Official Factory Produced KotCS AdventureBilt Fedora (Henry)

Piker · Post by **Piker** » Sat May 17, 2008 4:39 pm

So what is the Tennessee $$ trading at these days?

Regardless, if the raw fur comes from Canada, which you say is felted in TN, the felt will cost more because the fur cost more due to the falling USD vs the CND.

Long John Tinfoil · Post by **Long John Tinfoil** » Sun May 18, 2008 12:04 am

I could be wrong about this, but I think that the furs actually sell at auction, so its more a matter of supply and demand than of exchange rates.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun May 18, 2008 1:57 pm

it has the CS block, then is it considered above or below the quality mark of the FAB?

A correction. Our CS block is not available to anyone. It has a special feature, that I won't mention. Ken is using my Raiders block. Nothing wrong with it, but the CS block is DIFFERENT.

On the hat not being made in the US, the truth is, hat factories here won't bend over backwards for us. And do flips. On the other hand, the old factory that Marc was sent to, will do back flips for him. And are eager to do so. And, they produce the high end hats sold in various places, and pride themselves on the quality. The are like a small exclusive factory, which does not exist here. Plus, and this is a big plus, the best felt in the world is currently being made over there. This is a well known fact among hatters. And, only a few here in the States use that felt. If they do, they generally buy the low end stuff, which all feltmakers make and sell, but these same feltmakers have numerous grades of felt. So, you can buy their 10 dollar rabbit body, or you can buy their 75 dollar rabbit body. Both are rabbit, but you would be really comparing apples and oranges if you compared them, at least from a hatters viewpoint.

On my own felt, Canadian beaver pelts are sent to Europe from Canada. A factory there, processes the fur, and then sells the various furs to small felt factories like the one that I use. These small factories don't make their own hats, but sell to the custom market, mostly the western custom market. A few years ago they added a dress line, which Art and I use. The factory that I use has been making felt since the early 20th century. And were called upon to make bodies for the old Stetson, Resistol, Dobbs, Knox, the whole gamut of old, now defunct hat companies. They still use the same equipment.

On the other hand, Marc's body supplier processes their own fur, in a separate factory, located close by the felt factory. Hence forth, they have more control in regards to quality, because of them processing their own pelts. And this is the reason, along with hatters actually running these factories, that Portugal is considered the best felt in the world, today, 2008. MBA's don't run these factories, like here in the States. That makes a huge difference. With that said, I am very pleased that my own felt factory is run by old feltmakers, not MBAs. It has to be a rarity these days.

One last thing. If and when the dollar gets strong again, prices will plummet on a factory AB, as well as with Marc's handmade hats. By just the exchange rate. But, being the skeptic that I am, I don't see that happening anytime soon. Unless, we get folks in political office that does not bow down to corporate America, and big money. And folks that will bring back America making their own consumer goods. (the stockholders in these oursourced corporations, are doing well though, at expense of the middle class)

I generally have to buy a packet of needles each week. All, regardless of brand, including Singer, are made in China. Unlike the old sewing needles, these will break, and I break several each day. I had to literally go to ebay, and buy up sewing needles made in England, vintage ones. Instead of being cheap steel, these are good ones, and I have yet to break one. They will bend before they break, unlike Chinese needles. Off topic, yeah, but I stay ill at what is sold now to us, that we used to make, and what we get is cheaper sure, but the stuff is also shoddy. In the long run, they are not more ecomomical to use, but more expensive because you have to re buy them!!

China will be replacing Hatco in the years to come. I don't doubt that. But, China will never replace the custom hat market, at least the western custom market. Most of those customers would never buy a western hat from a guy named Hop Sing. Not being polictically incorrect here, just stating a fact.

