Just got stopped by the Tree Police!

schmidty612 · Post by **schmidty612** » Mon May 05, 2008 4:28 pm

Mods, please feel free to move this if it doesn't belong.

I live in an apartment, therefore I have no yard to use my bullwhip in. I go over to a forest preserve near my house, find a secluded picnic area, and get cracking! I've been doing this during the summer for about 6 years. People walk by, I stop so as not to accidentally hit someone. I use common sense. I have also had a discussion with a park ranger on several occasions asking if it was in fact OK to do so. I've been given the go ahead. Well, today for the first time, someone called 911. ON ME!! I was cracking away and I saw a police cruiser roll up and I immediately thought "Oh ####" So, I coiled my whip, put it on a picnic table and put my hands up. I was of course smiling at the ridiculousness of it all. I slowly walked towards the cruiser with my hands up, when finally the Tree Cop got out. He said "Bullwhip"? I replied "Indiana Jones Fan" he laughed and told me I had to knock it off. I told him it's never been a problem before and I had actually gotten the OK from another ranger. He told me everything's OK until someone calls 911. Then he asked "Are You any good?" I said not really but it's fun. So I went, collected my whip from the picnic table and walked back to my car. I saw a couple in the parking area who asked me if I was issued a ticket. I told them no and apologized for the noise and I didn't mean to frighten them. They replied that it wasn't them, but an Asian woman who was on her cell phone....CRYING. Yes, I believe I made someone cry.

Anyway, I was just irritated by it all and had to vent. My question is, do I push my luck and go back next week?

Thanks for listening and regards to all,

Schmidty

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Mon May 05, 2008 5:14 pm

I say go back... if that woman happens to be there again, maybe she'll know what it is next time and not CRY.

Besides... you've been going there for 6 years!!!

Shane

Argonaut · Post by **Argonaut** » Mon May 05, 2008 5:33 pm

Oh my word. The nerve of some people. I say go back and crack it as loud as you can. Exercise your rights.

racerx · Post by **racerx** » Mon May 05, 2008 5:37 pm

Hi schmidty,

you say you've been cracking there for about six years, as long as you feel confortable I'd keep going back, sounds like and isolated incident.

Usually people who don't understand get trigger happy and call 911,
one thing you might consider if you already haven't is taking a target holder with you and cutting targets like pasta or balloons etc, that way anyone who notices will consider it entertainment and probley ask questions.

Then your also free to do general cracking without being labled as menicing or scrary,,

Thats worked for me so far.

All the best

Jim J.

schmidty612 · Post by **schmidty612** » Mon May 05, 2008 5:47 pm

Thanks for the words of encouragement guys!! However, I don't want the tree police to get all high and mighty and, give me a ticket, or worse yet, call in the real police. And as far as this being an isolated incident, I wonder because this place is fairly busy as forest preserves go. People usually meet there to have "nooners" if you catch my meaning, afternoon delight i believe it was once called. So, I (heh, heh) don't want to STARTLE anyone.

racerx, I would LOVE to cut targets, but, have you ever seen that video of the fat kid with the lightsaber, twirling it around? I look like a slightly less spastic version of that with my whip. (At least that's what I THINK I look like

Thanks all,

Schmidty

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon May 05, 2008 6:11 pm

You made me laugh out loud with the Lightsaber kid comment.

Film yourself. We can make MILLIONS! (bagsie 35% for the idea!)

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Mon May 05, 2008 7:10 pm

schmidty612 wrote:People usually meet there to have "nooners" if you catch my meaning, afternoon delight i believe it was once called. So, I (heh, heh) don't want to STARTLE anyone.

. Startle.

That really stinks.

Is there anywhere else you can crack your whip?

schmidty612 · Post by **schmidty612** » Mon May 05, 2008 7:57 pm

I'm surrounded by forestt preserves. I just happen to like this one. Also, I don't quite know how they are policed, I could go to another one and meet a cop who's a complete ####. Ya know? What really grinds my gears is the "crying " woman was GONE by the time I got back to my car!! I could've explained what I was doing and she could've chilled the heck out!!! I'm totally harmless. Unless you happen to be Taco Bell cuisine.

Schmidty

Boggstandard · Post by **Boggstandard** » Mon May 05, 2008 8:57 pm

For years I used to practice whip cracking in a little park across the street from my house- next door to the police department. At first, officers would stop by to check me out, some asked interesting questions and some even speculated as to whether there might be a police application for my pocket snake whip. Eventually though, they just ignored me. During the four years at that residence, I knew of only two complaints (excessive noise/disturbing the peace). The police advised the complainants that there no violations of either the California State Penal Code or the Municipal Code (the noise levels were not excessive, and the cracking took place during daylight hours).

