Whip as a Bear deterrant??

gi_canuck · Post by **gi_canuck** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:00 pm

Hello everyone. I was walking along the hike trail today and encountered a bear from the distance... It was about 100 meters away from me as it noticed me. Since I happened to carry my whip on my side whenever I go hiking (The place I am in is full of wild animals like coyotes, bears, deer, rattle snakes etc... so I carry my whip with me all the time, just in case)

Anywho, call me stupid, but I got my whip out and cracked it a couple times towards the bear's direction and it just ran away. In retrospect, I felt pretty stupid since it could've easily felt threatened and charged towards me and ripped me to shreds instead of running away from me.

However a thought occurred though. How effective would a whip be against a bear or even wolf in... say close range (20 to 30ft or even closer)? Maybe to scare them away or even for a defense against their attack. This is first time using a whip against a possible wildlife threat. Does anyone have a similar experience like this? Appreciate any advice.
Cheers!!

Jakk55 · Post by **Jakk55** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:52 pm

Bad, bad, bad idea.
Bears are regularly known to take numerous firearm hits and keep on coming so getting hit by a whip isn't going to deter them much. Any time you see a bear you just want to stay away, and move further away slowly and quietly.

Cracking a whip is loud piercing and abrupt(quite similar to a firearm), it is one of those things that could easily set off a bear, especially if it has encountered firearms in its past. Again just stay away, and walk further away slowly and quietly.

TurnerME · Post by **TurnerME** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:30 am

That is a neat story and an interesting topic. I know there are multiple opinions on the subject. I have encountered Black bears before and have had success with backing away quietly and slowly, and also shooing the bear away by making noise.

Here are a few links with subtle differences in how handle bear encounters.

http://www.mountainnature.com/Wildlife/ ... unters.htm
http://www.centerforwildlifeinformation ... nters.html
http://www.udap.com/safety.htm

gi_canuck · Post by **gi_canuck** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:21 am

Awesome articles. Thanks!!! Now I have more knowledge on this matter, I should be able to be a bit wiser about it next time if something like this happens... Maybe it's a good investment to have a bear spray...

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:49 am

Geez!!

I thought they taught this stuff in Canadian schools (They don't but it'll get the Americans going, "I knew it!!").

You're a brave man, cause I'm pretty sure that bear could have ate you, then used the whip as dental floss!!

Next time, back away...I suppose if it were to charge you randomly then why not use the whip, I mean what have you got to loose at that point, but seems a bit risky to go making super loud scary sounds around a bear!

gi_canuck · Post by **gi_canuck** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:56 am

Haha... Yeah we DID learn all that since you mentioned it. I must have slept through all that except the whole "make lots of noise" part and I DID!! haha. In retrospect, I do feel stupid... Kind of gambled with my life... At the time though, I guess I got a bit carried away with all the excitement. Considering some of these bears around the area don't seem to have any fear of humans, I got lucky I guess... At least I know I will never do that again. Dang... times like this I wish I can actually carry a pistol with me in one of these hiking trips...

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:19 am

Don't take this the wrong way, but that just screams asking for trouble in my opinion...

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:34 am

The question is, what would Indy do ...

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:39 am

Ha..he's gonna punch that thing right in the face!! That's how we roll up here in Canada... the saying here goes, "One in the face, two in the "place"

That's the only way to beat a bear....or you could do what you're really supposed to do...I guess...if you don't wanna look as cool.

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:53 am

No, dude...Just give him a Tim Horton's Donut, let him have a couple of the beers in your pocket, and then when you get him a lit up, sing him to sleep with some Rush or Bryan Adams songs, put your touk over his eyes and walk away quietly.

Beauty, Eh?

If that fails, whack him in the jubblies with your goalie stick.

-Dan

(sorry, just thought I would perpetuate some Canadian stereotypes too! I'll go back to driving my SUV full of guns and eating hamburgers now.)

-Dan

montana · Post by **montana** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:59 am

All you people can think of is fighting the poor creature, why not befriend him instead?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ynz2QBeb5Ok

Regards!

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:18 am

Hey! I was talking about sharing my beer and donuts, and singin' Rush songs with him! I only do that with friends!

And sometimes I only hit my friends in the jubblies with a goalie stick.

(hmmm...I'd been wonderin' why I don't have so many friends these days...)

HDRnR · Post by **HDRnR** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:46 am

It worked tho...

Jakk55 · Post by **Jakk55** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:02 pm

thefish wrote:No, dude...Just give him a Tim Horton's Donut, let him have a couple of the beers in your pocket, and then when you get him a lit up, sing him to sleep with some Rush or Bryan Adams songs, put your touk over his eyes and walk away quietly.

