, if it's not being made by David Morgan himself, then a Morgan Whip is just someone else's whip being sold under Morgan's name. And seeing how Joe Strain was trained under Morgan, then a Strain whip is basically the same thing, a morgan whip being made by someone else. The only difference would be the "someone else" and the fact that this one doesn't have Morgan's name on it. And since David Morgan's whips seem to be more expensive, then the only thing you're getting by choosing morgan is the name "David Morgan" added for extra cash. (note: I don't know anything about the whip business, I could be wrong, and there could be more to it, but from what I can tell, this is the deal)

-KB

Bardoon · Post by **Bardoon** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:03 pm

My advice is that you've lost it.

I would never EVER give up a Strain for a Morgan. Maybe that's just me but Joe Strain's work is art and you are getting a whip that I would say is vastly superior to what Morgan's shop puts out nowadays (for half the price too!).

If having a whip with that "David Morgan" name on it is what is most important to you...then by all means I say get that whip...even if you plan to never crack it and just leave it in a display case.

But if you want top-tier work that not only captures the look, style and durability for HALF-THE-PRICE and made by a Morgan apprentice himself...you have no further to look than someone like Joe Strain or Bernardo Del Carpio or some of our other great whipmakers.

Boggstandard · Post by **Boggstandard** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:50 pm

By all means, keep the Strain.

IMHO, there is no comparison between what Joe is doing and the product coming from DM's shop lately.

You could buy two of Joe's whips for what you'll pay for a DM. Not only are Joe's whips functional, they are artfully rendered- beautifully done.

If you could find a "classic" Morgan in perfect condition, then perhaps the extreme cost would be justified.

As for the length, my experience is that 10' often presents challenges for those just learning to crack. And, if the whip is just staying coiled and displayed (God forbid), then what difference does length make?

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:35 am

Hedji, I can't speak for quality based on experience because I do not own either. But the Strains and Morgans I've seen look quite equal. Personally, based on what's been said so far in this thread, I go with the Strain if I chose right now.

As for length... start with the 8 footer until you know how to crack. You'll need at good year of practice, first, I think.

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:13 am

Unless you can find an older DM that was actually made by him, I'd stick with the JS you ordered. Joe is probably at the height of his skills and pound for pound, his seems like an amazing whip to own.

Also, many find 8 footers easier to learn on than 10 footers...

zohar · Post by **zohar** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:38 am

I handled whips by both Strain and Morgan before making my decision. I own two Strain whips now.

Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with a Morgan, but I would not get rid of the Strain before you've even received it. Receive your Strain, break it in over 6 months or so, and then try to get to a meetup with somebody who has a Morgan so you can crack it. Then make your decision.

bluzharp · Post by **bluzharp** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:41 pm

I wouldn't do it, IMHO. Strain still makes his whips, Morgan does not. You'd be trading for a name only. Joe makes great whips. Break that thing in, and you won't be sorry you kept it.

I could sell my broken in Strain for more than I paid for it, but I won't!

bluzharp · Post by **bluzharp** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:59 pm

Kentucky Blues wrote:Really, if you think about it, if it's not being made by David Morgan himself, then a Morgan Whip is just someone else's whip being sold under Morgan's name. And seeing how Joe Strain was trained under Morgan, then a Strain whip is basically the same thing, a morgan whip being made by someone else.
-KB

Owning a Strain, I have to slightly disagree here. True, Strain did train under Morgan, but he in no way tries to emulate Morgan's style. Joe has managed to improve many things, and has imparted his own excellent style into his whips, so it's not really accurate or fair to say "it's basically the same thing" that Joe's whips are like buying a Morgan made by someone else. You can't compare the two artists anymore.

I'm not knocking Morgan's whips, especially the one's he made himself. But Joe is the wave of the future when it comes to newer, top-notch whip makers.