Since I moved I now practice on a soccer field at the school where I teach (in the cafeteria during the few in-climate days we have in So. California), I have never been made aware of any complaints. I regularly demonstrate my whips to 3-4-5 grade students while presenting lessons in Social Studies: Western Movement, Science: Kinetic Energy and Math: measuring/designing plaiting patterns.

A lot of the "hassle" whip crackers experience likely results from ignorance on the part of the public at large and law enforcement. To be honest, when I was a police officer (long before I got the whip bug), I might very well have looked askance at someone cracking a whip in my area.

schmidty612 · Post by **schmidty612** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:02 pm

I should've probably had a little more discussion with the officer to see if things would get worse for me if I kept it up.

Boggstandard · Post by **Boggstandard** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:25 pm

That might depend on the officer. Some officers view discussion as just a step removed from assault. In California, there is a term police-radio term: COC, meaning Contemptuous Of Cop. For some officers, discussion comes very close to COC.

You just never know the reaction you will get from an officer. I depends on how the stars are aligned, the time of day, the day of the week, and a variety of other variables.

gi_canuck · Post by **gi_canuck** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:38 pm

So sorry to hear about your ordeal, Schmidty... Dang, I am so lucky there's an empty soccer field next to my place... I usually have the whole place by myself. The field is sunken in quite a bit, so the sound echoes within the field and doesn't get out thus not alerting anyone around. If I ever had an Indy summit here in Kamloops, that's where I'd take everyone to. It's public, but no one knows about it and most times, there's hardly anyone there unless there's a game going on.

Anyway, like someone said above, I think it's just an isolated incident, I don't think something like that would happen again. Maybe that lady thought the sound was a gunshot or something... Well, don't get discouraged by something like that. You weren't doing anything illegal. You know it, we know it. It's just a freak incident. Well, hope you feel better now!!

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:40 pm

Yeah been there... You might want to talk with your local "tree" police (so funny) and see if an arrangement can be found, or perhaps they might be able to suggest a better area for you to practice in... at least they would be aware when you are cracking and would not immediately think gun, and not come with guns at the ready. They would still have to investigate any complaints, but at least they would not be on the deffenssive when approaching you. Thing is, if they have to keep coming down to tell you to stop, it then becomes a pain in their butt... and that might make you persona non-gratta.

I'm thinking of rallying a few people together and have group sessions so it doesn't feel like it's such a loner-weirdo thing, you know, but more of a group activity... ####, might even bring some balloons to pop. Nobody can be scared if balloons are out right? I think this might bring the tension level down a lot. As far as the woman crying, she is obviously hysterical and probably needs a good reality check (once upon a time, a couple of slaps were the thing to do to jar people out of such states, but I wouldn't recommend that nowadays). Who knows, maybe she had a very traumatic experience in her life and this brings it all back and it's just too much for her to handle? Who knows the reasons why people do the things they do? But as I said, perhaps dialogue with the local authorities can help, and who knows, when they see you are trying to not be a nuisance, maybe they can allow you into a restricted spot where no one but them go and this would place you outside the influence of any pasersby... Failing all this, rent an indoor space.
Luck,

Franco

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:27 pm

This story irks me. I am so tired of ignorant sheep people who freak out so easily at everything and panic. Why does society cater to the irrationally fearful?

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:39 pm

I guess because back in the day, you didn't have people that would take a gun in a school and just start shooting a bunch of strangers. People back then didn't have a notion to panic at the slightest little thing.

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:54 pm

Ok I'm not going to stray from the topic too long, only long enough to say this; society caters to fearful people because it is THE BIGGEST BUSINESS ON EARTH! 'Nuff said.

IndianaChris711 · Post by **IndianaChris711** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:02 am

Wow.... schmidty612 I feel for you man. I cannot believe someone would call 911 on you. That is just not right. I cannot believe the woman was crying though, over a whip. My goodness. I practice in my front yard where people can see and I have not had a single incident happen. I go and practice in a open field and practice cracking, this kid came up to me once and asked if I liked cracking a whip. I said sure, but I told him I am still learning, which I still am. That is all who have come up to me about my whip. The only time I would cry over a whip, is when I would receive one in a joyful moment.

I think it would probably be ok to go back as long as that Asian woman does not live in this forest preserve, then you have to go somewhere else. He did not say don't come back here, he just said to knock it off. I can't believe that two people asked if you got a ticket. A ticket for whipcracking, how ridiculous is that. That is worse than getting a ticket for skateboarding. At least you were very nice and gentleman about it and appologized about the noise. I guess I would go back, but not for a while.

