Some Westeds Made in India? Please clarify

IndianaGeo · Post by **IndianaGeo** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:15 pm

Hi,
Someone had posted in one of the jacket threads that Wested "off the shelf" jackets are, in some cases, made in India. Now, I recently purchased two jackets, one goat and one lamb. The lamb specifically has "Made in Great Britain" label in it, while the goat has a Wested label that says "Made by Craftsmen" but nothing about where it is made specifically. So..what have I got here? If, in fact, one (or both) jackets are made in India... then the one (or both) that is-are made there is going back. I expected British made and I will accept nothing less. Nothing against India, but I´m not going to pay British prices for something that cost pennies on the pound to make in India. Plus, I want to support local laborers. Can someone clear this up for me?

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:23 pm

It's been my understanding that if it just says 'craftsman', it's Indian.

If it says 'BRITISH craftsmen', then it's made at the Wested shop.

Peter, correct me if I'm wrong.

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:47 pm

You're right Michaelson.

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:30 pm

Personally, I don't care either way (though a UK made one seems nicer) but do wish they would tell customers this up front.

That said, I checked the website today and the OTR Raiders crunch jackets were sold out in all but one size.

Still no response from Wested about the one they sent me in error, but it is a nice jacket.

TheMechanic · Post by **TheMechanic** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:31 pm

Hey, Magnoli's jackets are made in India and I have 2 of them. The craftsmen there do some incredible work and they're fast too.

India doesn't necessarily mean junk. Like everything else it's the attention to detail and the materials and craftsmanship that make the difference.

I do understand your point though. I'd love to purchase everything locally and I usually do, when I'm able.

jacksdad · Post by **jacksdad** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:34 pm

I got a goat wested the other day and I just have a plain old wested label nothing else, but I noticed it has the cotton body,satin sleeves and the buckles,not the d-rings does that mean anything? just curious

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:50 pm

jacksdad wrote:I noticed it has the cotton body,satin sleeves and the buckles,not the d-rings does that mean anything? just curious

No, my jackets has the same, and they're made in UK.

lovemyfedora · Post by **lovemyfedora** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:08 pm

I just spoke with Gemma at Wested this morning and she stated that none of their jackets are made anywhere but the UK.

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:11 pm

My washed goat I got recently has only a plain Wested label on it, so it's made in India. However, the quality of the jacket seems on par with my other Wested jackets that are made in the U.K. For those of you who don't know, all those "special offers" on OTR jackets on Wested's site means these jackets are made in India and thus are priced a little cheaper than other OTR jackets (which are made in the U.K.).

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:12 pm

Kt Templar
Legendary Adventurer

Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Location: Western Spiral Arm of London.
Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:56 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

India. CM. India.

He was looking to produce a lower cost jacket and deliver them in better time. Looks like he did it, with some people now getting jackets in less than a week!

You can still have a UK made jacket if you go custom. Benefits seem to be twofold, customs have been coming out quicker too.

Oh really, lovemyfedora? Gemma told you that?!

Guess they need to tell KT! Here's what he told us a couple days ago when CM asked the same question!

SURELY Gemma misunderstood the question!

Regard! Michaelson

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:29 pm

lovemyfedora wrote:I just spoke with Gemma at Wested this morning and she stated that none of their jackets are made anywhere but the UK.

This is impossible: here's what posted Peter some weeks ago, about denim and ROTLA special offer jackets:

PETER wrote: They are made in India, more expensive to make but better quality and fit.

Original thread: viewtopic.php?t=29332

IndianaGeo · Post by **IndianaGeo** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:45 pm

Can someone post a photo of a Wested goat with a "Made in Great Britain" tag in it?

The way I see it is this: The Wested website says the following:

"2. Why is the price so reasonable compared to others?

Because Wested is a manufacturing Film Costumier and you are buying direct from the Factory and not from a retail outlet or store, so you cut out the middle man."

It also states: "We are aware of 'unauthorised' companies who produce copies of our Jackets. However, they are only copies and not made to the same exact specifications as our own, nor are they of the same superior quality produced by our own highly skilled Craftsmen."

