Bullwhip Damage by Smooth Floors?

[Castor Dioscuri]

I've recently acquired two Joe Strain bullwhips, and in the past couple of weeks, have taken them to the gym's tennis/wrestling room to practice. The bullwhips started in perfect condition, so just a disclaimer that any damage done to them was in all honesty my own darn fault!

As I've never handled a bullwhip before those two, the 10 footer served as my 'training' whip, which meant a couple of bad, newbie "floor slams" (just under a dozen) before figuring out how to crack it.

My question, though, is in two parts.
The first:

I've noticed that most people here say that whipping on smooth surfaces should be alright for a bullwhip as opposed to abrasive surfaces. The gym floors are smooth tiled, so I don't think that's the problem.

However, I believe that I'm starting to notice more and more kinks in the bullwhip (instead of a nice straight curve, it has spots where it has a soft, 'V' shape).

Also, I believe that the thong has begun acquiring some 'rough' spots instead of being smooth. In certain places, the thong also looks as though it is getting bruised. You know the distressing on leather jackets? The same whitish marks are starting to appear on certain braids on the thong. And on certain other parts, they are starting to feel 'scratchy', for lack of a better word, and looks almost as if they began a slow, 'melting' process.

After spending close to a grand on what I had hoped was my first and final venture into the realm of bullwhips, this is certainly less than comforting! So I must ask a rather stupid question: Is this bad?

(Here are a couple pictures of the whips... Not the best pictures, but it gives you an idea...)

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t167 ... MG3173.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t167 ... MG3174.jpg

Now the second part is this:

Yet another thing I noticed is that the first two sessions I tried cracking, the whip went off like a charm! It practically cracked itself! I applied Pecards for longevity, let it sit for a week, and took it out for two more sessions... and noticed that the whip now felt much looser, and somehow different. Cracking it was a bit more challenging, and at times I couldn't even tell which way it naturally curved when I was trying to crack it!

I don't think I overdid it with the Pecards, since I applied a very thin layer... But for some reason, it just felt very wobbly, and made much more soft pops than actual cracks, as opposed to the first two sessions where it cracked on command.

Is this normal as well? Or did I do some irreperrable damage here? Since this is my first time with a bullwhip, I wonder if this is just part of the breaking-in process, and the loosening up is like taking off a bike's training wheels... Or if it simply is broken. If it is the latter, can it be fixed?

[McFly]

I'll PM you my address and you can send me the whip... I'll let you know if it still cracks!

Have you used it since this session where it wouldn't crack? Maybe you were just using it differently. Another thing is that when it breaks in, it might feel more "loose" but it's just more flexible. I think when your form gets better, (work on form!) you'll probably be able to get some really nice cracks out of it.

Also, I get those little "bruises" on my whip once in a while, but they usually go away with Pecards or aren't very serious looking.

Shane

[IndyFrench]

In my 14 years of cracking bullwhips, I've always been careful and friendly to my whips - but leather is leather and it will take on a certain personality as it is used.

Take this photo for example - This is my seven year old, regularly used David Morgan on the right - It has many of those telltale marks you're describing - but as long as you're not power cracking it all the time and giving it the normal doses of Pecards, I can't imagine you're doing anything abusive to these whips. The photos look fine to my eye. I think you may be agonizing the details because you're new to the practice and that's normal - just don't stress. You have some awesome whips and my gut is telling me everything is fine.



Note the "bruising" color changes along the handle and thong - that's normal. White stress marks? Sure, I get those on occasion - They rub out with Pecards easily. And yes, as your whip breaks in it will become more pliable and "ropey" to a degree. Like I said - just don't power crack it all the time and you'll have years of enjoyment with your whips.

[McFly]

Yeah, after reviewing the pictures, I have to say to really not worry about it. Especially since your whip is so new... I don't think there's anything you could do in 2 honest sessions that would destroy a whip. Certainly there are things you could do to damage it, but I think you're fine.

My pal Floatin' Joe always tells me something to the effect of, "These things were made to be tools used out in the fields and worked until they fell apart! Don't be afraid to use them!"

Yes, you have to take care of them if you want them to last LONG, but don't be afraid of a little scratch here or there. They're well made tools - you should give them credit!

