Read'm and Weep! Part 2

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:28 pm

I took the title line from MK's post. While IndyGear was offline, I had the opportunity to purchase MK's Smith & Wesson 4 inch .45 ACP revolver.

I was not prepared as to how big this gun is. I must have looked like a newbie right there in the store. This thing is very solid and heavy. Everything on here works very nicely.

Naturally, my first question to myself was, "Can I shoot it?" So, I started to ask around. (Many, many thanks to those who took the time to speak with me and answer my questions.) So, I posted a few questions on some other gun forums and received some really great responses.

The first one was a person taking me to this other forum. There a member talkes about things you might consider when purchasing a revolver.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/sho ... adid=57816

It mentions some interesting points and I learned a great deal from the post.

One member asked,

The grips are yelling "Brazilian Contract" at me. What does the other side of the frame look like? Is there a goofy emblem stamped on the sideplate?

So, I looked, and sure enough, there it was.

There is a star emblem on the other side with some Spanish writing underneath. And, below that there is what appears to be the year "1937". I later found out that it was probably Portuguese and not Spanish.

So, I asked for a link to information that explains the significance regarding the Brazilian Contract? Another member responded back with these two links.

http://www.geocities.com/swede94/sw1937.html

http://www.geocities.com/swede94/us1917.html

Naturally, this increased my interest even more. I actually have a S&W 1937 revolver and not a 1917. Further explaination from another member said,

Those guns were made for the Brazilian government in that time frame. They were the only large production guns in the 1917 series N frames to use those grips. The guns are probably what we should consider as a variant of the US Military 1917s. What distinguishes them as much as the crest on the sideplate and the grips is how worn many of them seem to be. Nice guns, just a lot of use. The dark color wood I think is embedded grease and oil. Under it all is some very nicely grained and sometimes figured american walnut.
To dress the grips up a bit but keep them original, you can take them off the gun and soak them in acetone. Its amazing stuff, and just another thing I learned here on the forum. The acetone doesn't soak in or make them wet, it just lifts the oil and grease out. What you get is pretty close to the original color. If you notice the tops of all the diamonds in the checkering is pretty much worn off. Someone good with a checkering tool can re-point them and you get a totally different looking gun.

So, it looks like somebody found a reason to use acetone on their gun too. Funny it's MK's former revolver that "triggered" the idea.

All in all, I am extremely happy with this gun. I remember telling myself when I started this hobby that I was going to get everything but the gun. Oh well. I plan on taking the gun to a gunsmith and having it checked before firing. I figure it would be a good habit to get into when purchasing used arms.

Again, thanks to all who answered my questions. Your advise was very helpful.

High Regards,
Pyroxene

Cabinetman · Post by **Cabinetman** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:47 pm

Hey, Pyro,

You may also try denatured alcohol to clean up those grips, or naptha, which cleans, but won't remove any finish. I wouldn't know for sure, certainly, what kind of finish was used on the grips, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was shellac which, given the age, would also account for at least some of the "dirtiness". Denatured alcohol will remove the shellac (if in fact that's what it is), but if used lightly, may clean without removing.

I think I like the idea best of a thorough cleaning and complete removal of any existing finish. Once clean and dry, spray them with some lacquer. Deft has both satin and semi-gloss in aerosol cans. Or find a cabinet shop or finishing shop (or even auto body shop, for that matter), and ask them if they'll shoot them as they're working on something else. I'd think they'd be accommodating. I certainly would be...you know, except that we're nowhere near close enough.

Nice looking firearm.

Cab

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:31 pm

I got to handle this revolver at the QM summit. Nice stock revolver that, once a gunsmith has gone through it, will serve you very well. I personally wouldn't fire it until it has been gone over, though, as I told you on the phone yesterday. Congratulations! Regards. Michaelson

Cooler King · Post by **Cooler King** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:55 pm

Oh that's a gorgious peice of work! I have a good idea, the S&W is gonna be my next big gear purchase.

Magnificent gun Pryo!

Thanks for sharing the pics.

Chamorro · Post by **Chamorro** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:53 am

It has the half-moon sight already. You should consider getting it done in the "other" version of the ROTLA gun. Cut down the sight a little, get it re-blued (but leave the tip un-blued silver), and change the grips to the plain wooden ones without the medallions. It would certainly be unique because it seems like everyone prefers the other version around here.

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 8:58 am

Awe, Buddy… I’m having a bad case of pistol envy right now! I’m both jealous and proud for you all at the same time.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Sun Jul 20, 2003 11:40 pm

Chamorro wrote:get it re-blued (but leave the tip un-blued silver),

Thank for the suggestions. I talked to some people in the past week and two had some interesting thoughts regarding re-bluing.

The first one was our own Dr. Brody. When I asked him should I get it reblued or not he said, "Do you want it to look like an Indy gun?" Naturally my answer was yes. He suggested that I not get it reblued.

My second encounter was really interesting. I met Ken Sedlecky. Regional Sales Manager for Smith & Wesson. We chatted about S&W, history, and old guns. He advised me that the wear was nothing more than simple holster wear. Re-bluing would take away from the value of the gun.

cliffhanger · Post by **cliffhanger** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 10:58 am

Pyroxene wrote:...Re-bluing would take away from the value of the gun.

Really? Huh.