Okay, so the price is reasonable because the middle man is cut out and they are made by their OWN craftsmen, and not someone subcontracted somewhere 3-4 thousand miles away. Clearly the two elements from the website expressly indicate the jackets are A) Direct from the Factory (which is located in England) and B) by their OWN craftsmen (i.e. employees of Wested). One would certainly conclude that one is getting a British product, made by Brits (okay, or maybe immigrants living in Britain), manufactured in Britain.

So I am now curious why there would be any difference in labeling between the "Made in Great Britain" label and the simpler "Made by Craftsmen" label. I am truly perplexed by this... Something is amiss if it´s the case that the jacket, if even some of them, are coming from India or elsewhere. These may be minor points to some folks, but they are not to me. I will give Peter the benefit of the doubt until such time as I get a definitive and honest answer.

Cheers..

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:57 pm

Geo, you have every right to be asking this.

If some jackets are outsourced (and that doesn't by itself equal a sub-par item) than simply tell people.

If I can get a jacket of similar quality for $40 or so less because of where it was made, I'd like the info to make my own choice about that.

Be up front about it and then there's no worries!

IndianaGeo · Post by **IndianaGeo** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:15 pm

Raider S wrote:Geo, you have every right to be asking this.

If some jackets are outsourced (and that doesn't by itself equal a sub-par item) than simply tell people.

If I can get a jacket of similar quality for $40 or so less because of where it was made, I'd like the info to make my own choice about that.

Be up front about it and then there's no worries!

Raider, Yes, that´s the way I see it too. I mean, when you´re (meaning anyone) is comparing and contrasting reasons to buy a certain brand/make of jacket, oftentimes a lot of different factors enter into the purchasing decision.

For me, one of these factors is where it´s made which, in turn, determines (at least perceptually) its quality and price. So if I´m faced with either buying a jacket in the UK vs one made in India and both are selling for approximately the same price, I will buy the UK one, mainly because I live here in the UK and chances are that that money I´ve spent will come back to me through the economic system eventually in some form or another. Sounds rather subtle, I know, but many firms pride themselves on, and market themselves, on just that same principle.

So if it´s the case that I´ve been bamboozled in some way, either intentionally or not, then certainly I will not take a liking to that. In any case, as I´ve said, I really don´t want to jump to conclusions here. I´m confident that things will work themselves out. Thanks for understanding where I´m coming from on this.

IndianaGeo

jacksdad · Post by **jacksdad** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:20 pm

are any of off the racks returns from wrong sized customs. My regular goatoff the rack like I metioned in privous line has some nice features.

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:32 pm

Geo, that "buying localy" is a big deal to lots of people; it was a factor in my buying a USW jacket.

To be honest, I'd rather have a UK made Jacket than an Indian one. Just like the U.S., the UK is hurting from all that cheap eastern labor too.

People may not be aware its often cheaper to send the hides and other materials to a place like India, have the items put together there then shipped back. The labor is so cheap there many seemingly crazy things occur.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:34 pm

jacksdad wrote:are any of off the racks returns from wrong sized customs. My regular goatoff the rack like I metioned in privous line has some nice features.

There used to be, and I'm sure that's still the practice when a custom is returned for what ever reason.

Regards! Michaelson

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:56 pm

The only thing that bothers me is that these jackets supposedly made in India are not labeled so.....in fact, they have no labels whatsoever as to where they are made. Doesn't every garment need to have a label as to its origin of manufacture? One thing I've noticed about the newer OTR Wested tags is that it now says "Wested Leather Co." only.......there's no longer "made by craftsmen" phrase underneath....which most likely means it's out-sourced.

YARVTON · Post by **YARVTON** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:44 pm

What I understand is this: Goods sold within the European Union do NOT need label. But goods sold in USA do require Country of Manufacture/Made In label. Many products just have a little "sticky label" attached. Perhaps there's some small stamp somewhere? Possibly Wested's US business is too small such requirements? Of course, I'm ALWAYS wanting to know.

Chewie Louie · Post by **Chewie Louie** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:30 pm

If it's true that my Wested ROTLA Special was made in India, then I'm really not too happy about that right now. Quite frankly, I feel misled and deceived. At no time prior to my purchase was I made aware that the jacket was made outside the UK. I had my suspicions when I noticed the jacket itself did not have a label indicating where it was made. Forget about it, I am extremely peeved.