So again I say, if you're buying a current production Morgan whip, you're buying the name only. And by doing so, buying a whip that is in some ways inferior to a whip made by Joseph Strain. Just my .02 cents.

Nebraska Brad · Post by **Nebraska Brad** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:34 pm

Keep the Strain and save for a Morgan.

-Nebraska

Vegeta · Post by **Vegeta** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:34 pm

I have a Strain.....If I ever got rid of it...I'd get another Joe Strain.....He's the man.

Kentucky Blues · Post by **Kentucky Blues** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:59 pm

bluzharp wrote:
Kentucky Blues wrote:Really, if you think about it, if it's not being made by David Morgan himself, then a Morgan Whip is just someone else's whip being sold under Morgan's name. And seeing how Joe Strain was trained under Morgan, then a Strain whip is basically the same thing, a morgan whip being made by someone else.
-KB
Owning a Strain, I have to slightly disagree here. True, Strain did train under Morgan, but he in no way tries to emulate Morgan's style. Joe has managed to improve many things, and has imparted his own excellent style into his whips, so it's not really accurate or fair to say "it's basically the same thing" that Joe's whips are like buying a Morgan made by someone else. You can't compare the two artists anymore.

I'm not knocking Morgan's whips, especially the one's he made himself. But Joe is the wave of the future when it comes to newer, top-notch whip makers.

So again I say, if you're buying a current production Morgan whip, you're buying the name only. And by doing so, buying a whip that is in some ways inferior to a whip made by Joseph Strain. Just my .02 cents.

Okay, I was wrong. Strain's whips are actually better, lol. But the point I was trying to make was that as Strain trained under Morgan, his Indy whip is basically the same model just made differenty, so it's the same kind of whip that you'd get from morgan, just made by someone else, and apparently made better.

-KB

bluzharp · Post by **bluzharp** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:02 pm

I get ya, KB. We're on the same page, bro. I'd love to own a Morgan made the man himself, but it's out of my price range. Not to say I haven't thrown one; a buddy of mine owns two Morgan's made back in the day, and they're sweet whips.

I've just found that Strain's evolvement is stunning. He is up there with the best we have today.--Tim

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:25 pm

My advice? Buy the first whip you see on eBay and send the Strain to me!

Keep the Strain. I've also handled a few Morgans, and one Strain. When I used the Strain, I was shocked at the fast action and handling it gave. I would love a Strain (but I prefer the look of a Bernardo and I'm excited to try something new)!

You have a fantastic whip coming - don't get rid of it!

Shane

bluzharp · Post by **bluzharp** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:26 pm

I just wanted to clarify that I'm not running PSA's for Strain. It's just that without a doubt, he is up there among the finest whip makers today that you can count on one hand. I truly believe there 5 or less, currently producing, whip makers in the world who all share the same distinction in terms of overall quality.

Plus, I also think this is a very exciting time, that we are able to talk with the Davinci's and Picasso's of contemporary whip making. These 5 or less names will be recognizable long after we are gone. And we have folks like David Morgan to thank for that, in terms of bringing the craft back again.

I know, bold words. But time will tell.

zohar · Post by **zohar** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:42 pm

bluzharp wrote:I just wanted to clarify that I'm not running PSA's for Strain. It's just that without a doubt, he is up there among the finest whip makers today that you can count on one hand. I truly believe there 5 or less, currently producing, whip makers in the world who all share the same distinction in terms of overall quality.

Plus, I also think this is a very exciting time, that we are able to talk with the Davinci's and Picasso's of contemporary whip making. These 5 or less names will be recognizable long after we are gone. And we have folks like David Morgan to thank for that, in terms of bringing the craft back again.

I know, bold words. But time will tell.

