Nowak LE and Pecard Lotion

Mannie Bothans · Post by **Mannie Bothans** » Wed May 28, 2008 10:07 am

Tony Nowak has advised against doing anything to the jacket except wearing it, but I was just wondering if a) anyone knows what they did to the jackets on set during filming, b) what does a Nowak look like after being treated with Pecard products, and c) how much Pecard product (say, the lotion or the gel) would it take to treat the entire jacket?

I am thinking it might be better to go with just the Lotion maybe, I don't want to darken the jacket excessively. I am not sure if the Jell/Creme would darken the Nowak. Has anyone used the Lotion on a Wested Novapelle? Has anyone tried the Lotion (or the Creme/Jell) on the Nowak?

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed May 28, 2008 10:45 am

It wouldn't be any different in appearance than any OTHER pre-distressed cowhide we've seen to date. It would indeed darken the leather to a dark brown, and after time it will lighten up to a mahogany color. Nice, but once done, it's not reversable, so if you think it will return to it's original appearance after time has passed, it will not. I'm speaking from personal experience using Pecards jell and standard dressing on Wested and the old vintage cowhide Wings jacket they used to have in stock.

That said, you apply just a light coating and leave it to soak in overnight. If you're not satisfied with the color, add another light coating and so forth. To much is reversable, but a slow multiple application of any product is the way to go if you're not sure where you're wanting to arrive.

Regards! Michaelson

Mannie Bothans · Post by **Mannie Bothans** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:08 am

I won't want to darken a Nowak, but I will want to darken my Natural roo Strain whip. Leather_Loco said the lotion wouldn't darken leather, but it has been your experience that it will?

Michaelson wrote:It wouldn't be any different in appearance than any OTHER pre-distressed cowhide we've seen to date. It would indeed darken the leather to a dark brown, and after time it will lighten up to a mahogany color. Nice, but once done, it's not reversable, so if you think it will return to it's original appearance after time has passed, it will not. I'm speaking from personal experience using Pecards jell and standard dressing on Wested and the old vintage cowhide Wings jacket they used to have in stock.

That said, you apply just a light coating and leave it to soak in overnight. If you're not satisfied with the color, add another light coating and so forth. To much is reversable, but a slow multiple application of any product is the way to go if you're not sure where you're wanting to arrive.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:16 am

Lotion will not. It's water based, so you'll be fine with using that if you're wanting to keep it the same color.

Sorry for my confusion, but I was answering this question for you:

Tony Nowak has advised against doing anything to the jacket except wearing it, but I was just wondering if a) anyone knows what they did to the jackets on set during filming, b) what does a Nowak look like after being treated with Pecard products, and c) how much Pecard product (say, the lotion or the gel) would it take to treat the entire jacket? et al......

Where did your whip question come into this discussion?

Regards! Michaelson

Mannie Bothans · Post by **Mannie Bothans** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:34 am

Sorry, I'm not very good at being precise, and I'm even worse at sticking to one topic. It really is a joy to have finally found this forum; such knowledable experts and really, really good moderators. When people tend to ramble all over the place, like I do, a forum could easily become almost useless to those who need to find the information they need. Re: the whip, I was just thinking out loud... sorry about that.

BTW, how much lotion would I need to coat an entire (thirsty, new) jacket?

Michaelson wrote:Lotion will not. It's water based, so you'll be fine with using that if you're wanting to keep it the same color.

Sorry for my confusion, but I was answering this question for you:

Tony Nowak has advised against doing anything to the jacket except wearing it, but I was just wondering if a) anyone knows what they did to the jackets on set during filming, b) what does a Nowak look like after being treated with Pecard products, and c) how much Pecard product (say, the lotion or the gel) would it take to treat the entire jacket? et al......
Where did your whip question come into this discussion?

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:46 am

NO problem!

Well, normally all you do is put some lotion in your palm and pull the whip through your hand until the whip is coated from end to end.

I've never used the lotion exclusively on a whip myself, as you want to add lubricant to the whip. The lotion is a cleaner conditioner, but it's not really lubricating the hide like the whip requires in hard use. That's why the standard dressing is recommended.

