Rifles - Indy 4

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:53 pm

I was torn whether I should put this in the Indy 4 area or here. Can anyone confirm the ID of this rifle used by the military in this scene? It kind of looks like the M14.

Mississippi Jones · Post by **Mississippi Jones** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:58 pm

Yep. those are m14's.

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:58 pm

Looks like an M14 to me, with maybe a bigger magazine...

Shane

Terryhimself · Post by **Terryhimself** » Sun May 04, 2008 10:26 pm

Those are .30 Cal. M1 Carbines. The front Bbl. band and sling slot in butt stock are giveaways.

Indiana · Post by **Indiana** » Sun May 04, 2008 11:13 pm

100% positive they are M2 Carbines with 30 round magazines. I have two carbines sitting upstairs right now. I'll take a picture of one with a 30 rd. magazine in it sometime this week and post it.

The carbine in that picture is a later model and because they have the 30rd mags and the movie is in 1957, I would assume they are the fully automatic M2 carbine. They also appear to have M2 "potbelly" stocks, which would also indicate they are M2 carbines.

Looks wise, these are no different than M1 carbines, except for a few other parts that make it full auto (like the selector switch).

http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/m2m3.htm

Trebor · Post by **Trebor** » Mon May 05, 2008 12:00 am

They are either M-1 (semi-auto) or M-2 (select fire) Carbines. You really can't tell from the pics. Since the 30 round mags can be used by either version, that doesn't really tell us much.

The "potbelly" stock was designed and originally issue with the M-2 Carbine, but was widely used as a replacement for damaged M-1 stocks, so that is not conclusive in itself.

My guess is they are *probably* M-1's, just because of the additional hassle involved with full-auto firearms, even when you are just using them in a movie. Unless there is specific script need for full-auto, it would make much more sense to rent or acquire sem-auto's then full-auto's.

We'll know when the movie comes out. If they are ever shown firing full-auto, then we'll know they are M-2's. If they only ever fire semi-auto, or not at all, odds are they are M-1's.

Oh, and the country where these scenes were filmed also makes a difference.

One last thought, for the time period of the movie, they could be either version. The select-fire M-2 largely replaced the M-1 after WWII, but the M-1 was also still in service. Could go either way.

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Mon May 05, 2008 1:05 am

Indiana wrote:100% positive they are M2 Carbines with 30 round magazines. I have two carbines sitting upstairs right now. I'll take a picture of one with a 30 rd. magazine in it sometime this week and post it.

Indiana, Terryhimself, & Trebor,

I originally looked at the M1 but reviewing the photos I found online:

http://dblomq.tripod.com/html/m1garand.htm

I ruled it out, but I guess there are a lot of variants for the M1. I did think what appeared to be a slot in the butt was pretty distinctive, and didn't see that feature on the M14, so I was confused about the actual rifle used in that scene. Indiana, I'll be interested to see your photos. Thanks.

Rook · Post by **Rook** » Mon May 05, 2008 8:46 am

You're probably a little confused by the "M1" designation.

For some oddball reason the US Military used that designation on the M1 Garand, the .30 M1 Carbine AND The M1A1 Thompson Submachine gun.

There's also the M1A which is esentially a Garand that accepts the box magazines of the M14.

I'm pretty certain the movie still posted above is the .30 M1 Carbine.

Russ

dr. tyree · Post by **dr. tyree** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:02 am

Without question a .30 caliber M1 carbine with a banana clip. You can see one in Howard Hawks' The Thing. My dad has one made by Universal that I shot innumerable rounds through as a kid, that has the slot in the stock. It was the only gun ground crews qualified with in the Strategic Air Command during the Cold War when he was in the Air Force, circa 1957. The M14 is a much larger rifle.

RC Halliburton · Post by **RC Halliburton** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:42 am

M1 Carbine is a great choice for the period. Take a look at "The Day the Earth Stood Still" and every trooper in it seems to have a carbine AND a 45. There's a great bit where Klaatu gets his "Gift" out, and all the GIs draw on him, including the guys sitting inside a tank!

Indiana · Post by **Indiana** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:57 am

I know the M2 stock was used on M1 carbines as a replacement (one of mine has an M2 stock), but I believe they are M2 carbines for the sheer reason of it is a movie. They want excitement, and because the M2 was one of the main weapons issued to US troops (though the Garand was the primary combat weapon), the full auto features of the M2 make it the perfect choice for a movie. I'm going to pay really close attention to the shooting scenes in the trailer this evening and see if I can see any M2's firing. I haven't heard and semiauto rifle fire in the trailer, its all been automatic, so that is my reasoning behind the M2.

And for anyone who thinks they are something else, that is impossible. They are carbine plain and simple. If you cannot tell by just looking at it, the oiler hole in the stock gives it away. The metal oiler tube was put in there and the sling was brought through and around the oiler and then through the buckle on the sling.

Pictures of my carbines will be taking tonight, if I can find time.

