On which Terry Leonard jacket was the Expo based?

CM · Post by CM » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:41 am

Was this Leonard's stunt jacket the one described in the new jacket write up from "order #3", or was it one of the others used? I understand that the jacket measured by _ (to produce the Expo) was pretty worn out - it must have seen some stunt action (not just used for double shots). I guess the point here is that order # 3 jackets were made to look just like the hero jacket, while the others floating about the film varied in small ways.

Does anyone actually know as opposed to speculation?

Thanks in advance.

CM · Post by CM » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:27 pm

Thanks _. I knew you'd come...

joeyofarimathea · Post by **joeyofarimathea** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:29 pm

_ wrote:Yep - I know...

This is an excerpt from the draft Temple of Doom jacket update:

...[of the original 14 jackets made by Leather Concessionaires] all but five original Raiders jackets have been [destroyed]... The hero jacket resides in George Lucas’ office at Skywalker Ranch. Vic Armstrong and Terry Leonard have their copies from the third order placed with Leather Concessionaires. Two other jackets made their way to Paramount [before preproduction began for Temple of Doom] – one was Martin Grace’s jacket from the third order [hero copy] and the other was a jacket in marginal condition that had Terry Leonard’s name written in its lining. Reportedly, this last jacket had been pulled aside in order to fit a Wilson’s jacket for Terry to wear during the truck dragging gag in Tunisia. The Martin Grace jacket and the “marginal” Leonard jacket (presumably the only surviving jacket from the second order placed with Leather Concessionaires) were auctioned for charity in 1984 by Butterfields in Los Angeles. Martin Grace’s jacket is lost, however the jacket with Terry Leonard’s name in the lining was located and examined in August of 2000 and was the basis for the Flight Suits Expedition as well as having contributed to the ultimate specifications for Todd Coyle’s designs in 2007.
As an aside, I've since also examined Leonard's hero replica. The differences between it and the above referenced jacket from the second order was minimal. The gussets were constructed much differently. The zipper length was slightly different. The collar stand and storm flap attachment was identical...

hello _,

i was wondering about the "aside comment" you made? let me be sure i have this straight.....are you saying you compared the one that terry personally kept from the 3rd order (hero copy) against the marginal one from the second order that had terrys name in the lining (and later used as reference for FS and Todd? after writing this i do believe i have it right?

thanks for reading,

Joey

joeyofarimathea · Post by **joeyofarimathea** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:03 am

_ wrote:Close... Not directly compared at the same time... About 7 years passed between...

ok now i see...thank you. but if the other one was auctioned off in 1984 how on earth did you guys manage to find it in 2000?

thanks, joey

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:10 am

joeyofarimathea wrote:
_ wrote:Close... Not directly compared at the same time... About 7 years passed between...

ok now i see...thank you. but if the other one was auctioned off in 1984 how on earth did you guys manage to find it in 2000?

thanks, joey

How do you think the information on this site was found at all?
Ridiculous detective work...

Its what this site was founded on...

For example...it always baffled me how Lee Keppler tracked down Fredric's shoe store....in the 1980's! How's that possible...

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:16 pm

_ wrote:As an aside, I've since also examined Leonard's hero replica. The differences between it and the above referenced jacket from the second order was minimal. The gussets were constructed much differently. The zipper length was slightly different. The collar stand and storm flap attachment was identical...

Regarding the zipper length, was the hero replica's shorter or longer? I love all these details!

CM · Post by CM » Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:32 pm

Do you actually mean the hero replica or the film used jacket the Expo was based on?

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:26 am

I'm referring to Leonard's hero replica _ mentioned.

CM · Post by CM » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:59 am

I guess if it was a hero replica it would have run the same as the one on which it was based - ie ending right near the bottom. Then again - this is a strange twilight zone of design and distressing.

Cassidy · Post by **Cassidy** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:07 am

_, exactly how did you find out that the original Hero Raiders jacket was in Lucas' office? That is, if you can divulge your source which I will understand if you cannot.

I'm curious as to why there aren't any photos of it since there's been dozens over the years of the stuff in his office.

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:35 am

Cool info _! Thanks.

Does anyone have any screen caps from that interview showing the hero jacket in the case? I'd love to see it!