I completely agree. I'd also like to hear what your top 5 is. I assume Mike Murphy is included in there?

bluzharp · Post by **bluzharp** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:25 pm

Ahhhh... heh, heh... First of all we're getting off topic, and this discussion is better suited for a new thread. Second; I've received some VERY good advice from some VERY talented folks here, and don't wish to screw up my good standing on this board by engaging in such a baited question. But since you asked.... The best current whip makers are:

Eli Wallach
Ben Vereen
Joshua Logan
Leonard Nimoy
Stan Colton.

Boggstandard · Post by **Boggstandard** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:54 pm

I wouldn't hesitate at all to place Joe Strain on my personal list of the 5 best whip makers currently working.

The problem with compiling such a list is that very few people have enough exposure to a wide enough variety of makers to make an informed decision.

And, of course, such a list would be very subjective.

The reality is that there are a number of incredibly whip talented makers who could be considered.

Hedji · Post by **Hedji** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:12 pm

Interesting advice, everyone. Thanks very much.

A couple things that surprised me:

6 months??? That's how long it takes to break it in? You mean I might not hear a crack from it for that long?

I'm also surprised to hear such unanimous support for the Strain vs. the Morgan. Is there ANYONE who'd offer a different point of view, or a devil's advocate?

To be honest, yes, the Morgan name means a lot to me. I'm not sure it means everything to me, but it means a lot. I'd consider myself a prop replica collector first and an Indy collector second. And since I've never cracked a whip, I really don't know if I'll be any good at it, or even enjoy it for that matter. Be that as it may, I am looking forward to trying it, and having some fun with it.

I just hope I made the right decision, and that, God forbid, something doesn't happen to Mr. Morgan before I have a chance to purchase one of his little pieces of movie history.

rjallen70 · Post by **rjallen70** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:21 pm

I'll go ahead and Jump on Strain's bandwagon...
I love mine.
That being said, I would trade it for a Morgan made by Morgan in a second. A little satanic advocation for ya!
I suspect that Morgan's legacy and shop will continue after he is gone, so no real hurry to get a Morgan shop whip. I wonder if the price can be justified without him?
Also a whip need not break in to crack. It'll crack fine.
Ron

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:23 pm

Hedji wrote:6 months??? That's how long it takes to break it in? You mean I might not hear a crack from it for that long?

Oh, no. You'll hear cracking alright! It'll just be a little stiff until then. But take that opportunity to try and learn some good form! It's definitely not going to be 6 months of no cracking!

Shane

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:26 pm

No no no, nobody is saying that a whip that is not broken in won't crack. Not at all. A good whip will crack right away, that is if you know HOW to crack a whip. Then again, if you don't know how, you could have any whip in the world and it won't change anything. Broken in for a whip is the same as for a pair of shoes; its the time that is needed depending on the use, for it to loose the innitial stiffness and become more pliable and supple. A newly made whip will be stiff because the leather is pulled and stretched during the plaiting process, otherwise it would turn into a wet noodle in a few days. A well made whip will become more supple but will still have a tight weave. So no worries, you can crack your whip straighaway.

zohar · Post by **zohar** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:30 pm

Hedji wrote:Interesting advice, everyone. Thanks very much.

A couple things that surprised me:

6 months??? That's how long it takes to break it in? You mean I might not hear a crack from it for that long?

Negative, that's not what I'm saying at all. Your whip will crack fine from the first time you throw it (with proper execution). In my experience, it takes a while to break in a good whip to a point where it's really fluid and easy to crack. Good whips are generally a little stiff from the get-go, and a couple months of regular cracking are what it will generally take to loosen them up.

You have absolutely nothing to worry about regarding your Strain purchase.

As for getting a Morgan, if it means that much to you, by all means, start saving up to get one. I just wouldn't trade the Strain for it if that was all you could have.

SHoWhips · Post by **SHoWhips** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:30 pm

It sounds like you've got it bad for a Morgan. Based on your last statement, I'd find out if in fact Mr. Morgan would make a whip if specifically asked. If so, I'd say you have your answer. If he has permanently "retired" from whipmaking, then you have all the previous posts to reflect on.