Mississippi Jones · Post by **Mississippi Jones** » Mon May 05, 2008 12:03 pm

Yep, I was wrong, I should've known better. Those are M1 Carbines. Although the M14 was given to the Army in 1957.

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:49 pm

I have one of these M1 30 carbines for sale ;-)

TR

Magnum Jones · Post by **Magnum Jones** » Tue May 06, 2008 7:14 am

Texas Raider wrote:I have one of these M1 30 carbines for sale ;-)

TR

What kinda shape is it? how is the bore??do the numbers match??

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Tue May 06, 2008 11:41 pm

I'll have it on gunbroker here shortly, all the info will be there.

TR

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Wed May 07, 2008 12:00 am

Texas Raider wrote:I'll have it on gunbroker here shortly, all the info will be there.

TR

Since it's your own, please post a link when it's up, thanks.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed May 07, 2008 8:23 am

Since he's got an add in the Classifieds already (if I recall) that would be the best place to post a link.

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Wed May 07, 2008 9:39 am

I take it the Russians will be carrying AK47's?

carebear · Post by **carebear** » Wed May 07, 2008 11:46 am

Minnesota Jones wrote:I take it the Russians will be carrying AK47's?

Or walkie-talkies, depending on the version.

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Wed May 07, 2008 12:04 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:Since he's got an add in the Classifieds already (if I recall) that would be the best place to post a link.

Yeah, that's fine, but the weapon he has up there right now appears to be different.

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Wed May 07, 2008 5:00 pm

Here's a few pics of it, the auction starts tonight. I'll put it in the for sale section- It's in excellent condition,,some of the prettiest wood I've seen-

[img][img]http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6824/30carbine001ta9.th.jpg[/img][/img] [img][url=http://img230.imageshack.us ... .jpg[/img][/img][/url]

[img][img]http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8426/30carbine003yg4.th.jpg[/img][/img] [img][url=http://img230.imageshack.us ... .jpg[/img][/img][/url]

TR

Indiana · Post by **Indiana** » Wed May 07, 2008 8:51 pm

Who is the maker? Inland?

Indiana · Post by **Indiana** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:46 pm

Picture time.

On top is their pappa, the M1 Garand. I'm hoping Indy uses one of these in the new film. Under that is a Winchester M1 Carbine and below that is an Underwood M1 Carbine.

And carbines are now SA Indy guns now!

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Thu May 08, 2008 10:23 pm

Mine-

[img][img]http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2695/gunselectronics001iv6.th.jpg[/img][/img] [img][url=http://img80.imageshack.us/ ... .jpg[/img][/img][/url]

TR

Jaredraptor · Post by **Jaredraptor** » Sat May 10, 2008 1:24 am

Indiana wrote:And carbines are now SA Indy guns now!

Heh, how funny...I predicted that we'd see Indy using a carbine back in that thread about the guns we want to see in Indy 4 (from last summer). Plus my grandad is gonna give me his M1 Carbine after my first three or four years of college. So even if the movie carbines are M2s I'll still have something that looks SA

Luke Warmwater · Post by **Luke Warmwater** » Sat May 10, 2008 7:46 pm

Rook wrote:There's also the M1A which is esentially a Garand that accepts the box magazines of the M14.
Russ

To be precise, the M1A is the semi-auto, civilian version of the M14; the same way the the AR15 is the civilian version of the M16.

http://www.armusa.com/SpringfieldRiflesPage4.htm

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:50 am

I saw M1 carbines (Army surplus I guess) in Big5 Sporting goods 2 months ago. Very unusual to see them there nowadays. They were going for One grand. I settled for a Ruger 10/22, which it seems to me gets some inspiration from the M1 design. ........... Also, I was reading this months GQ with Shia on the cover. They mentioned that Speilberg is quite a gun collector, and liked to keep the guns from his movies, including the M1 from Jaws.

Indiana · Post by **Indiana** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:15 pm

You saw those at the sporting goods store because there is a flood of Carbines being brought back into the country right now. Importers and the CMP are really getting a lot of Carbines. $1000 is ridiculous for the most part, at current prices. If it was a rare maker or in great shape, that'd be a better price, but chances are that was an Inland in rack grade shape.

If you want a great deal on a carbine, check out the Civillian Marksmanship Program. It is a great program to support because of everything they do to promote marksmanship. They are chartered by Congress and recieve all of the .30 caliber rifles the army recieves when a country returns them or the Army takes them out of their arsenals. They then inspect them and sell them to the public.

www.odcmp.com

Both of my Carbines came from the CMP.