Cheers,

Chris

Cassidy · Post by **Cassidy** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:39 am

Figures. That's the one release I didn't buy.

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:48 am

I just picked up a copy of the March 2004 edition of "Architectural Digest" on ebay which features George Lucas's Skywalker Ranch and office. Not sure if the Raiders jacket will be seen in any of the pics, but I thought I'd get it anyway. If it's there, I'll be sure to scan the pic and post it here. Hopefully the magazine will arrive towards the end of the week.

Chris

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:01 pm

_:
Your knowledge of this stuff never ceases to amaze me. thanks for the info and the taking the time to share it.
best
Canada

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:20 pm

_ wrote:Finally, prior to Bernie Pollack taking over as Ford's wardrobe person for CS, his "predecessors" had approached several vendors. They were presented with the original Raider's hero jacket to use under supervision for a very limited time in order to make jackets for submission.

I wonder if this means Peter from Wested had a chance to copy the hero jacket he originally made for Raiders. Or was he only approached after Bernie came on board?

CM · Post by CM » Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:17 pm

Satipo wrote:
_ wrote:Finally, prior to Bernie Pollack taking over as Ford's wardrobe person for CS, his "predecessors" had approached several vendors. They were presented with the original Raider's hero jacket to use under supervision for a very limited time in order to make jackets for submission.
I wonder if this means Peter from Wested had a chance to copy the hero jacket he originally made for Raiders. Or was he only approached after Bernie came on board?

That is an excellent question. Obviously a bunch of people were in a position to measure the thing.

joeyofarimathea · Post by **joeyofarimathea** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:33 pm

_ wrote:Pre-Bernie all the makers were "boutique" motorsports type of vendors ranging from northern California to San Diego and as far East as Boulder and West Texas. Peter was contacted by Bernie post Steven's house cleaning...

i guess we have two knowers of all things....unbelievable!!!

JOA

joeyofarimathea · Post by **joeyofarimathea** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:36 pm

yeah MR i guess youre right and just think Kepler was doing his detective work back in the 80's with BETAMAX and before fax machines (NO DVD or PC). Kepler really is a LEGEND, huh!!!!!

Thanks, JOA

Mola Ram wrote:
joeyofarimathea wrote:
_ wrote:Close... Not directly compared at the same time... About 7 years passed between...

ok now i see...thank you. but if the other one was auctioned off in 1984 how on earth did you guys manage to find it in 2000?

thanks, joey

How do you think the information on this site was found at all?
Ridiculous detective work...

Its what this site was founded on...

For example...it always baffled me how Lee Keppler tracked down Fredric's shoe store....in the 1980's! How's that possible...

junior · Post by **junior** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:44 pm

_ wrote: "Each of Bernie's predecessors were fired by Steven, and those efforts went nowhere. The jacket went back to Lucas, and Bernie used a different approach..."

That's odd. Too bad Bernie chose to make a high quality Cooper jacket instead of showing Tony the original Raiders hero jacket from George asking him to dupicate it.

Since Bernie mentioned him by name on the video, at least we know that Steve, if he ever wanted to, could probably verify through Bernie that this grail jacket is in fact in Lucas' possession. Of course, this has probably already happened, either by him or through another source.

Good work _ - thanks as usual and looking forward to reading all of the jacket info once it's ready.

junior

CM · Post by CM » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:52 am

That all sounds very plausible. Was the Flighsuits jacket cow or goat? And why does it look predistressed in the photos?

Refreshing to hear that to the guys involved, the Raiders jacket is nothing special.

Looking forward to the new jacket sections.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:46 am

_ wrote:Simply stated, neither liked the original, nor the remaining ToD or LC jackets. Ford and Pollack chose the same jacket for CS that Anthony Powell and Ford selected for LC...

Hmm, is it just me, or does it sound like perhaps Ford just really, really likes that Keppler jacket that was chosen for LC and KotCS? Perhaps Powell went along with the jacket that Ford liked during the making of LC, and later, during KotCS, Ford had some deja vu, picked out the Keppler again, and Pollack went with that as well? Just a thought...