Regardless, you really should allow yourself the opportunity to try out the Strain whip when you receive it. Only when the whip is in your hands and you're able to examine and throw it will you finally be in a better position from which to judge. You may just find that, as others have confirmed, you now own a fantastic piece of art to be proud of.

Good luck in your decision!

~Scott

Boggstandard · Post by **Boggstandard** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:44 pm

The interesting thing about the forum is you have whip people, you have Indy people, and you have gear people- each with their own priorities and values.

If the Morgan name is of overriding importance to you, then the deal is done- get a Morgan.

Mannie Bothans · Post by **Mannie Bothans** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:45 pm

Hedji wrote:
I'm also surprised to hear such unanimous support for the Strain vs. the Morgan. Is there ANYONE who'd offer a different point of view, or a devil's advocate?

I just hope I made the right decision, and that, God forbid, something doesn't happen to Mr. Morgan before I have a chance to purchase one of his little pieces of movie history.

Well, you have all the time in the world to find a Morgan whip made by Morgan that looks like the ones in the first three movies. I'd say all of those exist that are ever going to exist and you will have to find someone willing to part with such a vintage beaut. As is has been said many times, David Morgan is no longer making the David Morgans. Even if you could persuade him to make one again, and even if he was able to do it, it wouldn't look like the ones that were made for the films. If you want an accurate replica, buy a Del Carpio.

So, I'll be another Satanic advocate. Cancel your Strain order immediately (so he can get to mine sooner. He's not scheduled to start on mine until Wednesday).

Seriously though, Joe Strain is now using Walt's measurements and he has started making the turk more like the vintage Morgan pineapple.

If you don't like the Strain, I'll give you $50 for it.

bluzharp · Post by **bluzharp** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:56 pm

Mannie wrote:

>>So, I'll be another Satanic advocate. Cancel your Strain order immediately (so he can get to mine sooner. He's not scheduled to start on mine until Wednesday).

LOL!!! You're so right bro. Last November, I thought 4 weeks was torture. Now, I can't even imagine!

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:37 pm

Well, like everyone else said, having a Strain would pretty much be the equivalent of having a Morgan, considering that Morgan doesn't make whips anymore (from all reports), and considering that Strain used to be one of Morgan's prized apprentices. Not to mention that Strain would presumably have alot more experience under his belt than what you may recieve from Morgan's current apprentice (although I can't say this for a fact, and do not mean any harm... simply speaking from what I've heard).

Coming from the Jacket camp though, I can see where authenticity is of utmost importance. To you, having a Morgan would be the equivalent of me owning a Wested. Still, unlike the jackets, these whips have no real labelling (outside of the handiwork), and therefore the real 'authentic' value would be in the hands of the maker.

Strain is, in a way, a representation of David Morgan, since he was apprenticed under him. Which, to me, means that he represents the original trilogy. Strain also had his whips used in the new Indiana Jones movie, which if you think about it, means that a Strain would ultimately BE THE Indiana Jones whip. Not too many whipmakers can claim an association with ALL the Indiana Jones movies, but Strain is one of them.

Which is why I have two Strain's at the moment. However, if you're still reaching for another reason, then consider this: Peter Botwright used to work in Western Concessionaires. When he formed Wested, the lineage behind the product was still the same.

Bernardodc · Post by **Bernardodc** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:22 am

Castor Dioscuri wrote:Well, like everyone else said, having a Strain would pretty much be the equivalent of having a Morgan, considering that Morgan doesn't make whips anymore (from all reports), and considering that Strain used to be one of Morgan's prized apprentices.

Strain is, in a way, a representation of David Morgan, since he was apprenticed under him.