Shane

[FloatinJoe]

My pal Floatin' Joe always tells me something to the effect of, "These things were made to be tools used out in the fields and worked until they fell apart! Don't be afraid to use them!"

Wow, I'm amazed at two things. First, I'm McFly's "pal". That's pretty cool, I always figured I was McFly's pal, but never figured he'd admit to it. And second, I'm getting quoted in the Bullwhip forum.

On that note, it's true, these are tools. However, as with any tool, you need to take care of it. If it gets dirty, wet, or a general mess, just clean it and condition it. Whips will take the abuse, but they want to be cared for too, just not pampered.

Think about it this way. You own a car and you drive it in all kinds of conditions. You get it wet, muddy, covered in snow. Sometimes you take long road trips or drive to fast. At the end of the trip, what should you do? You wash it, maybe wax it, and change the oil, maybe the air filter.

Use your whip, don't be afraid of getting it dirty or wet. Just do proper maintenance afterwards. When I was up at Rancho Indalo with Anthony DeLongis, it was a wet day and we trained in his corral. I asked if I should be concerned with potential damage to the whip. The direction I got was to clean the whip when we were done. At the end of the day, my whip had a good coat of a dirt-like substance on it. I cleaned the whip, gave it a coat of Pecards and life was good from there.

These are just my thoughts. Others might feel differently. Remember, your out on the range trying to move cattle and you're on horse back. Do you think that your whip is going to be clean and safe from potential elements?

Mike

[nammann]

On a somewhat serious note: Think of a bullwhip as an extension of your arm, you would't want to slam your arm off of the hard floor or any hard surface if you can help it now would you. Usually thats how I learned to control the whip. You have to become one with the whip, I mean it is Leather and what is leather?? so as an extension of your arm take good care of it and it will last a lifetime. As long as you have the proper technique you should not get any kinks, the only way I have had kinks is if I am not throwing the whip correctly and giving it full motion.

Maybe this will help??

Nick.

[JMObi]

yes, I think thats a good way of thinking about whipcracking. I looked at the photos and I agree that they look absolutely fine. They will last for years and years once you learn how to handle them well. No problems with any damage or anything there that I can see.

[Castor Dioscuri]

Thanks guys! That certainly does put my mind at ease. I do remember FloatingJoe's advice from my research that whips were made to be used, but I did panic, thinking that my neophyte efforts at mastering the technique were worse for the whip than any rain, sand, or horse, heh. But thanks again for the reassurance, McFly!

I am curious though, when you mentioned that you have to clean it afterwards, exactly how would you define 'proper maintenance' though?

Ah, and McFly, I should also mention that I do try to do the same move, but I noticed that lately, the handle seems to swivel more often than it did when it was new... I suppose it must have been the treatment of Pecards I gave it.

And IndyFrench, I am rather curious about what you mentioned. You suggested that Pecards would help get rid of those marks, but do you advise that I do it after every session? I'm just worried, since I'm told that Pecards for whips should be an occassional occurence. I just hope I won't have a ropey whip anytime soon though! But you're completely right that since I am new, every little imperfection scares me! I'll have to try get in the right Indy mindframe for this though...

And Nammann, you're completely right. I'll be sure to avoid slamming the thing into the floor. I guess the whip will be kinky though for a while, since technique is something I have yet to master!

Thanks all!

[nammann]

And IndyFrench, I am rather curious about what you mentioned. You suggested that Pecards would help get rid of those marks, but do you advise that I do it after every session? I'm just worried, since I'm told that Pecards for whips should be an occassional occurence. I just hope I won't have a ropey whip anytime soon though! But you're completely right that since I am new, every little imperfection scares me! I'll have to try get in the right Indy mindframe for this though...