Regards! Michaelson

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Fri May 30, 2008 4:07 am

I'd like to know what a Nowak LE would look like with a healthy helping of Pecards as well! Even though I do like the color of the Nowak, I'm afraid of going out in a light drizzle wearing the jacket without Pecards for fear of it getting ruined! Anybody "Indy" enough to take a chance on Pecards though?

I'm this close to buying a second just so I can Pecard it and use it as my 'adventure' jacket!

Btw, whenever I watch the new movie, I keep noticing that Indy's jacket looks so dark it almost looks like it was Pecarded, yet the behind the scenes make the jacket's color look almost identical to mine. I guess color-wise, it's up to you, since once again, the screen doth lie!

But really, I am afraid of getting this thing wet without Pecards, yet I don't want to put Pecards on it for fear of ruining the color! Arrgh!

Mannie Bothans · Post by **Mannie Bothans** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:39 am

Two days ago, Tony called me to tell me my jacket was ready. We'd discussed how I wanted the jacket weathered, and I asked for very light distressing. He told me the horizontal stripes we see on some jackets are not stripes, but just the result of the sleeves bunching up and they would fade and blend over time. He told me he distressed every single jacket he supplied to the production, but he always stops short of telling me what they did to the jackets on set after they received them. he always says something like, "Yeh, they got them wet, and they... well, i don't want to give away their secrets." So I think he might know exactly what they put on the jackets to make them look so "new" in some scenes, but he's not telling. He came close one time, but he didn't tell me.

Castor Dioscuri wrote:I'd like to know what a Nowak LE would look like with a healthy helping of Pecards as well! Even though I do like the color of the Nowak, I'm afraid of going out in a light drizzle wearing the jacket without Pecards for fear of it getting ruined! Anybody "Indy" enough to take a chance on Pecards though?

I'm this close to buying a second just so I can Pecard it and use it as my 'adventure' jacket!

Btw, whenever I watch the new movie, I keep noticing that Indy's jacket looks so dark it almost looks like it was Pecarded, yet the behind the scenes make the jacket's color look almost identical to mine. I guess color-wise, it's up to you, since once again, the screen doth lie!

But really, I am afraid of getting this thing wet without Pecards, yet I don't want to put Pecards on it for fear of ruining the color! Arrgh!

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri May 30, 2008 1:28 pm

castor, i truly believed mr. nowak when he told me to beat the living bageezuz out of the jacket so i've been doing just that and looking forward to wearing my jacket in the rain. wore it out a couple of times and it has no ill effects whatsoever. don't be afraid to wear this jacket out....it's built for the elements.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Sat May 31, 2008 6:18 am

Indiana G wrote:castor, i truly believed mr. nowak when he told me to beat the living bageezuz out of the jacket so i've been doing just that and looking forward to wearing my jacket in the rain. wore it out a couple of times and it has no ill effects whatsoever. don't be afraid to wear this jacket out....it's built for the elements.

G, I was afraid you'd say that!

But seriously, I do trust Nowak, it's just that the darn jacket is too beautiful to abuse!

However, you're right. After all, I suppose if it's good enough for Indy and the Terminator (on screen and off), as well as Bruce and Sly... Then ####, what's a little rain?

Post by **Michaelson** » Sat May 31, 2008 9:13 am

Mixed feelings on that, old friend.

When ever Indy, the Terminator, and Sly ruined a jacket, they were just handed another one for the next shot.

In this case, you only have your one.

Regards! Michaelson

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Sat May 31, 2008 9:27 am

Michaelson wrote:Mixed feelings on that, old friend.

When ever Indy, the Terminator, and Sly ruined a jacket, they were just handed another one for the next shot.

In this case, you only have your one.

Regards! Michaelson

Make that two!

But I see where you're coming from.

If only life were a movie, where leather jackets could go through rain, fire, gunshots, seawater without so much as a crease! In reality though, I'm reminded of that one episode from 'Flight of the Conchords' (if anyone watches that show), where Bret and Jermaine buy new leather jackets, get stuck in the rain, and said jackets end up two sizes too small...