I don't know how this factory hat Marc is working on will turn out. Who knows? He may not be pleased with what they can do, and then there will never be a factory AB. That does not bother me at all. The original goal was to offer a fast turnaround factory AB, at a really good price, with it being one of the highest quality factory hats in the world. That is still the goal, and I don't know how that will work out, or if it will work out. But, you can be sure, that the AB name won't be on this hat, unless it is better than other factory hats. When Marc first started talking to these folks, he was sure that he could have it made, and sell it for less than 200 bucks. And he could, if it were just to be another factory hat, but with the AB name of the sweatband. But, once he started being really specific on construction, and materials, the cost of making such a hat started to climb. If it takes the factory more labor to make this hat, it is gonna cost. A no brainer. It would be rather easy to go with their stock hat, using our blocks, and get the typical factory hat from them. But, personally, I won't give my blessings on this sort of hat. If the AB factory hat cannot be special, I want nothing to do with it. And I am sure Marc feels the same.

What I ran into, and Marc to some extent is the reluctance of hat factories to make you something special. We always felt our handmade hats were special, and we feel the same about any factory hat that has the AB name on it. Now granted, If we had a half a million bucks, we could get ANYONE to do this for us. But we are not rich, far from it. So, you have to work with the guys who see it from our view, and so far, only the guys Marc is dealing with has the same outlook. This guys loves the idea of an exceptional factory hat, as he hates the lower quality ones he has to make for other hat retailers. But, to stay in business, he is forced into doing so. As I said, he seems as excited about this premium factory AB as we are. That give me a bit of optimism, but the fat lady ain't sang yet....Fedora

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Sun May 18, 2008 2:45 pm

Amen to all you said my friend!!! You said it all and well and this is exactly how we both feel about this.

Regards,

Marc

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Sun May 18, 2008 5:19 pm

So if all goes well with the prototype you should be recieving next week, will that mean that the Henry will go into production within the next week, copuple of weeks, month, or longer? I have no issue waiting another month or so, that way I can get some more cash together to pick this up. Also, Fedora,

. Not to get politicial, but you hit the nail on the head with that. If the US wants to keep the Dollar from falling even more, we really need to stop outsourcing and importing and do it like they did in the old days...make our own stuff and sell that to the rest of the world. I don't have too big an issue with big corporations, just as long as they keep everything American. Nothing beats small business though, as AB has come to show.

Dave

Mr. Z · Post by **Mr. Z** » Sun May 18, 2008 6:31 pm

Thanks for breaking it all down for us Marc and Steve. It all sounds very cool.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Mon May 19, 2008 7:30 am

I just received the prototype of the Henry and I'm impressed BIG time!!!

The felt is REALLY nice and the sweatband the best I've ever seen on a factory made hat. Of course a few details have to be dealt with yet but for a PROTOTYPE this hats makes me very, very happy!!!

Here are some (very) quickly taken pictures:

Awesome sweatband here. Really great leather quality:

And of course the stitching holding the sweatband in place are ABOVE the brim break as requested

Again: this is a PROTOTYPE and I'm well aware that a few details needs to be done yet. However even this prototype is something I'd be proud to wear.

Regards,

Marc

IndyBrit · Post by **IndyBrit** » Mon May 19, 2008 7:42 am

Marc,

The Henry looks wonderful. Looking forward to the day when this AB becomes available. Worthy of the brand.

Kilgour Trout · Post by **Kilgour Trout** » Mon May 19, 2008 7:46 am

Marc: You are absolutely right

This is an amazing Prototype!
The block shape and the brim, plus the detailed points you've made sure
of really set this apart from your average or better lid.

I know that from here it can only get "Even better"

As an Indy fan and friend, I just want to say "Thank you $\:D/$ ."
Because as I've been following this over the months, I've been thinking, there could be "No one" better to be doing this. Your eye for detail is unsurpassed.

Again...Very well done Marc.

Cheers or should I say "Three Cheers"
Kilgour Trout

Jones Boy · Post by **Jones Boy** » Mon May 19, 2008 9:45 am

Wow that looks pretty impressive right off the bat. I would wear that lid proudly anywhere.

Good work Marc.