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:10 am

Castor Dioscuri wrote:
_ wrote:Simply stated, neither liked the original, nor the remaining ToD or LC jackets. Ford and Pollack chose the same jacket for CS that Anthony Powell and Ford selected for LC...
Hmm, is it just me, or does it sound like perhaps Ford just really, really likes that Keppler jacket that was chosen for LC and KotCS? Perhaps Powell went along with the jacket that Ford liked during the making of LC, and later, during KotCS, Ford had some deja vu, picked out the Keppler again, and Pollack went with that as well? Just a thought...

Perhaps it has just survived the best over the years. Maybe the original screen-used Raiders jacket looks pretty bad now, kind of like the original screen-used fedora (would anyone have chosen that to base the latest hat on?).

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:08 am

Another off the wall theory of mine would be that maybe the Lucasfilm jacket just 'felt' familiar to Ford, as he OWNS a FS Expedition, and wears it often when home in Jackson, WY.....or so I've been told by locals there.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Mike** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:53 am

Alright…so finish the LC rewrite already! Or should I just coddle it from the posts here.

KIDDING!! I'm as much of a fan boy reading these as anyone else.

Thanks for the much needed distraction this morning.

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:04 pm

_ wrote:
Satipo wrote:Perhaps it has just survived the best over the years. Maybe the original screen-used Raiders jacket looks pretty bad now, kind of like the original screen-used fedora (would anyone have chosen that to base the latest hat on?).

Michaelson wrote:Another off the wall theory of mine would be that maybe the Lucasfilm jacket just 'felt' familiar to Ford, as he OWNS a FS Expedition, and wears it often when home in Jackson, WY.....or so I've been told by locals there.
I think there very well could be a little of both, with a twist I was saving for the LC write-up - but what the heck...

Lee and I struggled with this back at the QM. He sold two jackets, but Bernie swore there was only one like it in the archive inventory. Before Monty Berman died, he and I discussed his working with Anthony Powell and one of the items that came up was the prototype jacket Powell had brought from LFL. Powell would not let it out of his sight and would not allow Peter to take it apart. Just recently we confirmed with Ron Beck (wardrobe supervisor) that when shooting wrapped on Last Crusade, Powell instructed him to set aside several items for Ford. That complete list was:

The Zippo Lighter
10-foot hero whip
Hero gunbelt and holster
A specific fedora in which Powell had put his card in the sweatband
Hero bag
Hero jacket
Prototype jacket
Something the FS jackets had going for them - they were made to be worn for years, not just to survive an 8 week shooting schedule. So, technically, he has at least 2 Flight Suits jackets. I do understand that the prototype for CS was returned to the archives.

Ford joked about not caring about that "cr@p", because he was a very rich man, on his last appearance on Conan. I guess he did want the stuff, at least for sentimental reasons.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:06 pm

Personally, I'd never play poker with the man.

Regard! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:10 pm

Indiana Jess · Post by **Indiana Jess** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:42 pm

_ wrote: ... Powell instructed him to set aside several items for Ford. That complete list was:

The Zippo Lighter
10-foot hero whip
Hero gunbelt and holster
A specific fedora in which Powell had put his card in the sweatband
Hero bag
Hero jacket
Prototype jacket

He is a gearhead after all!

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:43 pm

..that is, unless he has a secret ebay account.....

Regards! Michaelson

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:48 pm

Maybe Calista likes him to dress up every now and then ...

whipcracker · Post by **whipcracker** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:12 pm

If Ford has an FS Expo, I guess that kind of gives it a new reason to buy one? Maybe inside, in some deep sub-conscience corner, he wishes that that was how original jacket should have been. And he has said that Indy is one of his favorite characters to play. I mean could any jacket at any price he wanted you know. I wounder if he wears it when he does searcha nd resue for the sheriffs dpt over there?

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:20 pm

"If" he has an FS Expo? No, he HAS one.

That wasn't a theory. That's fact. I remember when it was presented to him by FS.

He's seen wearing it at the Jackson airport when he goes to fly quite often.

That's another reason why his 'I don't wear that c!@#, I'm rich!' statement made me smile when I first read it. He DOES wear 'this c!@#'!