Just to set the record straight (again), Joe Strain has never been David Morgan's apprentice. I discussed this subject at length with both David Morgan and Joe. In Morgan's view, you can only be someone's apprentice if you have been trained and worked along a master whipmaker for at least 5 years. This was the common australian practice. In that sense, David told me that the ONLY apprentice he's ever had is Meagan Baldwin, who these days is his ASSISTANT, and she is in charge of the whipmaking operation at David Morgan. I would say this qualifies her to carry on the Morgan legacy very well.

Joe is a self-taught whipmaker in his own right. He had been making whips for some years before meeting David Morgan. According to both, David helped him refine his whipmaking skills, that in turn allowed Joe's work to get to the next level. David told me he didn't teach Joe how to make a whip, because Joe already knew how. Joe confirmed this, and the few visits that Joe made to DM were devoted to learning the techniques of the australian whipmakers.

Both Joe, Paul Stenhouse, and myself have been very lucky in receiving the generous help of David Morgan. In my case, I also learned on my own, but following his advise as closely as possible. When I met him, he showed me everything involved in making his whips and the reasons behind every step. I even braided a few whips under his supervision. Yet, I am not his apprentice.

Back to Joe, he has his own way of doing things, his own style, and has gracefully combined them to create a wonderful version of the Indy whip. If you get a Strain, you are getting a Strain, not a Morgan. It' a whip made in the same style, but it is made by a different master whipmaker. Recently he's made some changes in his basic design to make his whips look closer to David Morgan's early whips.

I should add that I am a great admirer Joe's work, (I have 4 Strains and counting) as I also admire David Morgan's (no surprise here). Each have their own place, and should be valued accordingly. Without David Morgan's help, Joe probably woudln't be as good as he is now, and Joe is the first to say that. He is very grateful for the help he recieved from David.

Regards,

Bernardo

Boggstandard · Post by **Boggstandard** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:45 am

A great posting Bernardo- clarifying a sometimes murky picture.

GeordieIndy · Post by **GeordieIndy** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:35 am

Everything I am reading these days is changing my mind on what whip I want....

I was dead set on a Morgan but now looking at recent pics of whips I am leaning towards a Strain :!:

This website is great but so many choices and things to consider, it can make a person go mad :!:

GeordieIndy

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:23 am

Once more Bernardo has expressed things with clarity and class.

All whipmakers, be they full-time masters, or part-timers, develop their own style, which is what I find really fun! How boring would it be to onlyhave one type of car to choose from? Sure it would make things easy, but hardly interesting.

I do concede that it must be a hard thing to do if you are trying to purchase your first whip, to decide which one to buy. But, look at it this way, if you buy the best quality you can aford without getting yourself into trouble with the missuz, then you are probably getting a good whip. Learn with it, and when you feel a need for change, you can always sell it or simply get yourself another from someone else. One thing's for sure, once you start down this path, forever will it control your destiny. Consume you it will! lol! So don't think for a second you will stop at only one whip. That just isn't going to happen!
Cheers,

Franco

Solent MKIII · Post by **Solent MKIII** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:54 am

As maddening as it can get, isn't it great, though? We have the privilege today of being able
to choose from a number of whips being made by some excellent whipmakers out there.

That said, the second whip I purchased was a Morgan 10-footer. I really wanted a whip
from the company that produced them for the first three movies. Wether mine was made
in whole or part by David himself ( I ordered mine just before he retired, I think ) doesn't
really bother me - I wanted a Morgan!! The price put me off a bit originally, but I went ahead
with my order. Just a week later, I found Joe's website and the Indy-style whips he makes -
Man! I wanted one of those too! I'm glad I stuck with my first choice, but I'll probobly save
up for a Strain in the future.

Nebraska Brad wrote:Keep the Strain and save for a Morgan.

-Nebraska

My thoughts exactly. :junior:

jason10mm · Post by **jason10mm** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:59 am

I can't comment about the differences between a Strain or a Morgan (having seen neither aside from pics on this forum), but as a new cracker, I can say that 8 feet is still a heck of a long whip and coils well.