Cheers
Jonesy

IndianaSolo · Post by **IndianaSolo** » Mon May 19, 2008 9:55 am

Dude could just be the perfect raiders hat!!

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Mon May 19, 2008 10:32 am

Where do I order one lol

Cheers

Mark Brody · Post by **Mark Brody** » Mon May 19, 2008 10:44 am

That looks awesome! Will it be offered in grey as well, or will the Henry be limited to brown?

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Mon May 19, 2008 10:54 am

Ok, I wanted one, but wasn't sure if I was going to pick it up. Now, I am sold. I have been following the development of the Henry for months and am glad that all the hard work you have put into it is finally paying off. I would wear it just like that. The Henry is THE BEST factory produced hat I have ever seen, and it is just the prototype. I tip my hat to you Marc. Let us know when we can begin pre-ordering, I want to get one from the first batch.

Dave

mufflowne · Post by **mufflowne** » Mon May 19, 2008 10:58 am

Awesome Marc! Looking forward to wearing one of these lids!

Drhenryindianajones · Mon May 19, 2008 11:21 am

hi guys the hat looks awesome there isnt another factory hat at that quality it still has the ab handmade look to it indy himself would be proud!!!!
when it comes to ordering one i wanted to know if it will come open crowned the only reason im asking is i only have use of one hand since the stroke so shaping would be an issue so if theres an option to get this hat pre shaped in a raiders style preferably i would be really interested

also marc and fedora i have pm`d both of you and emailed you both this week and not had a reply any chance one of you could drop me an email to confirm you have recieved my messages

regards and hats off to your creation
chris

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Mon May 19, 2008 11:30 am

It was written somewhere in this forum that the hat would be sold open crown. I can see why it is a problem for you but I am sure that either Steve or Marc could bash it for you. I am happy that it is coming open crown because I also want a Raiders bash. I'll probably give it a SOC bash. I'm reserving Steve's handmade AB for the Crystal Skull bash. Only Steve and Marc should be ever bash those.

Dave

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Mon May 19, 2008 11:38 am

Marc wrote:Hmmm.... open crown seems to be a nice idea. We haven't discussed how to have them creased yet to be honest. As Steve said, this is in a very early stage yet.

I imagine Steve and Marc have been doing it for so long that they could probably bash the hat by hand in 30 seconds flat before dropping it into its shipping box.
Are you kidding??? - Takes bloody 2 minutes!!!

Regards,

Marc

Here you go.

Dave

Drhenryindianajones · Mon May 19, 2008 11:43 am

now that was a fast responce lol thanks guys

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Mon May 19, 2008 12:15 pm

That's a handsome hat, Marc. The sweat looks great.

JerseyJones · Post by **JerseyJones** » Mon May 19, 2008 12:22 pm

Great prototype Marc. Well done !

I may need one of those myself.

Best of luck !

Ken

IndianaLV · Post by **IndianaLV** » Mon May 19, 2008 12:56 pm

Marc my friend, that hat looks just GORGEOUS!
If you keep the quality on this level, I'm sure that I'm going to order one sooner or later. I never thought it would look that good.

regards,
Lukas

WeeMadHamish · Post by **WeeMadHamish** » Mon May 19, 2008 3:38 pm

Quality looks great, but it looks kind of tall.

myamoebafriend · Post by **myamoebafriend** » Mon May 19, 2008 3:59 pm

Amazing!

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon May 19, 2008 4:06 pm

Quality looks great, but it looks kind of tall.

I agree, it may be just a bit too tall, but I would have to see it on a few heads to make sure. I am sure Marc can have it made shorter, if indeed it is too tall. I will hold my appraisel until AFTER I hold the real deal, post proto type in hand. Hard to really say just how good it is, until I can examine it.

But Marc knows his hats and felts and if he says it is good, I certainly believe every word of it.

If this does work out, I think AB, Ron, and Ken will pretty much have all price points covered. A team of hat guys in place to provide everyone with a hat they can afford. And any of these are great Indy fedoras. Boy, we have come a long way from when I first joined Indyfan quite a few years ago! Who would have thunk' it.

