Whips in Europe

Africa Jones · Post by **Africa Jones** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:25 pm

2 part question:

Can anyone offer experience of buying an 8 or 10 ft raiders whip from a European manufacturer?

And

I have an ancient Australian roo hide stock whip that was my great great grandfathers (who was an Australian stockman). Last time this whip was cracked was back in the mid 80s by my late grandfather: I would love to have this whip restored to it's former glory and wondered if anyone had recommendations on having this done, if indeed it is possible.

Thanks and take care,

Africa

gi_canuck · Post by **gi_canuck** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:48 pm

I don't know how bad of a shape your whip is in, but have you heard of Pecard leather conditioner? This thing is designed for restoring antique leather product... There are tons of info on Pecard on the Gear Care and Distressing section... I think it might be worth for you to take a look. Hope this helps!!

Kiscien · Post by **Kiscien** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:02 pm

Hi,

I can make you a bullwhips. You got exsamples of my job here http://kiscienwhips.knives.pl/gal_bull.html first four are roo hide. Please send me pictures off that old whip on kiscien@gmail.com. I will try to helpu If I can.

Regards,
Karol Bilecki

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:20 pm

I don't have personal experience with him,
but check out gio.

Check out the first post in this thread for more information about most of the whip makers on here.
viewtopic.php?t=24283&start=0

Africa Jones · Post by **Africa Jones** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:39 pm

Thanks for the replies so far: I'll try and get up some pictures of the old whip later. I'd put its age at somewhere around pre 1940. I think its an 8 footer and I remember after use my grandfather would chew salt into the leather. Looking at it now I would say the fragile part is the leather between the handle knot and main whip length. (Sorry, don't know the right terms.) However the rest looks pretty good and maybe pecards would bring it back to usable (?) life.

Africa

Kiscien · Post by **Kiscien** » Tue May 27, 2008 3:34 pm

Hi,

If i will have whip like that I think I will hang it on the wall. For me, if that whip is very dry pecard wouldn't help much. Whip has layers(I don't know how many of them has australian stockwhip, that you have) and pecard will moisture only a surface of top plait. If it is roo hide, it will moisture a bit more, but still core will be dry and week.

If I will have that whip I will keep keeper for night in lanoline, for GOOD moisturing. For rest of whip, I don't have any good idea, wthout replait it, or put a thick coat of lanoline, wax, glycerine and a couple others things, and let it soak that paste for night in worm. But that is only my own opinion. Do anything you want. I never had such old whip in my hands, and I don't want that you will destroy it beacuse I give you bad adwises. I hope you will give us that photos, 'cause i'm very curious of that

, and maybe someone will have better ideas then I.

Regards(forgive me my bed english, if I made any mistake),
Karol Bilecki
http://kiscienwhips.knives.pl/gal_whips.html

Africa Jones · Post by **Africa Jones** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:55 am

Here are some views of the whip:

kooniu · Post by **kooniu** » Wed May 28, 2008 2:24 pm

the stock whip is beauty, but full renovation is hard, the keeper see worst .It is integral part of body.In my opinion this work need unplait tong ( maybe all layers) and make the whip at zero - I did similar job and is harder than make new one .
maybe you make only new fall knob and put this whip on the wall ?

Kiscien · Post by **Kiscien** » Wed May 28, 2008 6:15 pm

Hi,

So first of all it is beauty... very very beatu. I would like to have something like that... good heavens...

But what about renowation. First easier part: fall hitch need to be moisture and replait, to be good lookin' hitch

. Put on keeper many layers of pecard, or something like that. Any other good leather conditioner will be fine. Could be lanoline too.

Second step could be, putting out the thong from keeper, and try to make a new one, under that knot on begining of thong. But it is hard, and rather not strong way. It will be good looking only.

After all you can clean it

. Take glycerine soap, and make soapsuds. Then, using sponge or soft brush clean it. After you will clean all you need, dry and rub it with leather conditioner.

Hope I help. And remember. Do not try to change keeper if you not shure of your abilitis to do that.