Solent MKIII · Post by **Solent MKIII** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:40 am

Definetly a neat little gun to collect and shoot as Mr. Ben H. put it.
I need to pick up a new firing pin and springs for the bolt so I can
take mine up the range along with a Russian rifle I finished repairing
several months back, but haven't had the chance to shoot as of yet.
Thanks to the new movie, I've got another Indy gun in my colection!
I just wish the ammo prices would drop - target shootin' is getting as
expensive as collecting Indygear! :junior:

LittleIndy · Post by **LittleIndy** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:14 am

Yep definitely the M1 .30 carbine. My dad gave me one for my 13 birthday a few years back. He qualified with one along with the garand while serving in the army, appropriatley in 1957. He also had a tool still that was used to strip down the garand. He taught me how to shoot, strip and clean firearms on that carbine. I love my carbine. It is extremely fun to shoot. When I saw screen shots of the movie with soldiers in them I was really excited to take my dad along so he could point out what was inaccurate or not. The thought too came to my mind, how cool it would be if Indy picks up a carbine in the new movie. When I saw him take aim with the carbine, I nearly jumped out of my seat. The movie could have ended right there and I would have been very happy. Unfortunately my dad passed away a little before the movie premiered, &@ddamn cancer. Yeah it's a great rifle. Various versions saw action in WWII, Korea, and I was pleasantly surprised when I saw a trooper lugging one around in Vietnam on a documentary. It was typically issued to officers as it was lighter and more compact than the M1 garand.

Thanks dad for the carbine!

Rambler · Post by **Rambler** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:10 pm

LittleIndy wrote:Yep definitely the M1 .30 carbine. My dad gave me one for my 13 birthday a few years back. He qualified with one along with the garand while serving in the army, appropriatley in 1957. He also had a tool still that was used to strip down the garand. He taught me how to shoot, strip and clean firearms on that carbine. I love my carbine. It is extremely fun to shoot. When I saw screen shots of the movie with soldiers in them I was really excited to take my dad along so he could point out what was inaccurate or not. The thought too came to my mind, how cool it would be if Indy picks up a carbine in the new movie. When I saw him take aim with the carbine, I nearly jumped out of my seat. The movie could have ended right there and I would have been very happy. Unfortunately my dad passed away a little before the movie premiered, &@ddamn cancer. Yeah it's a great rifle. Various versions saw action in WWII, Korea, and I was pleasantly surprised when I saw a trooper lugging one around in Vietnam on a documentary. It was typically issued to officers as it was lighter and more compact than the M1 garand.

Thanks dad for the carbine!

They were also used in Vietnam to give to Vietnamese troops sice their on average smaller stature than the Americans meant that the M-14 of the early days of the war was a little too big for many of them. Plus, we had plenty of them in strorage.
Little Indy, sorry to hear about the passing of your Dad. My father died several years back and I still think of him teaching me to shoot every time I even handle a firearm (which is often). Cherish those memories and pass on the tradition to your kids.

Regards,
Rambler

RParga · Post by **RParga** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:52 am

At least if not all of the Carbines in the movie were M2s. The close up they did when Indy was holding the Sovs at bay you could clearly see the selector. As for the AKs in the movie, there were a few mistakes. Most were AKMs and not 47s and there were a few Chinese made ones in there as well. The AKM did not surface until 1959 and the Chinese AKs are easy to spot due to their hooded front sights instead of the protective ears. Any wonder why I drive my wife nuts when we go to the movies

rebelgtp · Post by **rebelgtp** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:17 pm

RParga wrote:At least if not all of the Carbines in the movie were M2s. The close up they did when Indy was holding the Sovs at bay you could clearly see the selector. As for the AKs in the movie, there were a few mistakes. Most were AKMs and not 47s and there were a few Chinese made ones in there as well. The AKM did not surface until 1959 and the Chinese AKs are easy to spot due to their hooded front sights instead of the protective ears. Any wonder why I drive my wife nuts when we go to the movies

hehe so that means my chinese AK is screen accurate...

that is actually the first thing I thought when I saw them on screen.

I'm also in the process of getting my Curios and Relics FFL so that I can get get my hands on quite a few of the "Indy gun" and quite a few others without the hassles of a shop.

carebear · Post by **carebear** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:48 am

rebelgtp wrote:hehe so that means my chinese AK is screen accurate...

that is actually the first thing I thought when I saw them on screen.

I'm also in the process of getting my Curios and Relics FFL so that I can get get my hands on quite a few of the "Indy gun" and quite a few others without the hassles of a shop.

Becoming a Cruffler? Kiss your discretionary income goodbye.

That license is like giving the keys to the pharmacy to an addict.

rebelgtp · Post by **rebelgtp** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:18 am

carebear wrote: Becoming a Cruffler? Kiss your discretionary income goodbye.

That license is like giving the keys to the pharmacy to an addict.

yep I already know what my first couple of purchases will be both Mosin Nagants first would be the 91/30 to be built up for a long gun with scope. the second will be either a 38 or 44 carbine that will be converted to a scout rifle. later on I'll more than likely get a couple more to keep original

. Out where I live the scout rifle will be perfect to take with me when I'm camping and hiking. Loads of bear and cougars are on the rise, no one really goes out without some kind of gun.

Yeah and just about every "Indy gun" is on the list of approved fire arms

guess that is what happens when Indy uses military stuff