That is my opinion.

IndianaChris

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:09 am

The only time I ever had some sort of incident was when I was 11.
I had just bought how to make whips by Ron Edwards, and I finished a whip kit which I bought from Robert duke. I'll never forget that moment, the loud thunderous crack it made. That was an amazing day.

Anyways, I'm cracking and this little boy (probably about 6) comes over and says....WHAT ARE YOU DOING!......mommy, this boy has a whip. And his entire family came over...a few minutes later they said..."goodbye freak" and left.

I've been cracking whips since I was 9, so the neighbors really don't even notice I'm doing it anymore.

ANZAC_1915 · Post by **ANZAC_1915** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:15 am

I mostly worry about noise complaints, in my own yard. If someone complains, even during the day, the police have to show up.

Maybe the woman had a bad experience with a whip once before?
(I'm trying to keep a straight face saying that)

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Tue May 06, 2008 1:43 am

Here's a road I've been down! I actually had someone call the police on me back after I got my first IOAB (had to be early 06), who responded with riot shotguns trained on me, screaming for me to drop the whip, get on my knees, etc.

Really. I lived in California at the time.

All in all, don't feel bad about someone calling 911 on you, or crying. That's their overreaction, and it's nothing for you to be ashamed about. In fact, after my situation had cooled down and the responding officers realized I was no threat, they told me that sometimes people call in these kind of things and make the situation out to be much worse than it is, just to get an officer response faster. The people who called on me probably just didn't like the noise, so they decided to phone the police instead of letting me enjoy the park, too. What's funny is, I got a ticket for "use of park contrary to designed purpose." That's really what the ticket was for.

I went to court, and the baliff gave this huge speech that the lowest fine anyone could get was 149$, and that if we were offered that, we should take it. They offered me 149$, and I told my public defender to go back to the DA and tell them to stick their offer where the sun don't shine. She laughed and told me that if I went to a jury trial, I may end up paying fines as high as 400$, and I told her the money would be worth it to see the looks on the jurors faces when they realized what they had been called in for. She told the DA to stick it, and I was given a date to come back on. I came back two weeks later, and my attorney smiles and says to me: "I'm actually disappointed! They dropped your case. I wanted to see what would actually happen!"

The woman on her phone may have really been crying, but also may have been faking it on the phone for the dispatcher's benefit. NOT SAYING SHE WAS ... Just that it was possible, based on my experiences and what I've been told.

Anyhoo, didn't mean to hijack your thread, but I figured it'd help ya feel better if you heard a story from someone else who's been there. Keep cracking!

schmidty612 · Post by **schmidty612** » Tue May 06, 2008 8:12 pm

I called the Forest Preserve Office today, and I got an apology. But I was also told that, as to save myself some future headaches from crying women calling 911, I might go to a different forest preserve, as opposed to the busiest in the county. I guess I'll take that. They aren't telling me I can't do it at all or are going to ticket me. So I'm cool with that.

Regards,

Bryan

Bardoon · Post by **Bardoon** » Tue May 06, 2008 8:53 pm

Glad to hear you didn't get a ticket or anything.

Really nowadays you can basically get called out on ANYTHING. My one buddy has problems with his neighbor (he lives in a condo and she's directly across) who calls the cops on his all the time for noise. And the noise is little-to-nothing during DAYLIGHT HOURS.

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Tue May 06, 2008 10:08 pm

Once, I was in my front yard practicing when a police cruiser rolled up and stopped at the curb. The officer had the window rolled down and he leaned over and smiled at me out the window. Now, I was wearing my Akubra and you could tell I was an Indy fan... so the officer just laughed a little, said something about Indiana Jones, and mentioned he was just patroling the area and heard me and thought I might have been setting off fire crackers. He was relieved that it was just a whip, and told me to have a nice night!

That guy was cool...

Every once in a blue moon, the police will drive by and smile or roll their eyes and keep going.

I think though, if you have a group, or look like you have some purpose, it doesn't look as bad. Like for your story, I think if you had a few people with you, watching or something, that would be fine. Then again, maybe not...

Shane

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed May 07, 2008 12:18 am

how about this. Down at my fire department we now put up signs saying " fire department drill." when we go out to drill we put these signs up or you will get calls coming in asking what is going on. I don't get it my self but people will dial 911 because the see a few fire engines at a building. We are already there so why call. Crazy but if we pu t the signs up it cut down on the phone calls.

Maybe if you put up a couple of sings saying "bullwhips practice" make up a phoney school name or company name. Something to take away all the question in everyones head.