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:48 pm

As far as I know, all Wested "Specials" are made in India....which is why, I'm told, they are priced cheaper than the other OTR's. My washed goat has an all satin lining in addtion to not having a "made in the U.K." label......dead giveaway it's not British-made.

ichnob · Post by **ichnob** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:53 pm

Wanted to check to see if the 80s cut Raiders jackets were made in India or Britain, but it looks like Peter is either out of stock or not making them right now since they're not on the website.

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:26 am

YARVTON wrote:What I understand is this: Goods sold within the European Union do NOT need label. But goods sold in USA do require Country of Manufacture/Made In label.

This is not true: goods sold in EU do need label! I don't know why Indian made Westeds have no label.

Anyway if your Wested jacket has no Union Jack flag and "british craftmen" label, then is MADE IN INDIA.

IndyFalco · Post by **IndyFalco** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:34 am

PSBIndy wrote:As far as I know, all Wested "Specials" are made in India....which is why, I'm told, they are priced cheaper than the other OTR's. My washed goat has an all satin lining in addtion to not having a "made in the U.K." label......dead giveaway it's not British-made.

PSBIndy, I'm just wondering...
What did your certificate of authenticity for the "washed goat" say? Is it the same as all the others? Does peter himself sign it?

Chewie Louie · Post by **Chewie Louie** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:16 am

I am really shocked by this revelation. Had I known, I would have ordered a custom jacket seeing that it really didn't cost that much more. I thought I was getting an Indy jacket by Wested, not an Indy jacket by Apu. They really should disclose that on their web site. As it stands, they've lost me as a customer.

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:27 am

IndyFalco wrote:
PSBIndy wrote:As far as I know, all Wested "Specials" are made in India....which is why, I'm told, they are priced cheaper than the other OTR's. My washed goat has an all satin lining in addtion to not having a "made in the U.K." label......dead giveaway it's not British-made.
PSBIndy, I'm just wondering...
What did your certificate of authenticity for the "washed goat" say? Is it the same I all the others? Does peter himself sign it?

My washed goat did not come with a certificate.

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:32 am

Chewie Louie wrote:I am really shocked by this revelation. Had I known, I would have ordered a custom jacket seeing that it really didn't cost that much more. I thought I was getting an Indy jacket by Wested, not an Indy jacket by Apu. They really should disclose that on their web site. As it stands, they've lost me as a customer.

I don't think it would as bad if Wested states that the jackets from India are made using Wested's leather from the U.K. Now if the leather used comes locally, then it really shouldn't have a Wested label.

Chewie Louie · Post by **Chewie Louie** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:57 am

The jackets made in India, shouldn't have a Wested label . . . period. This isn't like Toyota having a factory in the US making Camrys. It's no secret that Peter and Wested are proud of the fact (and rightfully so) that they created and supplied the original Indiana Jones jackets. Aside from one sentence on their web site indicating "WESTED also out sources and imports products for Film, TV and Promotional Companies and is able to pass the benefit of this through our websites" everything else would leave the average person to reasonably believe that they jackets were made in the UK, by or under the direction/supervision of the person who supplied the original jackets for the movies.

I have no idea, for example, how many ROTLA Specials have been sold, but do you think they would have sold as many if they web site stated "This jacket is made in India"? No way.

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:04 pm

Volkswagon has cars made in Mexico, and they're still Volkswagons

Herr Doktor · Post by **Herr Doktor** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:13 pm

Chewie Louie wrote:The jackets made in India, shouldn't have a Wested label . . . period. This isn't like Toyota having a factory in the US making Camrys.

I actually think it is exactly the same thing. They are paying to have their product produced elsewhere, which means they are entitled to label it with their company name. As long as it meets their standards, they are free to put their label on it. But that means they also have to stand behind their product. Cars, appliances, clothing...no difference.

I do agree that they should be more out in the open about which products are produced where. Would that impact sales? Maybe.

But in the long run, there are a few vendors out there that produce the jacket, so what's the big deal.

Suppose the next thing we find out is that Aldens are produced in Mexico?

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:24 pm

Well, I think part of the Wested appeal is that these jackets are made in the UK by the people who made the originals.

To me, that's not a big deal, just as SA is more important to others as it is to me. The thing that would bother me is not having the info up front. Simply say which jackets are made elsewhere and let the customer decide.