I will have their links on my site to give folks looking for an Indy fedora many choices. I think I already have Hatsdirect and Art there. Perhaps we can take ALL of DP's business?

Fedora

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Mon May 19, 2008 4:38 pm

That would be the day! If we could all bring down DP. You know you've won when Disney is selling the AB Henry.

Dave

Risu · Post by **Risu** » Mon May 19, 2008 4:54 pm

Marc, would it be possible or were you planning on showing us a pic or two of the prototype hat bashed in SOC? That loose pinch doesn't give a very good idea of what the final product may look like.

Piker · Post by **Piker** » Mon May 19, 2008 6:35 pm

Neato!

Wrightknife · Post by **Wrightknife** » Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 pm

Super Hat! Something I may buy my 24 year old son to get him hooked

!

Bardoon · Post by **Bardoon** » Mon May 19, 2008 8:03 pm

Impressive!!!!! Good to see all the positive critiques and responses here on COW as well!!!!

It does appear a little tall...but I'm not an expert like Marc and Steve and some of ther seasoned vets here.

I will definitely be standing in line!

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Mon May 19, 2008 8:07 pm

If a hat is too tall, couldn't you just give it a deeper center dent to make it appear slightly shorter. After reading about the height I looked it over again and it does seem a bit tall, but it is a prototype.

Dave

toobacat · Post by **toobacat** » Mon May 19, 2008 8:41 pm

That looks really nice. I want one!

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Mon May 19, 2008 9:32 pm

DR Ulloa wrote:If a hat is too tall, couldn't you just give it a deeper center dent to make it appear slightly shorter. After reading about the height I looked it over again and it does seem a bit tall, but it is a prototype.

Dave

True, but the deeper the center dent, the more the dreaded taper rears it's ugly head...

Taper

rrhanselka · Post by **rrhanselka** » Mon May 19, 2008 9:56 pm

Great job, Marc.

I like it just the way it is. The crown isn't too tall for me. I especially like the way the back brim isflattened out and not curled up. Just my preference.

I said it before I sawit, and I'll say it again,"I WANT ONE."

Thanks Again
Randall

Mr. Z · Post by **Mr. Z** » Mon May 19, 2008 10:25 pm

Fedoraman wrote:True, but the deeper the center dent, the more the dreaded taper rears it's ugly head...

Taper

The taper is the top of the crown, correct?

: I thought the prototype looked a tad tall too, but what do I know?

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Tue May 20, 2008 12:21 am

Taper occurs when the felt on the crown begins to assume its cone-like shape. Obviously there are degrees of taper, some more severe than others. A fedora with really bad taper will have the crown look like / \. Hope hat helps Z.

Dave

DanielJones · Post by **DanielJones** » Tue May 20, 2008 2:35 am

Marc, all I can say is wowwie wow, wow, wow! Very sharp looking prototype indeed! Fantastic job by your factory. Pass on the good word.

Cheers!

Dan

Indiana Strones · Post by **Indiana Strones** » Tue May 20, 2008 2:57 am

I would prefer a little shorter crown, but I like this very much. I'm ready to order anyway.

darthjones · Post by **darthjones** » Tue May 20, 2008 5:59 am

No great insight here but I just HAD to chime in. That "Henry" looks like such a superb hat... WOW. It would be nice to take all of DP's business away because they are obviously in it for the $$$ at the expense of everything else. Time for their chickens to come home and roost.

Piker · Post by **Piker** » Tue May 20, 2008 8:31 am

My 2 cents: The Tall Crown is Great!

What colors are you planning to offer for the Henry?

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Tue May 20, 2008 9:05 am

I think an offering in gray would be great, maybe even black.

Dave

Modern Jones · Post by **Modern Jones** » Tue May 20, 2008 9:24 am

The height of that block has Raiders written all over it!

Marc, you put a LC kind of bash in there which is why I think a few Gearheads think it's too tall. But for a ROTLA lid, it looks like the perfect height.

