Whip or Technique

[techrtr]

Hey everyone, this is my first post here. Just learning how to use a bullwhip and about the differences between whips made by different makers. My question is, what's more important - technique or the whip itself. In other words, will someone who has a tough time getting a nice clean crack from a less than high end whip suddenly be able to get a great crack from a Joe Strain? Or, if you have lousy technique, it won't matter what kind of whip you're using, you will never be able to do much with it.

[Shagbd]

Coming from a complete newb,
Id say thats like asking whats more important in being a good marksman; being able to shoot well, or bullets?

point being, BOTH are needed i think

[Jonathan Jones]

I've been told that its harder to learn if you've got a crappy whip - it takes more effort to get a poorly designed whip to crack.

[Nebraska Brad]

Hey Techrtr,

I found that when I finally got a nice Morgan or Strain that it was easier to get good cracks but that I had developed some bad habits from working with rather cruddy whips. A low quality whip may require you to "muscle" it to get a crack and this will not be good for the high quality (and expensive) whip you will be getting if you keep hanging out in this forum. As the discipline of motor control teaches it is more difficult to reprogram your neuromuscular system once a faulty or inefficient movement pattern (motor engram) has become ingrained. My advice would be to by a nice quality whip if you can afford it and start learning then. Depending on what you are looking at spending an IOAB may be a good place to start. While I have no experience with IOAB whips opinions around here seem to be very positive.

-Nebraska

[techrtr]

Hey Nebraska,
I have a IOAB on order right now but in the meantime I'm using an 8 foot 12 plait whip. Can't really say what kind of quality it is because it's the only whip I've ever handled. From the photos I've seen though, it sure ain't no Morgan or Strain. I do tend to jump into hobbies with both feet so I wouldn't be surprised if I end up getting a Strain in the next year. From what I've seen, the quality is awesome for the price.

[louiefoxx]

A properly weighted bullwhip will give you a much easier crack...but you still must have correct technique to make the whip crack.

A while ago I met some "real cowboys" and got to crack their bullwhips. They had 8 plait swivel handle whips with no plaited bellies and it was a chore to get them to crack...where a bullwhip with plaited bellies and the weight out in the thong basically cracks itself (with proper technique).

Speaking of poor technique here's one of my favorite example of poor technique on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpZ0zz-AjA8

This shows the importance of follow through after the crack. The first and last cracks on the clip come back and hit him in the "goodies" because he doesn't have any sort of follow through.

xoxo

Louie
http://bullwhips.org

[TurnerME]

Techrtr...sounds like we had similar roads. I had several whips when I was kid and had a blast with them. Then many years later I decide I wanted to get into whip cracking. I ordered a jrzjoe from ebay (mistake). At this point I could not reproduce anything I was able to do as a kid and was very frustrated. I then ordered a superfine Joe Strain 8ft Indy, WOW is the best response. It is true they seriously almost crack themselves. I am still by no means good at whip cracking, I do however extract much more joy from having quality gear. I also should point out that I shortly realized I did not want to ruin my Strain Indy while learning and also that for faster tricks I wanted a shorter whip. I now have several cowhide whips from Gus Caicedo and I love them too. If finances were not in the equation I would have a whip or two from every quality maker. Here is a link to my whip collection. http://picasaweb.google.com/M.Erik.Turner/Whips

[techrtr]

Too funny! I've been working on the Coachman's Crack and quickly learned the value of wearing a hat after whipping myself on the ear and back of the head an couple of times. That really smarts!

[kooniu]

TurnerME you have beautiful collection - congrat

[Mannie Bothans]

I then ordered a superfine Joe Strain 8ft Indy, WOW is the best response. It is true they seriously almost crack themselves. Here is a link to my whip collection. http://picasaweb.google.com/M.Erik.Turner/Whips

May I ask what color that Strain is (the main body, not the custom knot) ?

[TurnerME]

Kooniu Thank you for the compliment.

Mannie Bothans my Strain Indy is saddle body with whiskey/saddle mixed in the knot.

[Kiscien]

Hi,

I think bad and poor whips has one (well... maybe two. Second is price ) adventage. It make you to use technique not strenght. So personally I think that most important is your technic, ability to learn from your mistakes and it will be great if you can analize your moves when you crack.

Why skills is more important than a whip? I can give you an example. I can take a rope attach fall and cracker to it and crack it. But someone who don't know how to crack the whip, can't crack with good quality whip and crappy whips. Of course if you have nice plaited and well balanced whip it's easier to learn how to use the whip. You have remeber too, that strong and loud cracking is't hard to master. Hard is make crack as loud or quiet as you want. You can make crack like a shotgun shot or you can just "pop" the whip.

Hope this help you a bit.
Regards,
Karol

Edit: sorry that I wrote pure besides poor whip. It was 2.30 am in here Poland and I was bored. Hope Gus can forgive me that mistake .

[Long John Tinfoil]

I would think that, as is the case for many sports, there is a level at which your equipment is good enough to allow you to develop sound technique, after which you are able to strengthen and extend your skills to extract high performance out of high-end gear.