There's also no reason a jacket made in India or wherever isn't as good if not better than one made in the UK or the US. You've heard what they say about the first car that rolls off the line on Monday morning...

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:17 pm

Herbert Johnson's Poets are made in Italy: no one will say you this!

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:23 pm

nicktheguy wrote:Volkswagon has cars made in Mexico, and they're still Volkswagons

True. They're also plainly labeled 'Made in Mexico' in the door frame.

Regards! Michaelson

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:30 pm

I find it interesting that no one from Wested (Peter?) has responded to this thread and put to rest this whole issue....

Chewie Louie · Post by **Chewie Louie** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:53 pm

Herr Doktor wrote:
Chewie Louie wrote:The jackets made in India, shouldn't have a Wested label . . . period. This isn't like Toyota having a factory in the US making Camrys.
I actually think it is exactly the same thing.

No, it's not the same thing. It's no secret that Toyota makes Camrys in the US, in fact they are proud of that fact. However, Wested still keeps it a secret (at least they do on their web site where one places an order) that some of their jackets are made in India.

Also, the fact that you can get a quality product from India is irrelevant. I wanted a jacket made by the people that made the originals. That is part of the lure and attraction in wanting a Wested. As it turns out, I am now the "not so proud" owned of an Indian jacket that just so happens to have a Wested label affixed to it.

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:04 pm

Dude, I agree with you 110%.

My points were:

1) I have no problem where something is made as long as I know up front and have a choice as a consumer.

2) A quality item is a quality item no matter where it's made. I'm into a hobby where much of what we buy comes from China. Some of those items are cheap junk and some are so well made it's mind blowing.

Yes, part of the appeal of a Wested would be the UK made label.

My OTR came with a laminated certificate. What does this mean about it's pedigree? Either way it's a good looking jacket.

Herr Doktor · Post by **Herr Doktor** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:03 pm

Chewie Louie wrote:
Herr Doktor wrote:
Chewie Louie wrote:The jackets made in India, shouldn't have a Wested label . . . period. This isn't like Toyota having a factory in the US making Camrys.
I actually think it is exactly the same thing.
No, it's not the same thing.

Then we shall agree to disagree. No problems with differing opinions. Again, I do agree they should be more up front about it.

What "Wested" do you have? I'm in the market, and was going to order a ROTLA Special later this week. Feel free to PM me if you would like.

WeeMadHamish · Post by **WeeMadHamish** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:09 pm

Chewie Louie wrote:I wanted a jacket made by the people that made the originals. That is part of the lure and attraction in wanting a Wested. As it turns out, I am now the "not so proud" owned of an Indian jacket that just so happens to have a Wested label affixed to it.

A case of simple semantics. Unless Peter himself cut the jacket for you, unless he's employed the exact same cutters/seam(ters/esses)/etc for the past two decades it seems unlikely that your jacket would have been "made by the same people that made the originals." Heck, it's technically not even the same company.

If the quality is just as good, and the materials provided by Wested are the same as they use in-shop, and they're cut from the same patterns developed by Wested, and only the labor is outsourced, what's the real difference? It did not physically come out of their shop, so it is somehow inferior? Honestly?

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:25 pm

WeeMadHamish wrote:It did not physically come out of their shop, so it is somehow inferior? Honestly?

It's the allure that's different. It's like a Swiss watch made in Poland. Still might be a great timepiece, but...

IndianaGeo · Post by **IndianaGeo** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:40 pm

WeeMadHamish,
I think you´re missing the point. The point isn´t necessarily about the quality of the jacket, although that, too, comes into play. The point mainly is that Wested advertises itself a certain way--quality craftmanship, coming from the shop in England, etc. and wishes to benefit from those selling points against its competitors. This is part of the purchasing decision for many consumers, including myself.

I do not buy stuff from India if it´s presented (however subtlely or obviously) as being made in the U.K. ...period. I cannot see paying US $300 or so for goods being made where workers make $12 per week while the business owners get rich. Wested specifically says on its website that their prices are low because they´re a direct seller manufacturer. Would you buy your wife or girlfriend a knockoff Louis Vuitton handbag for $1,200 made by a sweatshop in China? I think not.