I'm using a nylon whip as I live in a swamp, but I don't think 2+ extra feet would help me learn and would only mean I had to have even more room around me. So don't feel that you are cheating yourself in any way about learning to crack on an 8 footer, and you are probably doing yourself a favor.

If you do enjoy cracking, just sock away $10 a week. By the time you have out-grown the Strain you would have enough for the Morgan. That is basically what I am doing. After the cheap entry price of the nylon whip, I am saving for a Strain so I will have the best of all worlds. A quality leather whip for show and use (my "BBQ whip", as it were

and a sturdy nylon for daily use when the perpetually damp grass would limit the use of a leather whip.

Marhala · Post by **Marhala** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:06 am

I think it depends on what you want. I have read that Strains are ligther and tighter, and Morgans, looser and heavier. I own an old Strain and like it very much, but would love to have a whip with a looser, heavier thong, which was pretty much what my first whip, a Mexican four plait bullwhip, was. In your place, I would buy the Morgan, because I already have a Strain. Now... the price is a bit high for me, so I'd better stick with Del Carpio's.

WHAT A DILEMMA! LOL

jedidentist · Post by **jedidentist** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:38 pm

I had the money to buy whatever I wanted. Prop fan first, Indy fan extremely close second, whip cracker a WAAAAYYYYY distant 3rd. For me, the Morgan name means everything. When the casual fan asks about my gear, I can say that it's all made by the people that made it originally for Raiders...might not be the same exact person, but it's the same "people". It's like owning a Wested...the people that made mine aren't the same people that made Harrison's....but it's the same company. Just think of a Morgan as a company now and not a person. Still made to the same standards, just not the exact same person. Trying to explain to a casual fan that so and so was trained by the guy who made it originally results in a glazed look of, "okay, whatever...." Truth is, a Morgan whip is expensive, and handles differently than other people's whips, but it's no more a waste of money than spending $500 on a whip.

serrecuir · Post by **serrecuir** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:54 pm

Hedji,

As someone who did EXACTLY that (I sold my Strain from 2003 to get a 2007 Morgan), here is my advice - Don't do it!

It's not that I regret getting a Morgan (far from it!), but I DO regret selling that Strain...

So what's a Indyfan supposed to do? Keep the Strain, and save, save, save for that Morgan. Good luck with whatever choice you make. Find comfort in the fact that it's ultimately a "win-win" situation. Both are fantastic whips!!

-Craig

hollywood1340 · Post by **hollywood1340** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:18 pm

jedidentist wrote:I had the money to buy whatever I wanted. Prop fan first, Indy fan extremely close second, whip cracker a WAAAAYYYYY distant 3rd. For me, the Morgan name means everything. When the casual fan asks about my gear, I can say that it's all made by the people that made it originally for Raiders...might not be the same exact person, but it's the same "people". It's like owning a Wested...the people that made mine aren't the same people that made Harrison's....but it's the same company. Just think of a Morgan as a company now and not a person. Still made to the same standards, just not the exact same person. Trying to explain to a casual fan that so and so was trained by the guy who made it originally results in a glazed look of, "okay, whatever...." Truth is, a Morgan whip is expensive, and handles differently than other people's whips, but it's no more a waste of money than spending $500 on a whip.

And according to some IJIV was not the same movie even though it was made with the same people and the same company. Just can't please them all. I'm all for function over form over name.

Shagbd · Post by **Shagbd** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:20 pm

Bernardodc wrote:
Castor Dioscuri wrote:Well, like everyone else said, having a Strain would pretty much be the equivalent of having a Morgan, considering that Morgan doesn't make whips anymore (from all reports), and considering that Strain used to be one of Morgan's prized apprentices.