Regards! Michaelson

junior · Post by **junior** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:05 pm

Thanks _. I guess they just differed on tastes of jacket design. You know what? It would've been nice if Ford was wearing a Todd's Custom jacket in CS. Oh well. Thanks again for detailed input.

junior

whipcracker · Post by **whipcracker** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:17 pm

Michaelson wrote:"If" he has an FS Expo? No, he HAS one.

That wasn't a theory. That's fact. I remember when it was presented to him by FS.

He's seen wearing it at the Jackson airport when he goes to fly quite often.

That's another reason why his 'I don't wear that c!@#, I'm rich!' statement made me smile when I first read it. He DOES wear 'this c!@#'!

Regards! Michaelson

Thanks Michaelson for clarification.

I meant my :if" to be an "if-then" statment, "if Ford has one, then I'm going to get one"; maybe it should have been a "since-than" statment, "since Ford has one, then I 'm going to get one." Good enough for him, i.e. "Indy himself", then it's good enough for me

Anyway, it's way cool that he does have one. I think that the whole "i'm rich" thing s just a presentation. I think he's type that if he needed a new work shirt for the ranch he'd rather go down to the feed store in Jackson and buy one himself kind of thing. You know what I mean? I am only a few hours from Jackson, maybe I should hang out there a little more....

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:31 pm

whipcracker wrote: I think he's type that if he needed a new work shirt for the ranch he'd rather go down to the feed store in Jackson and buy one himself kind of thing. You know what I mean? ....

Sure do, and he's been known to do that too by folks who live in Jackson.

Regards! Michaelson

Treadwell · Post by **Treadwell** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:16 pm

Does "FS Expo" mean "Flightsuits Expedition"?

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:17 pm

Yes, it does.

Regard! Michaelson

TheMechanic · Post by **TheMechanic** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:36 pm

For those of us who have one, I guess we're Harrison Ford life accurate.

Post by **Mike** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:53 pm

_ wrote:I also need to get back to Tony with measurements...

YES you do!!!

CM · Post by CM » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:13 am

Since Ford owns and regularly wears an Expo and enjoys it, it's strange that G&B didn't make it to the Indy 4 jacket considerations. You wonder why Ford didn't say - "I have a great jacket right here... why don't we run with it?" Heck - his would even have been predistressed.

bobjones · Post by **bobjones** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:24 am

Maybe I missed this somewhere, but the FS Expo Ford has, what hide and color is it? Are we talking anything that the current G&B jackets closely resemble?

CM · Post by CM » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:12 am

Now THAT sounds fascinating.

CM · Post by CM » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:12 am

And I should also add that the Nowak jacket looks less cool to me than a standard G&B... I'm sure, good as the Nowak might be, it'd have to be about the same quality as a G&B, certainly no better. Looking at the Nowak side straps - they seem much less robust. I guess we'll know for sure in... 10 years?

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:47 pm

If they had decided to go w/ the G&B Expedition jacket for Indy 4, they would have only needed to make one jacket; it's that tough!

Great jacket!

Doeindy · Post by **Doeindy** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:56 am

I know hardly anything about the jackets, but what a great post. Thank you _ and Michealson.

I really enjoyed the read.

So Mr Ford wears a Indy jacket in his spare time? The man has good taste. Where did he get the idea from?

Maybe Mr Ford is a member of COW. (SAID IN A PARONOID VOICE): Its you Michealson; your real name is Harrison Ford is'nt it?

Paul.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:43 am

Uh, no.

Regards! Michaelson

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:59 am

We don't believe you.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:33 am

Oh well!

Regards! Michaelson

bobjones · Post by **bobjones** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:13 pm

I was wondering about something along these lines...in the G&B catalog, they mention that they took an original jacket form the movie, and had "3 experts" examine their copy and critique it, "perfecting" their version.

What did they mean by "perfecting" it, did this mean they made it more exact to the original, or more durable and wearable in the real world?

Who were the "experts" they consulted, and what changes did they make?

CM · Post by CM » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:37 pm

bobjones wrote:I was wondering about something along these lines...in the G&B catalog, they mention that they took an original jacket form the movie, and had "3 experts" examine their copy and critique it, "perfecting" their version.

What did they mean by "perfecting" it, did this mean they made it more exact to the original, or more durable and wearable in the real world?

Who were the "experts" they consulted, and what changes did they make?

Top men, Jones, they were top men...