I recommend not putting any leather dressing in between the handle knots, you get enough grease from your hands while you are crackin the whip so please do not grease the handle section or any of the knots or over time they will become loose and move around. I own a whip that the turks head and part of the handle section twists slightly, this bothers me especially being a whipmaker becuase to me this says that it was not properly attached or too much dressing on the handle but that is just my view. If you are talking about the dark spots on or around the handle that is just from use, now you can try a little bit of saddle soap and a sponge to try to clean it up a little but make sure you let it dry after cleaning, The only parts that I worry about putting leather dressing on is the Fall which must be kept well greased usually before use, I do not always put dressing on the thong but I do take good care of all my whips, the only time I use saddle soap is if the fall is very dirty I will take a sponge and dampen it and use some saddle soap and clean the dirt off and if the whip has alot of dirt or stains from a day of cracking. Please make sure if you do this to hang your whip up and let it completely dry, after it is dry I will usually take A small amount of dressing and rub it down the thong only, but I do not think this is necessary with too new of a whip, since there is enough dressing added by the whipmaker as it is being braided. I know that some even just wipe the dirt off with a soft dry cloth after cracking that also works. Yea and don't let the kink bother you too much I have had that happen to me every once in awhile and I just have to correct how I am throwing the whip.

Hope this helps, if there is anything else please feel free to ask and I or someone else is sure to have an answer.

Thanks

[McFly]

But thanks again for the reassurance, McFly!
. . . Ah, and McFly, I should also mention that I do try to do the same move, but I noticed that lately, the handle seems to swivel more often than it did when it was new... I suppose it must have been the treatment of Pecards I gave it.

You're welcome, bro! Also, I don't know if it was your Pecards or not (I don't think it was), but after you practice for a while, you'll see what's up and you'll get it down. Then you'll be consistent and you'll really know when something goes wrong. You said these are your first whips?

Shane

[BullWhipBorton]

Castor Dioscuri, I looked at your photos. I don’t see anything wrong or out of the ordinary with the bullwhip either. Again, to reiterate though try to avoid the floor slams. You can use the ground for helping your alignment but try to work the whip in the air so it’s not smacking hard onto the floor or into the ground.

I would say that the kinks you are noticing are most likely where the strands have been dropped into the whip. Now that the whip is starting to break in those spots tend become a little more noticeable for a little while, it shouldn’t effect the way the whip performs though. If you look closely at them, you may notice a strand of leather being dropped into the plaiting and disappearing inside the whip.

The bruising & whitish marks are probably from the whip being hit against the floor, it should not be damaging the leather physically, you may just be able to rub them out with your finger if they bother you. The fall and popper could be catching on the plaited section of the whip as well.

If that “melting” look you described is what I think it is, it is probably again from the whip impacting the floor, compacting the leather plaiting. Joes plaiting on these type of whips is actually pretty rough and heavy, by that I mean the plaiting really stands out, and you can feel the texture of the plaiting if you rub you hand over it. That is characteristic of the Indy whips with their thicker, heavier and wide lace so as it hits and is dragged over the smooth floor, it compacts the edges of the leather and almost burnishes and rounding them in a sense. It’s not that uncommon to see on used whips.

Once you start using your whip, You will almost never get it to look as new and as pristine as when it was first made. They are for the most part are tools though and like anything else, normal wear and tear is to be expected and is nothing to worry about. You can usually avoid the major problems before the occur with a bit of forethought and basic maintenance. There is a whole write up whip maintenance and care at viewtopic.php?t=19880
I would suggest reading it if you haven’t already.

Usually all you really have to do is just wipe the whip down after your done using it for the day with a soft clean cloth to remove any dirt or dust that it might have picked up. You can lightly dampen the cloth if needed. If you are using a whip in a stock yard or on the trail in the mud and muck, it will need a more thorough cleaning. They do pick up a little dirt though even just being used on grass or a gym floor. So just clean them off, Do a quick general inspection to make sure everything looks ok. Put a little leather dressing on the fall after every few practice when needed. You don’t need to put leather dressing on the whole whip after every practice, in fact you shouldn’t. It’s just as important not to over condition a whip, as it is not to under condition. How much you use or how often to apply it is based on how much you use the whip and under what conditions. New whip owners either tend to over condition or not condition enough, its kind of a learning process to figure out just when your whip is starting to get dry, or if its staying too greasy.

I don’t know what you define as a light coat of leather dressing, but it undoubtedly helped loosen up the whip, probably more then you expected. That does change the feel and even affect the weight and balance to some an extent making the whip feel a little differnt. Letting it soak in for a week probably wasn’t necessary especially if the whip was new to begin with as the whip still had oils in it from the tannery and from the plaiting soap as it was being made.