For example, you can strap a couple of barrel-staves to your boots and slide down a snowy hill, but it won't have much to do with modern ski technique or performance - the jrzjoe. Equally true, however, is that top-level performance equipment requires skills that will make it extremely difficult for a novice to get down a hill with any degree of comfort.

Maybe a better way to put it is that there are a lot of folks who would love to drive a Ferrari or an F1 car (or start with a world-class whip) but a novice driver will not get the full potential from the machine, will likely damage it and poses a hazard to themselves and others.

There are whips available, like the IOAB, that you can develop skills on before moving up. The experts and whipmakers here can guide you in your choices.

[kooniu]

I agree whith Kiścień, for example ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKazhZSDXkE

[techrtr]

I'm actually kind of glad that I'm learning on a pretty lousy whip. I see that it puts a lot of stress and wear an tear on the whip and would hate to damage a really nice one. Should have a IOAB in a couple of months and hopefully by then I'll be past the really rough handling stage of my learning.

[Don't Call Me Junior!]

Too funny! I've been working on the Coachman's Crack and quickly learned the value of wearing a hat after whipping myself on the ear and back of the head an couple of times. That really smarts!

I know I've done that a few times myself drawing blood from my ear once and tearing a hole in my shirt another time. I agree about the hat and usually wear some sort of eye protection myself when trying new techniques. I'm not just trying to look the part but the jacket became a must after the hole in the shirt. Just curious, has anyone ever caused damage to their hat from a "mishap" with the whip? I mean one of the hats you would be devastated should you tear a hole in it i.e AB, Fed, etc.

[WhipDude]

Damage to a hat? I've never heard that myself. I wear my fedora often when whip cracking and have accidentally hit it a few times. Fedora's a pretty stuff and it would take a lot for a whip to damage it , if even possible. I would be worried unless you are wearing a $800 vintage hat, that you don't want to take the risk of maybe getting a few marks or scruffs on your hat.

[hollywood1340]

I'm actually kind of glad that I'm learning on a pretty lousy whip. I see that it puts a lot of stress and wear an tear on the whip and would hate to damage a really nice one. Should have a IOAB in a couple of months and hopefully by then I'll be past the really rough handling stage of my learning.

I used to think this way too. Until I spent time with a good whip and had to unlearn my technique. IMO if you should do it once and do it right. Spend money on a good kangaroo hide whip and spend some money on a good video or lessons. I think the Whip Studio on it's FAQ says it best.
http://www.thewhipstudio.com/faq.htm

[Canuck Digger]

techrtr,
That is a tough question to answer but I'll give it a shot, or at least my two cents (hardly worth more hehehe).

I think there needs to be a distinction made between a whip-like object and a budget whip. The first only looks like a whip, and doesn't even manage to pull that off very well... case in point are some whips on Ebay (you know the the one I'm talking about). With something like this it is extremely difficult to learn anything, much less good technique.

While on a budget whip, the overlay may not have a high plait count, but the internal structure of the whip should be pretty sound. What is very important in a whip is what's inside. A whip that has a leather core, preferably a plaited one, with a well-balanced handle, will let you learn a proper technique because it has the right shape and rate of taper and a good weight. Even if the overlay is only 4 plait, if the inside is well made, this kind of whip will serve you far better than one that flashes a high plait count on the overlay but with no guts inside.

If all you want is a costume piece, then get something that fills that role, but don't expect it to behave like a real whip. If you want something to learn on, then get a properly made whip. It doesn't have to be flashy or even screen-acurate, it only needs to be well-made, and there's a few people here who can do that for you. If you are just starting out with whips, then maybe buying the Ferrari of whips is not the best idea (I learned how to drive on an old, beat-up Honda and had the time of my life. I would have killed myself in a better car at the time. Now I could handle the high-end car, but it would have been wasted on me then).

An analogy can be made with the Australian stockwhip. Yes there are some beautiful pieces of art witha 12 or 16 (or even higher) plait count that are the princes of whips. But what's the point in getting a second mortgage to buy one of these whips if you don't even know how to crack it? You can get a perfectly well-made 4 plait stockwhip made of redhide instead of kangaroo that will let you develop and learn the basics without you being so worried you're going to damage the whip that you never take it out, or worst still, develop some bad habbits?!

Same goes for bullwhips. Get something good and well-made that you can aford, even if you have to wait a bit to raise more money. You can alway get a better whip later when you're sure you want to go on with this crazy passion!

Hope this helps.

Franco

[IndianaBogart]

I found that when I finally got a nice Morgan or Strain that it was easier to get good cracks but that I had developed some bad habits from working with rather cruddy whips. A low quality whip may require you to "muscle" it to get a crack and this will not be good for the high quality (and expensive) whip

I had this same experience. I had a couple of crappy swivel handle whips before I got my Caicedo whip. I could definitley get them to crack (which was a heck of a work-out for my right arm), but when I got my Caicedo whip I basically had to learn how to crack a whip all over again.