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Wed May 07, 2008 3:40 am

Just put up a sign that says, "Caution: Crazy Man With Bullwhip" and leave it at that. Nobody will come near, and nobody will call the police because there's a sign.

Shane

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:40 am

schmidty612 wrote:Ya know? What really grinds my gears is the "crying " woman was GONE by the time I got back to my car!! I could've explained what I was doing and she could've chilled the heck out!!! I'm totally harmless. Unless you happen to be Taco Bell cuisine.

That is the LAST thing you'd want to do. You see, you, as a rational human being, WANT to believe that explaining your harmless behavior in a calm, rational way will defuse the situation. That is perfectly rational and understandable.

But the woman was crying. She was overly emotional and probably borderline hysteric at the time. Saying ANYTHING to her in this state could very well have brought a physical or verbal assault charge down on you, especially if you were still holding the whip, (which we often do when we want to show someone that it's not a torture device or a weapon....It's just a noisemaker.)

Now, with the police officer right there, you'd have a reliable witness that could attest to her present state of mind, but there'd still be the inconvenience of having to deal with it.

If the woman lives nearby, putting up a "Caution: Crazy Man With Bullwhip" could be seen as inflammatory and provoking. You're provoking her to call the police. The police then tag you with a fine for "Causing Public Unrest." (I know you're joking, Shane...But I've seriously considered doing things like that until I thought what the consequences might be.)

I often find it works better to go and talk to the police BEFORE hand. Let them know what's going on, so if someone calls, they can either tell them that they are aware of it, and what it is, and diffuse the situation instantly by putting peoples doubts to rest, OR that if they get a BELLIGERENT complaint and DO have to come out, they know what to expect. I've had police show up AFTER I called, and I stop and ask if there's a problem, and the response has usually been, "No...Just was told by dispatch that someone was going to be doing whip stuff over here. I just wanted to see. That's cool!"

In a lot of these types of situations, we perceive the law enforcement officers as acting like jerks, but the truth of the matter is, when they get that call, and hear that "Bang" noise, they don't know what to expect, and they are trained to expect the worse, (because they live longer that way.) False alarms can easily be laughed at by some law enforcement officers, but sometimes you're dealing with them during the "Adrenaline Dump" phase of the encounter, where they are understandably twitchy. So be patient. Do as they say, let them SEE you're harmless, and aren't carrying something ELSE deadly, (like a gun, knife, chainsaw, collapsible coat hanger, you know....) and just answer their question. Wait for them to ride that adrenaline wave before you really TRY to explain yourself like a rational person.

Yes, it's ignorance that causes events like this. But standing and shouting TRUTH just makes you look crazy, (for example...watch a street preacher some time,) and a crazy person with a whip spends some time in jail.

If all else fails, fight paperwork with paperwork. Friend of mine who was attending grad school at Morehead State in Kentucky was crossing campus one afternoon on his way to a fencing practice. He had his mask hung on his belt, and his epee, (competition blade...heavier than a foil,) stuffed through a loop in his backpack. Campus security stopped him, and told him to put the "Sword" down. He tried to point out the BIG rubber tip on the end, and that it was sporting equipment.

That did not seem to phase the security guy, and so he surrendered the epee, and was forced to surrender the other two he had in his dorm room.

Two days after, he hand carried a document to the Provost's office that demanded the confiscation of all sporting equipment from the dorms. Every ball, every field hockey stick, every frisbee.

They said he was being a bit overreactive. He pointed out that competition foils and epees are legally classified as sporting equipment and that he was being discriminated against. So, if they didn't comply, they were singling him out.

They pointed out that they saw what he was getting at, but certainly a ball did not create the immediate danger than a sword did, so Tom countered with statistics comparing the number of serious injuries in college football to college fencing.

He promised to push the issue if they didn't give his property back, and considering they'd have to pay for HIS lawyer as well, (as a college student,) they dropped it.

It's a farming implement. It's sporting equipment. It's not a weapon unless it's used as one, (That's how Revised Code works here in Ohio. You attack someone with a grapefruit spoon, it's "Assault with a Deadly Weapon," which is how I think it should be.) Don't be a jerk about it, don't purposefully annoy people with it. But stand up for your rights.

My .02 cents...

(Good Lord, my two cents is getting bigger and bigger each passing day. Bloody inflation!)

-Dan

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:56 am

McFly wrote:Just put up a sign that says, "Caution: Crazy Man With Bullwhip" and leave it at that. Nobody will come near, and nobody will call the police because there's a sign.

Shane

thanks.