Beauty, Eh?

If that fails, whack him in the jubblies with your goalie stick.

-Dan

(sorry, just thought I would perpetuate some Canadian stereotypes too! I'll go back to driving my SUV full of guns and eating hamburgers now.)

-Dan

Sounds like a Canadian version of Odysseus and the Cyclops. lol.

techrtr · Post by **techrtr** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:07 pm

Don't know if you did the right thing or the wrong thing, but making noise and letting the bear know you're there isn't a bad thing. Kind of similar to using a bear banger. Problem with bangers is, if you fire one over the bear, you can scare it towards you. Not really a problem with the whip. If a bear actually charged me, as a last resort if I wasn't carrying bear spay, I would try to whip it in the face and then throw the whip. Hopefully it would be intererested enough in the whip to give me time to get some distance.

Interesting conundrum.

gi_canuck · Post by **gi_canuck** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:44 pm

No, dude...Just give him a Tim Horton's Donut, let him have a couple of the beers in your pocket, and then when you get him a lit up, sing him to sleep with some Rush or Bryan Adams songs, put your touk over his eyes and walk away quietly.

Beauty, Eh?

If that fails, whack him in the jubblies with your goalie stick.

Good one... Now the thing is... I can skip all those written above... and scare the bear away with just Celine Dion music!! Now that's scary!!

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:12 pm

Good thinking!

That'd work on me!

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:21 pm

I say serve up a steaming hot plate of poutine and use the whip as a rop to get yourself up in the trees and swing from branch to branch, until you reach safety. That's how we do it here...

gi_canuck · Post by **gi_canuck** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:46 pm

I say serve up a steaming hot plate of poutine and use the whip as a rop to get yourself up in the trees and swing from branch to branch, until you reach safety. That's how we do it here...

Mmm... Poutine... If I had a poutine with me, I am not giving it up to the bear, I'd fight to death and that bear will think twice about stealing anyone's poutine after that!! haha.

dr. tyree · Post by **dr. tyree** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:21 pm

(very old but still funny and educational joke:)

Businessman going on fishing vacation asks Alaskan guide by phone about what handgun to bring for bear encounters. Businessman: "I have a .44 magnum Ruger with a five inch barrel I'm planning to bring. What do you think about that?" Guide: "You could bring that, but first take it to a gunsmith and have the front site ground off." Businessman: "Hmm. Is that so it will come out of the holster faster?" Guide: "No, but it won't hurt as much when the bear jams it up your ---."

The joke being that most fishing guides in bear country seem to rely on 12 gauge slug guns and nothing smaller, though a few also carry a belt gun for a Hail Mary situation.

As to the original scenario, if I had a bear and all I had was a whip, I would stay on the move (laterally) and combination crack that whip like crazy to make as much steady noise as I could while simultaeously screaming my head off and hoping it confused and/or scared the bear enough to make him lose interest. If that failed, I'd use the whip to hang myself.

(Seriously, I like the idea about using the whip to swing up into a tree.)

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:05 am

Well there are so many people who ask 'Why can't I swing from my whip like Indy?', I mean NOW would be the time for this sort of a gamble, no?

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:04 am

Canuck Digger wrote:Well there are so many people who ask 'Why can't I swing from my whip like Indy?', I mean NOW would be the time for this sort of a gamble, no?

bluzharp · Post by **bluzharp** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:03 am

Hi gi_canuck. I've had at least three bear encounters up in Idaho, and from what I've seen, I feel comfortable telling you this; first of all, a whip will not hurt a bear whatsoever if used in self defense. To scare them maybe, but I'd hate to take that chance. Their hides are just too tough.

Second of all, as someone previously mentioned, even a few shots with a large cal. pistol is no guarantee. Read up on some of those links posted. Please be safe, they can be very dangerous.

gi_canuck · Post by **gi_canuck** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:25 pm

Bears.... why does it have to be bears...

Bears... very dangerous.... you go first!!

It's not the bears, hon... it's the mileage!

Hmm... So obviously, a bullwhip is a no match for a bear... but I wonder how effective a whip would be against a wolf, coyote or a cougar or something...?

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:37 pm

The only guarantee of help you will get from a whip in a bear encounter is to be sure you keep your whip well greased with bacon grease! This will help keep the whip loose and supple in cold, damp weather, and if you encounter a bear, throw the whip one way, then run in the other.

Hopefully the bear will be to busy eating your whip to notice you hightailing it out!

Regards! Michaelson

Soup · Post by **Soup** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:29 pm

Here in the Smokey's, a bear would probably get a smell of that roo hide whip and want to check it out!