TheMechanic · Post by **TheMechanic** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:31 pm

I'd love to know why so many people are so #### bent on slathering their brand new jackets down with gels and lotions and oils and greases? New jackets have all the oils in them they'll probably ever need and any good quality leather should last a life time with no special treatments.

Water will not hurt leather contrary to what alot of people think as long as it's dried slowly at room temperature.

Not only does Nowak advise against putting anything on his jackets but many other leather makers as well. Go to Lost Worlds and tell them you want to put some gel all over your jacket and they'd probably reach through the phone and strangle you.

Just remember every time you see a vintage 1920's or 30's or WW2 era leather jacket. They are still around, most of them are still serviceable and wearable and have seen everything this world has to throw at them and they've NEVER been treated with anything.

Sorry, I just never understood the facination with these gels and lotions, for new jackets anyway.

Louisiana Jones · Post by **Louisiana Jones** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:12 pm

I'm a big fan of leather jackets, and well just leathers in general. It's true that many people over-treat their jackets. People think they need to apply a dressing before they wear the jacket out. You can wear a new jacket for years before ever even thinking about what leather dressing to put on.

However, Mechanic, I STRONGLY believe that if you want a jacket to last you 20 or 30 years or "a lifetime", the leather will need to be conditioned at some point. All leather dries out, and most of those old bomber jackets you see from WWII have been conditioned at some point if they are still wearable. The ones that have never touched an ounce of leather dressing are usually in pretty bad shape.

My Langlitz and Lost Worlds have never been conditioned and have seen tons of rain (hard, pounding rain during motorcycling) and the leathers are beautiful. Too many people think getting a jacket wet will ruin it... not if it's quality.

LJ

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:03 pm

Well, I have three tanneries located within 17 miles of where I'm sitting, and every one of them has advised me that if you want a pre-distressed hide of any kind to last more than a few years in regular wear, you better treat it with something as the surface has been cracked and/or removed in the distressing process.

So, Mechanic, I wish you well with the path you choose to follow. As for me...I'll take the advice of the folks who make these hides and 'slather oils and lotions and cremes' on mine, as I don't want to be replacing expensive jackets ever few years just because I decided to ignore professional advice.

Regards! Michaelson

TheMechanic · Post by **TheMechanic** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:11 am

Well there's professionals who say to use lotions & oils and professionals who don't.

Pre-distressed hides are a different story, I'm with you there. If the original surface has been compromised then it will break down faster. However if you're buying a pre-distressed hide on purpose then I'm guessing you want it that way, so why would you go over it with lotion and possibly ruin the look?

I'm not a fan of pre-distressed jackets. New jackets will last longer and it's an adventure in itself wearing it until it has the real distressed look.

I'm not against taking preventative meaures by any means, but I just see so many people applying product far too often with too many different things and then complain about their stitching rotting away.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:35 am

I'm not against taking preventative meaures by any means, but I just see so many people applying product far too often with too many different things and then complain about their stitching rotting away.

I'm with you there, 100%.

Moderation is the key to anything, and too much of a good thing can backfire.

Regards! Michaelson

Mannie Bothans · Post by **Mannie Bothans** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:47 am

TheMechanic wrote:Pre-distressed hides are a different story, I'm with you there. If the original surface has been compromised then it will break down faster. However if you're buying a pre-distressed hide on purpose then I'm guessing you want it that way, so why would you go over it with lotion and possibly ruin the look?

That is my fear exactly. I have never used Pecard's lotion on any new, thristy, pre-distressed leather (like the Nowak) -- but I am very tempted to try it, just to preserve the current look of the jacket (as it gets even more "distressed" from rigorous real-world use).

The website advertises the lotion as a product for "use on newer non-glossy leather. A wax-free water-based formula, cleans, conditions, preserves and weatherproofs all smooth finished and vinyl coated leathers." By smooth-finished, do they just mean "not suede?"

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:09 am

Correct.