Strain is, in a way, a representation of David Morgan, since he was apprenticed under him.
Just to set the record straight (again), Joe Strain has never been David Morgan's apprentice. I discussed this subject at length with both David Morgan and Joe. In Morgan's view, you can only be someone's apprentice if you have been trained and worked along a master whipmaker for at least 5 years. This was the common australian practice. In that sense, David told me that the ONLY apprentice he's ever had is Meagan Baldwin, who these days is his ASSISTANT, and she is in charge of the whipmaking operation at David Morgan. I would say this qualifies her to carry on the Morgan legacy very well.

Joe is a self-taught whipmaker in his own right. He had been making whips for some years before meeting David Morgan. According to both, David helped him refine his whipmaking skills, that in turn allowed Joe's work to get to the next level. David told me he didn't teach Joe how to make a whip, because Joe already knew how. Joe confirmed this, and the few visits that Joe made to DM were devoted to learning the techniques of the australian whipmakers.

Both Joe, Paul Stenhouse, and myself have been very lucky in receiving the generous help of David Morgan. In my case, I also learned on my own, but following his advise as closely as possible. When I met him, he showed me everything involved in making his whips and the reasons behind every step. I even braided a few whips under his supervision. Yet, I am not his apprentice.

Back to Joe, he has his own way of doing things, his own style, and has gracefully combined them to create a wonderful version of the Indy whip. If you get a Strain, you are getting a Strain, not a Morgan. It' a whip made in the same style, but it is made by a different master whipmaker. Recently he's made some changes in his basic design to make his whips look closer to David Morgan's early whips.

I should add that I am a great admirer Joe's work, (I have 4 Strains and counting) as I also admire David Morgan's (no surprise here). Each have their own place, and should be valued accordingly. Without David Morgan's help, Joe probably woudln't be as good as he is now, and Joe is the first to say that. He is very grateful for the help he recieved from David.

Regards,

Bernardo

This whole post here just exemplifies what a CLASS act these whip makers are!!
If you really READ into what Bernardo is saying , there is nothing but respect between them all, that is awesome to me!

I have "attacked" this whip hobby just like my other custom collecting hobbies, and I have been lucky enough to get to know, albeit over the phone and email... the whipmakers I am buying from. I have been floored by the honor, generousity in information and just all around CLASS that these folks have!
Sure you guys make whips, but you also make FRIENDS and that is the big thing to me.

If im showing a friend something in my collection, sure i could say "well, this way made by that guy who made um for that movie"........ that might mean alot to some folks, but to me, it means alot to say "this was made by my FRIEND ________"........

For example, i have to brag on the whips I just got from Bernardo and Joe...... they are amazing works of art, but also, they are both made by two people i now call friend........... THATS what this is all about to me.....

just my 2 cents

Hedji · Post by **Hedji** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:38 pm

jedidentist wrote:I had the money to buy whatever I wanted. Prop fan first, Indy fan extremely close second, whip cracker a WAAAAYYYYY distant 3rd. For me, the Morgan name means everything. When the casual fan asks about my gear, I can say that it's all made by the people that made it originally for Raiders...might not be the same exact person, but it's the same "people". It's like owning a Wested...the people that made mine aren't the same people that made Harrison's....but it's the same company. Just think of a Morgan as a company now and not a person. Still made to the same standards, just not the exact same person. Trying to explain to a casual fan that so and so was trained by the guy who made it originally results in a glazed look of, "okay, whatever...." Truth is, a Morgan whip is expensive, and handles differently than other people's whips, but it's no more a waste of money than spending $500 on a whip.

This describes me exactly, and this post really resonated with me. But, I will keep an open mind. I'll have an answer soon; my Joe Strain whip should be here this week or next.

Who knows? Maybe I'll just fall in love with it and forget all about the Morgan idea.

jedidentist · Post by **jedidentist** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:41 pm

I hear ya. Keep it and maybe save up for a Morgan later if you really want it. It's not like a used Strain is really going to de-value anyway...you can always sell it later if you still have the itch.

Sell a Strain to fund a Morgan?

Sell a Strain to fund a Morgan?

Confused...