Regards, Karol

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:19 pm

I know this response is a bit on the late side, but seeing this beautifull whip, my advice to you is send these pics to a professional whipmaker with A LOT of experience, and I mean at LEAST 15 years, and ask them what they think should be done. Personally I think that asside from some re-conditionning of the leather, it may be a good idea to leave it as it is and make a good display for it. Perhaps contact museums and ask their conservationists what might be best for it (an air-tight plastic box...).

But yeah, seriously this is a precious heirloom and it may be best at this point to just leave well-enough alone. DO NOT try to crack or swing it EVER! It's too old for that. But do get EXPERT advice. I've been making whips for a little while and have nowhere near enough experience to handle a job like that...

Kiscien · Post by **Kiscien** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:30 pm

Hi,

All this operation can be done, when they are done very carefull. It will give better look for whip, and better hide preserve. If hide will dry to much there will be no good help for this

. Come on this is only a hide. I got some many years old bags, belts, hides and so on, this is the same if we are talking about materials.

Keeper is ruin at all. It can be change, but it will only look good. One shot and it will broke. It is option when you care about look of that whip, and you don't take this as a hairloom.

But I completly agree about cracking. And If somebody will try to give me this to REPLAIT or something more then cleaning, or replait fall knot, I will say no. At least for now.

WhipDude · Post by **WhipDude** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:17 pm

That whip being so old and a very item, I would agree with the others. Find a highly experience whip maker and have them do some repairs. Not change the whip, but maybe treat the leather and give it some good care but otherwise, I'd suggest no replaiting personally. Something like that is for display and messing with it too much could ruin it or bring down the value of it. Thanks for sharing!!!

Cracker · Post by **Cracker** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:48 pm

Africa,
You own a piece of family history. I wouldn't try to restore it, only preserve it. I wish I had a whip from my great great grandfather, but as far as I know, none of my ancestors owned or cracked whips. The most worrisome thing I see in the whip is the keeper. It would have to be completely replaced and I doubt as old as the thong is it is in any better shape. I would use Pecards, or the European equivalent, and let it soak in for a couple of weeks, then wipe it down. Hang it on wall and admire it, and think about who owned and cracked it. I have a whip made, I think in the 40's, and pecards did wonders for it, but I wouldn't try to crack it.
Your a lucky man, preserve what you have !

JMObi · Post by **JMObi** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:43 am

Africa Jones,

As someone who has worked alongside Aussie stockmen in the 80's (I was a jackaroo - a trainee stockman/manager), that whip looks very familiar to me, and I think I might be able to help you with which firm made it, if you are interested.

It looks identical, to me, with the standard roohide Australian stockwhip that the firm of RM Williams (based in Prospect, South Australia) made from about 1940 (I'm guessing) up to about 1975 or even later. After that time (thereabouts) a new maker was making whips for that company, and the style of their stockwhip changed slightly. Mainly, the TH knot at the end of the handle changed to a different shape.

I bought an RM Williams stockwhip in 1982, hoping for one like the one in the picture, but got the new type instead. The keeper on the thong incidently packed it in after a few short years. The new whips were not as good as the old style, imo. Your whip is the old style, and these whips were very popular with stockmen all over Australia. I've seen a photograph of an Aussie stockman from many decades ago who has this make of whip slung over his shoulder.

These whips were advertised in the catalogue as being 12 plait, with 16 plait (I think - I'm going by memory) toheti cane handle, with roo belly and redhide bolster, with a redhide fall and cotton cracker. Toheti cane does vary in appearance slightly I think from supplier to supplier and this cane looks identical to the cane on my RMW whip.

If the whip was acquired earlier than this then it might be from the same maker before the RMW company was established, or else the company is older than I thought, or it is a very very similar style but by a different maker. It is a great whip, part of Australia's and your family's history, and you are very fortunate to have it.

The only thing that makes me wonder if I'm wrong is the pattern plaited into the braid of the thong at one point. What is needed is for an expert in Australian stockwhips to step in here and comment.

VP · Post by VP » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:07 pm

Hey is Pagey still selling whips? His website isn't working.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:22 pm

Yes I am
viewtopic.php?t=31621