Regard! Michaelson

TheMechanic · Post by **TheMechanic** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:43 pm

I wonder if Pecards would make the pre-distressed "fuzzy" kind of leather look oily? I treated a beautiful russet colored leather jacket of mine with Pecards and I almost passed out when the jacket went from russet to dark brown. Luckily as the days passed and the product was absorbed it started returning to it's original color.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:47 am

TheMechanic wrote:I'm not a fan of pre-distressed jackets. New jackets will last longer and it's an adventure in itself wearing it until it has the real distressed look.

I'm completely with you there, although I personally try to AVOID getting any distressed look. It's just that since I got into this hobby, most of the Indy jackets nowadays are almost all predistressed... so it really isn't an option for us Gearheads post-KotCS!

TheMechanic wrote:I wonder if Pecards would make the pre-distressed "fuzzy" kind of leather look oily?

Well, when I treated my Novapelle with Pecards dressing, it gave it a very light shine, but nowhere near oily like a new jacket would look. However, the 'fuzzy' texture totally disappeared for a few weeks though, and after half a year, has yet to completely return.

Mannie Bothans · Post by **Mannie Bothans** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:37 am

Castor Dioscuri wrote:Nowak revealed that the studios use rubbing alcohol and water on set to further distress those jackets, though he doesn't really seem to recommend it.

YIKES.

No, I am NOT going to slather rubbing alcohol on my Limited Edition Nowak. Thanks for getting the info, though; it is very good to know. (It makes sense, since they were concerned with making the jackets look old and worn, and not at all concerned with preserving them.)

Castor Dioscuri wrote: Well, when I treated my Novapelle with Pecards dressing, it gave it a very light shine, but nowhere near oily like a new jacket would look. However, the 'fuzzy' texture totally disappeared for a few weeks though, and after half a year, has yet to completely return.

This is very good to know as well. I ordered some Pecard Lotion yesterday. I will apply the lotion to half of the leather on the canvas bag and then post pictures of what it looks like. 8-[

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:50 am

A suggestion. Try it out on a location you can't see, like the back side of one of the pocket flaps or inside the storm flap, then see what you think of the results after it's had all night to soak in.

If you don't like it, no harm has been done.

Regards! Michaelson

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:06 am

Mannie Bothans wrote:
Castor Dioscuri wrote:Nowak revealed that the studios use rubbing alcohol and water on set to further distress those jackets, though he doesn't really seem to recommend it.
YIKES. No, I am NOT going to slather rubbing alcohol on my Limited Edition Nowak. Thanks for getting the info, though; it is very good to know. (It makes sense, since they were concerned with making the jackets look old and worn, and not at all concerned with preserving them.)

Anytime! But I don't think this was ever an option for any of us hoping to keep our jackets past the Indy V premiere!

Mannie Bothans wrote:
Castor Dioscuri wrote: Well, when I treated my Novapelle with Pecards dressing, it gave it a very light shine, but nowhere near oily like a new jacket would look. However, the 'fuzzy' texture totally disappeared for a few weeks though, and after half a year, has yet to completely return.
This is very good to know as well. I ordered some Pecard Lotion yesterday. I will apply the lotion to half of the leather on the canvas bag and then post pictures of what it looks like. 8-[

FYI, Pecards dressing and Pecards lotion are two different products. Though I agree with the careful approach you're taking (and the advice Michaelson is giving), I personally don't think lotion will affect it that much. Not as much as the dressing, anyway.

I might be wrong, but my experience has led me to believe that Pecard's lotion evaporates pretty quickly, and any color changes is gone within a day (at most), while Pecard's dressing will 'sit' on the leather, causing the color change.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:16 am

That's correct, and I've posted that on many occasions, but still advise trying any product in an unseen area, as the discussion regarding this jacket has been based on the advice given by Tony himself NOT to apply ANYTHING to his jackets.

Even using the lotion, there WILL be a slight shift in color when you do it...you just need to determine if it's what you want to do. The lotion will indeed evaporate as it's water based, but there's still product residue left behind and it does effect the final look, so let's be sure it's understood that's where things stand before you do anything.