Typically you don’t want to use leather conditioner to help break in a new whip. Its best to gradually let the whip break in with out using leather dressing to try to rush it along, Not only does it make the change less noticeable but it also helps the whip conforms to you as well and how you handle it. A quick way to find the natural curve is by holding the handle and rotating the whip slowly, you should feel it when the whip suddenly drop into place and then relax as it settles in its natural curvature.

I’m not sure why you’re feeling any rotation in the handle. That bothers me a little. While that is not all that uncommon in David Morgan’s bullwhips, due to how he attaches the lead to the steel spike. I have never seen it on one of Joes bullwhips before, as he uses a different method to attach it more securely. If the plaiting on the handle feels loose and the whip is still new, you should drop Joe a line and discuss it with him. Over saturating the plating on the handle can eventually cause the plaiting to stretch and slip, but I would be surprised if it happens from one time application. With out being able inspecting the whip first hand, it’s tough to make a call on what’s exactly is going on though.

Dan

[LemonLauren]

Sounds like everybody has given some great advice. I'd just reiterate a couple things in agreement:

1. Your whip will never again look the same way it did when you first opened the box. The shellac will crack/flake/rub off, the whip will darken (some parts more than others), the braiding will start sitting in more and rounding out more, the thong will become more flexible (though should never lose its natural curve), and the knot will slowly begin to conform to the shape of your hand... to name only a few changes. It just means your whip is being used and loved! )

2. It seems like many people who know that they should condition their whip have a tendency to over-condition their whip, for various reasons. Resist this temptation, please!!! Good whipmakers like Joe Strain plait tightly not because this makes a whip easy to crack right out of the box, but because it makes the whip last longer and stay in better condition. Applying too much conditioner loosens that purposefully tight braiding. So try to stick to the approx every 6 months rule for the thong so long as you're cracking in a nice controlled environment, but go ahead and condition the fall as often as you want. After every other practice sounds great, though I'm a little lazier than that and my fall on my 2005 Strain whip (still the original) has held up fine.

3. I'd avoid the water... A whip is like a wick, and will happily pull any moisture it receives straight into the core (which is why applying the leather conditioner works so well!). I knew one guy who had a pair of whips that got wet, and it took him a couple days to attempt to dry them - they still smell like mold to this day. I know another guy whose cat peed on a whip and he tried to clean it immediately afterward - it still smells like cat pee. So I'm sure a little moisture isn't going to do anything horrible to your whip, but personally I try to avoid it whenever possible.

Anyways, congratulations on the whip, and have fun!!!

Lauren Wickline
www.midwestwhips.com

[rjallen70]

Couldn't he give it a good stiff roll to straighten out that kink?
Sometimes with my nylon whips, I pull a dropped strand too tightly then when the opposite strand comes 'round not as tight, the whip wants to bend toward the tighter strand. This happens near the tip. When I roll the finished thong, it straightens right up.
Disclaimer: I know less than nothing about roo whips which is why I have phrased this tip in the form of a question .
Ron

[Canuck Digger]

Congrats on your whip! Looks awsome!

There's very little I can add here that hasn't already been said, but I will say that when I first strated cracking whips, way back when I was 11 (38 now), I would work that puppy every day after school and had no real idea of how to properly take care of it. I used and abused it and even though it was a simple 4 plait bullwhip, it survived many, many years of my harsh treatment (I was rough in the way young kids are rough with pets: its loving but it ain't no picnic). The reason you got yourself this whip is to enjoy using it, so go ahead and enjoy using it. That's what it's there for. When it gets too and tired, find it a nice place in your home and let it rest. But in the meantime, it should have a full life and only you can give that to it.
Cheers,

Franco

[Chewie Louie]

I know another guy whose cat peed on a whip and he tried to clean it immediately afterward - it still smells like cat pee.

Boy, that sure does bring new meaning to * whipped. (sorry, couldn't resist)

Moderator Edit: Watch the language and innuendo. Keep in mind this is a family friendly forum, Next time resist making these type of comments.

[Boggstandard]

In my opinion, if you have to use asterisks in a posting, don't post it.