It´s about principle.

IndyBrit · Post by **IndyBrit** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:25 pm

oh dear,

It seems that this tread has caused a lot of debate, nay anger. Shame really I was looking forward to a happy meeting with Geo and KT when I make my visit to Wested.

My two pennys: I have a custom jacket, British flag and all. Very happy with it. I also have a an OTR, no flag but equally happy. It is Wested design and quality control and that is good enough for me. Regardless of point of assembly the brand still has clout. Others have already made this point.

Granted I would not be pleased if the outsourced jackets where produced in sweatshops using bonded labour or other dubious pratices.

I am going to Wested to but another OTR simply because I am looking for a better fit than my current OTR which will be donated to a family member who has put his name on it.

If the jacket is outsourced so be it. My time with Peter will still be a pleasure and my confidence in his product the same.

BTW I am British and we got used to overseas sourcing many years ago. The point here is is it good enough to carry the brand name? If yes and it is cheaper as a result then I am a happy camper.

Not all overseas production is suspect. Many factories pay good wages and acceptable working conditions. The publicity around those that don't has seen to that.

Wested is a small operation and I am sure that all Peter has done is find a supplier to get volume and in turn give us punters a good deal. If you want the flag get a custom and pay a bit more.

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:26 pm

Here's photos of my new, not yet worn OTR Wested. I was examining it closely and the stitching is nearly falling off around the zipper.

Is this the workmanship of craftsmen? Sorry, I'm not happy about this. :evil:

jacksdad · Post by **jacksdad** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:54 pm

so if you get a certificate it's made in Britian yes or no?

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:57 pm

jacksdad wrote:so if you get a certificate it's made in Britian yes or no?

All the Indy jackets come with the certificate. Any "special offer" jacket is most likely outsourced.

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:07 pm

My washed goat did not come with a certificate.

(I still love the jacket though

)

jacksdad · Post by **jacksdad** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:28 pm

what kindof leather is that? in your picture of not worn new otr?

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:18 pm

Yeah, its a new Crunch jacket. The leather is supposed to look somewhat worn. The leather is very nice, the stitching is not.

Herr Doktor · Post by **Herr Doktor** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:29 pm

I'm wondering if people are going over their "Wested" jackets with too fine a comb, knowing they might have been made overseas, looking/hoping for problems. Ask yourself (collective) this question and answer honestly...

Would you be scrutinizing your Wested jackets to this degree if you did NOT know/suspect they were outsourced?

My guess? Probably not.

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:51 pm

I'd want the stitches to be falling out of any jacket I just spent $300 on. LOL!

Dude, the stitches along the zipper are literaly falling out of this thing and it's never been worn. You don't need to look closely at it to see that. Don't matter if it were made in India, the US, the UK, or the moon - that's simply poor quality.

If I'd bought this in any store, or from any company I'd be upset and return it. Every jacket will have a couple broken stitches. They shouldn't simple be falling out, however.

Herr Doktor · Post by **Herr Doktor** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:00 pm

Raider S wrote:I'd want the stitches to be falling out of any jacket I just spent $300 on. LOL!

Dude, the stitches along the zipper are literaly falling out of this thing and it's never been worn. You don't need to look closely at it to see that. Don't matter if it were made in India, the US, the UK, or the moon - that's simply poor quality.

If I'd bought this in any store, or from any company I'd be upset and return it. Every jacket will have a couple broken stitches. They shouldn't simple be falling out, however.

Well, after reading this from you (posted last Friday here... viewtopic.php?p=439892&highlight=#439892) I'm curious as to when you went through this jacket stitch by stitch.

"The jacket is quite beautiful and the fit truly amazing (other than the sleeve length). It's much different from the USW cow in terms of weight (and I think the USW is a higher quality "lifetime" jacket). The Wested looks great but there is one slight blemish/cut in the leather I don't like. The stitching looks fine but there is no Union Jack as I believe these were made in Pakistan (while not a huge issue, a UK made one seems nicer). "

At what point did you notice the stitching "literally falling out," as it seems you didn't have a problem with them several days ago.

Some Westeds Made in India? Please clarify

Some Westeds Made in India? Please clarify

India or UK

Country of Manufacture

Re: Country of Manufacture

The Point