I've used both on pre-distressed leather, and there is a slight shift with only lotion usage. It lightens ups over time, but it's still there for a bit after application. I just don't want folks to think NOTHING happens when the lotion is applied.

It is, to use the phrase, 'the lesser of two evils'.

Regards! Michaelson

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:45 am

Michaelson wrote:That's correct, and I've posted that on many occasions, but still advise trying any product in an unseen area, as the discussion regarding this jacket has been based on the advice given by Tony himself NOT to apply ANYTHING to his jackets.

Even using the lotion, there WILL be a slight shift in color when you do it...you just need to determine if it's what you want to do. The lotion will indeed evaporate as it's water based, but there's still product residue left behind and it does effect the final look, so let's be sure it's understood that's where things stand before you do anything.

I've used both on pre-distressed leather, and there is a slight shift with only lotion usage. It lightens ups over time, but it's still there for a bit after application. I just don't want folks to think NOTHING happens when the lotion is applied.

It is, to use the phrase, 'the lesser of two evils'.

Regards! Michaelson

I stand corrected, and that does make more sense. Hmm, I agree that while lotion wil be the lesser of two evils as you said, the reason why I'd want to put anything on a new jacket would be to protect it for the future. Since I get the impression that lotion mainly rehydrates the leather, and dressing waterproofs the leather (and hydrates it as well), I'd personally be more interested in seeing the effects of dressing on a new Nowak.

And though I am a big fan of Nowak's work and of the way he handles us gearheands, I'd take his advice on handling his jackets with a pinch of salt, since I think he may be a wee bit masochistic when it comes to his jackets, especially since he recommends not treating it, and insisting they be abused... badly!

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:30 pm

Well, I don't see it reacting any differently than any OTHER pre-distressed cowhide we've seen and treated all these years.

It will turn dark brown at the beginning, fade to a nice mahagony color, then fade back to almost the original color after about a year. It will no longer have the velvet 'fur' feel of it's original state, but will be smoother in feel.

Remember, this leather is the exact same sourced leather as used to make the Wings collector jacket.

Regards! Michaelson

Mannie Bothans · Post by **Mannie Bothans** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:18 pm

Okay, my Pecard Products just arrived.

Here is a photo:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27236920@N ... otostream/

What you are seeing is the leather rectangle that was sown onto the canvas bag in which Tony ships all his jackets.

On the far left, I applied the water based lotion. On the far right, I applied the dressing. Eric also included a tiny sample of the shoe oil, so I said, "why not?" and applied it as the center stripe.

This tiny area won't be large enough to tell large-scale color differences, but since I have never used any leather care products before, I found this little application to be VERY informative.

The photo in the link above is the condition IMMEDIATELY after I applied the products. At this immediate stage, the velvety fur is completely gone on the dressing stripe. The velvety fur is almost completely gone on the shoe oil stripe. And the velvety fur is still discernable after a light coating of the water-based lotion. None of these are the gel. Even though the velvety nature of the leather is slightly discernable in the Lotion stripe, it is nothing like the leahter that has nothing on it. Immediately after application, it is still "flatter" and MUCH shinier-- (the non- treated areas look like suede compared to even the lotion stripe) but with the lotion stripe you still get that "if I rub it a certain way it looks like that carpet that shows every swipe of a vacuum cleaner" kind of ruffling of the velvet (but just not quite as much as with the non-treated areas). I wish I would have ordered a silicone-based product to see what that would have done to the leather.

Again, it is still way too early to tell how the leather will or will not be "changed" by these products, but I can tell you right now I will not be putting the dressing or the shoe oil on my jacket.

If you want to see a picture of the same scrap of leather without any products applied at all, it can be seen at http://www.flickr.com/photos/27236920@N ... otostream/

Mannie Bothans · Post by **Mannie Bothans** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:05 pm

Chewie Louie wrote:
Mannie Bothans wrote:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27236920@N ... otostream/
Very clever to use Pecard's on the bag's leather label. Did you use it on the jacket as well?

Not yet. All the photos of my jacket that I have posted on Flickr are of a brand new UNtreated jacket.