Stopping to think of it, all that Indy gear just screams buffet.

Regards,

Soup

gi_canuck · Post by **gi_canuck** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:13 pm

When I hike in the North Cascades every year, I carry three things for bears:

A bear bell on my belt
A 6-ft nylon bullwhip
A Glock 29 loaded with 200 grain full metal jacket

The bear bell is the first line of defense - bears don't want to see us, and if they hear us coming they will leave. I am confident this has worked for me, as I have seen bears in the distance, and they've been heading away from me. The whip is the second line of defense. I did once surprise a bear and her cubs when I walked out of a copse of trees into a large open glen. I was down wind and it was a little windy so the sound of the bell may have been drowned-out. She looked hard at me with her ears up at about 120 yards. I cracked the whips a few times and they left. I've never had to use the Glock, but I have talked to guys who have either used or witnessed others using a variety of other guns. Important safety tip? 9mm/45cal hollowpoints just tick them off. You can empty a clip into a brown bear, and then they will kill you... 44 mag, 357 mag, or a properly powered 10mm load, and forget hollowpoints. Full metal jackets only... Killing a bear is about penatrating power and blasting their head to pieces before they get to you...

JMO...

Now, that's hiking!! I don't think we are ever allowed to have a sidearm of any kind in Canadian wildness unless you are government authorized prospector or something, but it sure would help, if I ever venture into a total wilderness... Oh well... It looks like I'll still carry the whip just in case though... I am pretty sure that it may not work on a bear, but it may on smaller animals... Just hope I don't ever have to use my whip in any self-defense situations against any wild animals.

Jakk55 · Post by **Jakk55** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:18 pm

gi_canuck wrote: Now, that's hiking!! I don't think we are ever allowed to have a sidearm of any kind in Canadian wildness unless you are government authorized prospector or something, but it sure would help, if I ever venture into a total wilderness... Oh well... It looks like I'll still carry the whip just in case though... I am pretty sure that it may not work on a bear, but it may on smaller animals... Just hope I don't ever have to use my whip in any self-defense situations against any wild animals.

Really? When I was hiking in British Columbia and Yukon a couple years back I would see people carrying rifles and large caliber revolvers all the time.

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:09 pm

Seriously, if you are that concerned about bears, maybe consider an alternate route...

Otherwise bearspray would be my choice of weapons. But the bell is a good idea!

I can confirm that a handgun is a restricted weapon in Canada, allowed only under VERY strict conditions and last time I looked, hiking was not on that list...

gi_canuck · Post by **gi_canuck** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:00 pm

I rarely ever have these kind of encounters, but that one time incident just kind of freaked me out a bit... Maybe I am getting a bit too paranoid... Oh well, maybe I am just jumping at my own shadow... I don't think anything would happen... just good to be prepared, just in case...

Shawnkara · Post by **Shawnkara** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:14 am

gi_canuck wrote:Hmm... So obviously, a bullwhip is a no match for a bear... but I wonder how effective a whip would be against a wolf, coyote or a cougar or something...?

A wolf or coyote, maybe. My neighbor had two mean pitbulls, and they never came near me or my kids again after I sliced one of their ears badly with my whip.

A cougar, forget it! If a cougar comes near you at all, it's because it's hunting you. And if that be the case, you won't see it coming. He'll have half your face peeled off before you even see him or know what's on you. They generally go for the head/throat.

jason10mm · Post by **jason10mm** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:12 pm

I don't think a whip could do much of anything PHYSICALLY to a bear, mainly as they could charge so fast I doubt anyone short of a master whipuser could get a shot in.

But the noise and the sight of the whip arcing about would probably shy off most beasties. Few animals would willingly head towards such a strange and offensive creature, IMHO. Of course if the bear was not acting aggressively, I would just move away. It it was acting aggressively then I might try the whip while preparing to shoot. If I had only a whip and no firearm (a situation Americans will hopefully never have to be in anymore) I guess it would be worth a try prior to running away.

Would it save you if you are between a sow and her cub? Probably not. That is where situational awareness and a proper bit of gear (such as a shotgun with slugs) would come in handy. But aside from brown bears or grizzlies, I don't hear much about other bear attacks unless it is hurt, starving, or cornered/seperated from cubs.

But would a whip fend off a mountain lion?

:

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:20 pm

jason10mm wrote: But would a whip fend off a mountain lion? :

Only if you were lucky enough to get it around it's neck and strangle it to death. Otherwise....no.

Regards! Michaelson

Kilgour Trout · Post by **Kilgour Trout** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:40 pm

Hey Guys: Having lived up in the bush for a few years..I think Jason has some great comments.