Vegeta · Post by **Vegeta** » Wed May 07, 2008 3:20 pm

Whatever........Ridiculous.

stealthboy · Post by **stealthboy** » Wed May 07, 2008 3:24 pm

Just try exercising your right protected by the 2nd amendment ... ooh, boy, that's a whole 'nother level of disgust and anger.

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Wed May 07, 2008 11:06 pm

It's really amazing how something as innocuous as a person cracking a whip, something most people have heard of or see in the movies and as such are not THAT unfamiliar with, can cause such a ruckus (if you'll pardon the expression).

I've seen a fella doing whip tricks along with magic tricks in the middle of the "tourist section" of town, and nobody said anything about it. So this brings me to really believe that context has a lot to do with the reaction one gets.

Indiana · Post by **Indiana** » Wed May 07, 2008 11:13 pm

stealthboy wrote:Just try exercising your right protected by the 2nd amendment ... ooh, boy, that's a whole 'nother level of disgust and anger.

You should see the stares I get when I carry my S&W M&P9 around. But what can those people do? Absolutely nothing. It's my constitutional right and I have gotten the license needed to carry said handgun. And it's a lifetime license!

schmidty612 · Post by **schmidty612** » Thu May 08, 2008 11:24 am

You guys are the BEST. Thanks for your stories, advice and humor. I'll go to a different preserve, and wear my fedora this time. Or maybe I'll go get a toy lightsaber, go to where I can be seen, and swing it around. Maybe that'll set off crazy crying woman too if she's there!!

hocfutue · Post by **hocfutue** » Fri May 09, 2008 2:32 pm

Indiana wrote:
You should see the stares I get when I carry my S&W M&P9 around. But what can those people do? Absolutely nothing. It's my constitutional right and I have gotten the license needed to carry said handgun. And it's a lifetime license!

Don't get me started on having to get a license to exercise a constitutional right...

In WA and many other states, it is perfectly legal to carry a holstered firearm openly, no permit needed. But you still run the risk of the hassle of hysterical, crying, uninformed people calling the police. Same deal with carrying a coiled whip on your hip.

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Fri May 09, 2008 2:41 pm

It's the same with concealed carry in Ohio. Someone sees it, you can be cited for things as insane as "Inciting a Riot." That's a felony, and if convicted of that, kiss the concealed carry goodbye.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri May 09, 2008 4:15 pm

thefish wrote:It's the same with concealed carry in Ohio. Someone sees it, you can be cited for things as insane as "Inciting a Riot." That's a felony, and if convicted of that, kiss the concealed carry goodbye.

Key word there is concealed.

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Fri May 09, 2008 5:10 pm

BendingOak wrote:Key word there is concealed.

Yeah...True.

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Fri May 09, 2008 5:18 pm

BendingOak wrote:
McFly wrote:Just put up a sign that says, "Caution: Crazy Man With Bullwhip" and leave it at that. Nobody will come near, and nobody will call the police because there's a sign.

Shane

thanks.

Huh? My post wasn't meant to be making fun of yours... I hope I haven't offended you or anything...!

I just thought it would be funny to put up a sign like that... I know I wouldn't go near somebody if the sign said they were crazy and had a bullwhip!

Shane

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri May 09, 2008 5:31 pm

mcfly, it did sound like you where makig fun of my suggestion. It may solve his problem.
I think we need to step back a bitt and try and see it from the point of view who has no clue as to whats going on. I agree the women over-reacted to what was going on but how many times have seen something in the news about people aacking people with the all kinds of weapons.
I know I been to many calls where people have attacked people with all kinds of onjects. Like I stated before we have gotten calls When We ( fire department) were out drilling ( practicing). even if the this was a fire don't you think if the fire departemnt is on sceen there is no reasons to call but people do. The idea of Signs saying fire department training stops these types of calls.
It might be that simple to just make up a sign.

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Fri May 09, 2008 6:20 pm

Something occured to me as I was reading all these posts; we're not going to solve the idiot factor. Not with phone calls or signs. Sorry. This doesn't mean these aren't worthwhile avenues to look into, conssidering the options available, they are some of our only possibilities in reducing the risks of getting arrested for cracking a whip in a public area. I think the only possible option becomes getting permission from a rancher or a farmer to go practice on his land (far away from any animals of course), so being on a private property of this size, you are pretty safe from walk-ins. Or find an indoor space which is sound proof, like a racketball court.

Beyond something like this, I think anytime we practice outdoors, we run the risk of getting someone upset or frightened. You can't completely prevent it and in the face of hysteria, your rights, constitutional or otherwise, take a back seat in the eyes of the representative of the law.

My two cents.

Just got stopped by the Tree Police!

Just got stopped by the Tree Police!

UPDATE!!!

k