I have a family heirloom, a 1917 or so (don't know the exact year) S&W HEJ .32-.20 that has needed a reblueing since I can remember. I have always liked the look of the piece, but I always figured that reblueing it would make it more valuable. Thanks for the tip, Pyro! And that's coming from the horse's mouth, a S&W rep.!

Peace,
Cliffhanger

Chamorro · Post by **Chamorro** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:28 pm

It was my understanding that the Brazilian contract M1917s were not as valuable as the U.S. Army models. That's the reason why I had no problem cutting mine down, adding a ramp, and rebluing it. My gunsmith balked at first but when he found out that it was a Brazilan gun he was okay with it.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:36 pm

Yeah.. that's the flip side to this coin. It's already been cut down and so, what is it really worth to the collector?

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:08 pm

You're now entering that grey are of deciding exactly what you bought the gun FOR? If it's with collector's value recovery down the road, do nothing what so ever to the gun, Brazilian contact or not. If you purchased it for your enjoyment, then knowing it's not considered a main line Smith, but made on contract Smith equipment in Brazil in the 1930's, only interesting to folks in that sideline collecting market, do what YOU want with the gun. Having it overhauled, cut down and reblued isn't going to do that much damage down the road in resell. Now if you were chopping up a rare mint original 1917, you'd be in dangerous waters here, but you're not. It's an either or decision here. Either leave alone for future investment collection, OR go full bore and have the job done right. Like the other equipment, you're going to add your own holster wear over the years of enjoyment, so you may as well start out with it in as good a start out shape as possible. Just my opinion, and sometimes a voice in the wilderness, but it's what I practice. Regards. Michaelson

Chamorro · Post by **Chamorro** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 2:33 pm

If you do get it worked on, expect to pay from $100 -$175 for it. It gets more expensive when they have to make a new sight. A good gunsmith will do the rebluing for free. At least mine did.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 3:24 pm

I had the opportunity to meet a nice gunsmith named Tip Burns. He looked over my gun and found nothing wrong with it. We checked the timing and looked down the barrel and he felt everything checked out fine. His recommendation is that it's a good shooter.

He does everything from cutting down barrels to blueing to reboring to repair. If you are in need of somebody to talk to about your gun, this is the man.

As time goes by, I'll throw my projects his way and keep you all posted.

Tip Burns
830-935-3338
Canyon Lake, Texas

Cheers,
Pyro.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:31 pm

He said nothing about the cylinder endshake?

That's very odd to me, but maybe he is more forgiving regarding tolerances than I am. Glad you found a man to do the work. Just don't shoot anything high powered at all in it. Stay with all standard pressure ammo. You're revolver will thank you for it. (grins) Regards. Michaelson

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:26 pm

Michaelson wrote:He said nothing about the cylinder endshake? That's very odd to me, but maybe he is more forgiving regarding tolerances than I am.

That was one of the first things I brought up with you in mind. I told him I was concerned about the cylinder and showed him the shake. He told me that most all S&Ws do that. And, he has seen that on some of the newer ones.

Thanks for the advise, I plan on only using the standard 45 auto rounds in the gun.

I am still researching and discussing this matter with other people as I come into contact with them. I will post more information as I find it.

Cheers,
Pyro.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:41 pm

Well, like I said, I guess my tolerances are a bit different. I, too, have seen brand new Smiths come into the FHP armory in Talahassee, FL, when I worked in the studio there, and they were all rejected by the armorer for that mentioned end shake by the pallet load. True, law enforcement is a LOT stricter regarding weapon specs., and I tend to lean that way myself, as the weapons I carry I depend on to protect me and mine should the need ever arise. It's not set in stone, though I've owned a LOT of Smiths over the years, and NONE of them had the endshake yours has....except one, and it shaved lead so bad it made two holes in a target when shot. Needless to say, I gave it a quick trading. (grins) . A good, dependable revolver does not HAVE to meet this criteria to be a good weapon. He apparently believes it to be safe. I'm sure it is, but we each have our own opinions. I'd still suggest a second opinion, if you can find one, then move forward. You have a great revolver base to create a fine final weapon with. Regards. Michaelson

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:33 pm

Another thing to consider for anyone that wants an Indy Smith is what the gun is worth after you cut it down. I would never cut a collector’s gun, but for one that's already lost most of it's collector’s value, the cost of the modifications are probably recoupable if you resell the gun to a gearhead. Cheers

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:46 pm

Michaelson wrote:I'd still suggest a second opinion, if you can find one, then move forward.

Indeed. I 1.) don't have time to go to the range right now. and 2.) would like a semi-automatic to test for my CHL. Hmmm...who knows where I can get a good deal on a Browning?

Thanks,
Pyro.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 5:31 pm

Just snapped this quick pic. I put the gold grips on my Smith and Wesson and they look cool.

Pyro.

RonC · Post by **RonC** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:03 pm

Pyroxene, those Gold Medallion grips do look good on your 1917! Hopefully I'll have my 1917, shortened barrel and ramp sights installed, back next week.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:41 am

Well, the story of this S&W 1937 continues on and on.

I got my gun back from Tip Burns and he did a great job at replacing the front sight on the gun. The 1/2 moon sight fell off while shooting it in a field and was gone for good.

The sight is a Ruger sight that Tip found would work.

It probably could be filed down to be 100% screen accurate but it's close enough for my tastes. After I got it home, I removed a little of the finish from the sight to help it match the rest of the gun.

Thanks, Tip for your help. It was worth the wait. Keep up the good work.

Cheers,
Pyroxene