I am taking the advice of the Pros and seeing how I like it after it sets in. I just applied the products to the sample a few minutes ago and all three still have an oily and shiny look. I can't wait to see how much the velvety-ness "bounces back" (if any at all) after the lotion has dried a bit. If I like what the lotion looks like on the sample, next I will try it on the inside of the jacket flaps. I only have a 4oz bottle of the lotion (and I have no idea how much lotion it would take to do the whole jacket.

Jonathan Jones · Post by **Jonathan Jones** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:09 pm

Hey gang. About 5 or 6 years ago I bought a pre-distressed cowhide from Wested. I was (am) a novice when it comes to leather, and this jacket saw a lot of abuse with no treatment! When it was new it had a dark chocolate color but over time it turned a very light brown. Some pics I have of the jacket in (what I consider) bad condition:

Finally after looking at the jacket and shaking my head enough, I got with the program and acquired some Pecards. This is after 3 light coatings:

I'm pretty happy with the results. Applying a light coat each day allows you to darken it up gradually to your desired color. Michaelson is spot-on about the color - it turns various shades of Mahogony (depending on the condition of the surface). The texture indeed no longer feels fuzzy, but rather soft and smooth. I've also noticed the jacket is heavier than it was before, and drapes on me a little better.

Hope this was of use to you!

My Best,

Jonathan

Mannie Bothans · Post by **Mannie Bothans** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:26 pm

Thanks Jonathan. Did you use the dressing or the lotion? I am considering getting my jacket wet just to make it fit me better, but I am approaching that idea with fear and trembling, too. Get it wet and then use the lotion, or use the lotion and then get it wet? Do nothing and enjoy the velvetiness while it lasts, or treat with lotion and hopefully protect the pre-distressed leather better. Decisions, decisions.

Jonathan Jones · Post by **Jonathan Jones** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:42 pm

Mannie Bothans wrote:Thanks Jonathan. Did you use the dressing or the lotion? I am considering getting my jacket wet just to make it fit me better, but I am approaching that idea with fear and trembling, too. Get it wet and then use the lotion, or use the lotion and then get it wet? Do nothing and enjoy the velvetiness while it lasts, or treat with lotion and hopefully protect the pre-distressed leather better. Decisions, decisions.

My apologies, I should have stated that I used Pecard's Standard Dressing.

I've been caught in a few downpours in my jacket and I must say that I did like the results. Afterwards the jacket really seemed to fit better. I understand your fear though. First time I got mine wet I was terrified the jacket would shrink or something!

My Best,

Jonathan

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:29 am

On a semi-related note, I just wanted to warn you guys something with regards to the Nowak LE jacket...

DO NOT PUT SCOTCH TAPE ON THE JACKET!!!! (unless you want to further distress it...)

Long story short, I had a piece of scotch tape on the jacket shoulder, that when I pulled off, pulled OUT the color with it! In other words, the leather has an orange-ish base, and a dark brown color over the base that is the predominant color. (in other words, those distressing streaks are the orange base showing through)

Once I took off the scotch tape, the orange base was revealed, leaving a very obvious rectangle...

Anyone know of a way to fix this though? I was thinking of maybe some Pecard's to darken it, but I'm afraid it might come out looking too dark, and give it a third color: brown, orange, black.. making the spot stand out even more.

bullit · Post by **bullit** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:58 am

Is there anyone state side who is willing to drop in to Pecards hq and ask re the Tony Novac treatment/care? bringing along their jacket of course.

Edit; Ive been to a local leather dealer who has advised me, along with a couple of web enquiries and Tony Nowak him self not to put anything on it at all. Incidently Eric at Peckards has said not to use anything but the lotion or cream they provide.
Just my 2 pennies worth.
Me..im gonna leave it and see what happens.

Nowak LE and Pecard Lotion

Nowak LE and Pecard Lotion

Thanks, Michaelson.

New question: How much does it take?

RUBBING ALCOHOL!!!

Re: RUBBING ALCOHOL!!!

PICS!

Respondie to Chewie's Question

Just a thought!