Cracking the whip in our yard generally kept most of Yogi and his friends away but in a confrontation situation a whip might and I say just might work depending on range and distance.

I had a friend who was once thought to be a moose calf by a sow and it wasn't until the bear heard the door handle on his truck click that she looked up. She slammed on the breaks at that point but in more controlled situations I guess it would be a matter of circumstances.

This is one of the reason's I do have some disagreement with Canadian hand gun laws but only in the North. Knowing a lot of trappers, the hand gun was an essential back up for safety when the snow mobile with the rifle was just too far away.

For us in the bush, firearms are not a right but rather a tool to be respected.

As for a whip, they make a good deterrent when you live in an area where bears walk through our school yards eh.

And just BTW....Happy Canada Day boys!!

Cheers
Kilgour

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:41 pm

Kilgour,
I suppose if you live in the bush, a pistol might make sense, though I would feel better with a 12 gauge shotgun or a 30-06 high-powered riffle myself, but I understand the need for a backup. But that's the only situation where I'd allow a handgun in my country. The rest of the world can do what it pleases, I'm happy Canada is the way it is. Happy Canada day!

ij1936 · Post by **ij1936** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:53 pm

It wasn't the bald-headed bear from "The Great Outdoors" was it?

Kilgour Trout · Post by **Kilgour Trout** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:12 pm

Hey Digger: I agree with and respect your thoughts, especially living in Montreal.

Not many rampaging bears wandering around the old city to warrant this kind of thing eh!

Mind you...the way it's getting after play off finals hmmm...

I promise not to tease further.

I think we would agree on much. The only thing I would say is that Basically you've got two very different worlds, one where nature is generally in check, the other where you can have over 100 face to face bear encounters In Red Lake where I lived "In town" every summer.

Since they cancelled the spring bear hunt in Ontario, the bears just weren't afraid of humans anymore. One guy last year literally got pulled from his tent and it took his friends hitting the bear with a truck to get it to let go.

Until moving back into Thunder Bay, we watched our kids play very differently. Not just for fun but for safety.

On the frontier, we had a Very different world. A world and an environment with it's -50 C's and real wildlife that you respected for it's ability to kill you but one I'd move back to in a minute.

There's something vital and real about it and every relationship is just a bit more important. It was and is kinda like the series "Northern Exposure" if anyone remembers that show. Everyone was just a bit different and we all seemed to fit.

Anyway...that's enough of my prattle. I also hope that I haven't offended.

Cheers
Kilgour Trout

ANZAC_1915 · Post by **ANZAC_1915** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:34 pm

Here is what you need (yes, .50 cal):

By the way, we have both bears and cougars around here (I live in the Cascade foothills). I've often wondered if I should take my new 8' whip hiking/mountain biking just in case.

Having the whip gives you another option. It may not be the best option though.

gi_canuck · Post by **gi_canuck** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:25 am

Happy Canada day!! Everyone!!
Yes, either way, I'll still carry my bullwhip with me whenever I head out into the wild.... It's still better than nothing...

Solent MKIII · Post by **Solent MKIII** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:19 am

I'd take these guys with me.

Man - I miss Canada! Haven't been there in years, but I definitly want to
get back someday - heck, I dig on hockey, Rush, and Bob & Doug Mckenzie.
I might as well be a Canadian!

Seriously, you guys have a beautiful country with some of the most spectacular
scenery and wildlife anywhere in North America. Have fun and be safe when
hiking out there in the great white north! :junior:

bluzharp · Post by **bluzharp** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:02 am

Jakk55 wrote:Bad, bad, bad idea.
Bears are regularly known to take numerous firearm hits and keep on coming so getting hit by a whip isn't going to deter them much. Any time you see a bear you just want to stay away, and move further away slowly and quietly.

Exactly, Jakk55. Be careful! I'm tellin' ya... I was camping with two friends outside of Rexburg Idaho, in an area called Pallisades. We got charged by a brown. Friend had a Ruger Super Redhawk .44 Mag with hard nosed hunting rounds. He missed with the first two! Now the brown is about 35ft. away, coming full speed. Third shot glances off side of skull. 10-15 feet away, a shoulder shot slows him down. I'm instinctively tempted to run in a panic. The 5th shot hit him just above the snout into the brain, and he dropped. My friend said it was a pure luck shot, since he was scared and had trouble aiming. There's nothing like the panicked feeling you get when a wild animal charges you. ps ---when I say brown it wasn't a grizzly, just a black bear with brownish fur.

Whip as a Bear deterrant??

Whip as a Bear deterrant??

Good comments

I agree.