And for a prototype, wow! I know there will be some fit and finish details, (namely the ribbon and bow) but hats off to you!

Try a ROTLA bash on there and see what happens?

MJ

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Tue May 20, 2008 9:28 am

That may be why I thought it looked a little tall. Even on Marc's head, though, it does seem a tad on the tall side. It is nothing drastic, but there. I would still buy it just like that.

Dave

Georgia Jones · Post by **Georgia Jones** » Tue May 20, 2008 9:48 am

Since this would be a factory hat, I assume their would be multiple vendors or at least a stock supply here in the states to ease the shipping cost?

Irish Jones · Post by **Irish Jones** » Tue May 20, 2008 10:15 am

Holy smokes Marc, that is beautiful!! The Henry is going to be my first Indy Fedora

Cheers!
~Kevin

www.kevindoyleart.com

JerseyJones · Post by **JerseyJones** » Tue May 20, 2008 10:21 am

Fedora wrote:
Quality looks great, but it looks kind of tall.
I agree, it may be just a bit too tall, but I would have to see it on a few heads to make sure. I am sure Marc can have it made shorter, if indeed it is too tall. I will hold my appraisel until AFTER I hold the real deal, post proto type in hand. Hard to really say just how good it is, until I can examine it.

But Marc knows his hats and felts and if he says it is good, I certainly believe every word of it.

If this does work out, I think AB, Ron, and Ken will pretty much have all price points covered. A team of hat guys in place to provide everyone with a hat they can afford. And any of these are great Indy fedoras. Boy, we have come a long way from when I first joined Indyfan quite a few years ago! Who would have thunk' it. I will have their links on my site to give folks looking for an Indy fedora many choices. I think I already have Hatsdirect and Art there. Perhaps we can take ALL of DP's business? Fedora

I thank Steve for the compliment, and I agree with Steve that we are steadily taking a stand again crummy hats ! Huzzah !

The best part is that all of these hatters are able to offer things besides just Indy hats too, eg. Steve's c-crowned beauty on his website opening page, Camptown's C-Crowned, trim-brimmed gray, Ron's wide variety of stingys, homburgs et. al. at prices that let folks experiment with out going broke. This bodes well for the future of hat wearing and hat making on a medium (like Camptown, Hatsdirect) to handmade (Steve, Marc, Art, etc, )scale.

My congratulations to all of my colleagues for work well done. I am honored to be in your company.

Deepest regards,

Ken

toobacat · Post by **toobacat** » Tue May 20, 2008 11:48 am

I really like the crown height, especially from the side profile. I would not hesitate to buy one proportioned like that.

Mr. Z · Post by **Mr. Z** » Tue May 20, 2008 12:01 pm

toobacat wrote:I really like the crown height, especially from the side profile. I would not hesitate to buy one proportioned like that.

It's refreshing to hear that, as my Peter Brothers is about that height, and I feel a tad self-conscious in it.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Tue May 20, 2008 1:37 pm

Looks great, I can't wait to spend some money that I don't have on it.

YARVTON · Post by **YARVTON** » Tue May 20, 2008 2:02 pm

While affordability may be in the checkbook of the beholder, "quality" certainly costs more. Of course, the production quality can't be judged until the product actually arrives, other hats have been evaluated. So I might ask: If Stetsons are thought to be so lousy at $100+ then why shouldn't any higher-quality product cost much or considerably more?

I can't put my fingers on Mr. Peterman's book, but as I recall from his tale of the "Gatsby" shirt, a great shirtmaker was engaged and superb fabric found, however the estimated price was about 30% more than expected. Options were: get cheaper fabric and/or find a different shirtmaker -- both rejected. So only option was to raise price and hope for the best. It worked in this case, at least.

Official Factory Produced KotCS AdventureBilt Fedora (Henry)

Wow!

Official Factory Produced KotCS AdventureBilt Fedora (Henry)

Prototype Henry