Question about a S&W .45 acp I found today

Wraith1031 · Post by **Wraith1031** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:50 pm

Ok, I went into a local gun store today and lo and behold in the used case is a S&W .45 acp pistol, swivel on the butt and all. Here is my delima it is NOT a 1917, the guy said it is basically the exact same gun but it is the commercial version and has a flat finish. He is asking $400 for it and it could stand to be refinished, but otherwise seems to be in great shape. Is it worth that not being an actual 1917 model or should I pass?

:

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:14 pm

It doesn't have to be a 1917. I have a S&W 1937 which is the exact same gun just produced for a different contract.

The "flat finish" sorta puzzles me a little. But the price is tempting.

Wraith1031 · Post by **Wraith1031** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:02 pm

From what I understand commercial just means it was not made for the military.

carebear · Post by **carebear** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:54 pm

Wraith1031 wrote:From what I understand commercial just means it was not made for the military.

Same gun. It'll be "screen accurate" except for the markings. If you have it reblued the current finish won't matter.

That's a good price, if I saw a clean and functinonal '17 or '37 or a Brazilian contract in a shop for $400 I'd buy it right then. They aren't making any more of any of the variations after all.

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:03 am

If the gun is in working order, that is a very reasonable price. For a top grade gun you might be looking at upwards of $600-700 I would imagine. Do a search on a gun auction site such as gunbroker and get some price comparisons. I just ran a search on gunbroker for a S&W 1937 and came up with an interesting Brazilian contract gun.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:59 am

The 1937's were essentially 1917's sold to the Brazilian government in 1937. The only real difference is the added markings on the revolver. Often you'll find the Brazillian contract guns cheaper than the 1917's. I saw one in a shop some years ago that had been refinished with a dull, matte finish (I would've reblued it) and for a great price, but I simply didn't have the cash at the time. $400 seems a good catch to me.

Lee Keppler · Post by **Lee Keppler** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:01 pm

The commercial model IS a 1917. If it's a .45 A.C.P. and the timing is good, no prob.

Wraith1031 · Post by **Wraith1031** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:38 am

I think I am going back tomorrow to pick it up. Thanks All!

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:26 pm

I was at Gander Mountain yesterday and saw a 1917 for $1,600. Is that outrageous or about right? Just to be clear it was in very good shape.

The Pilot · Post by **The Pilot** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:52 pm

OK, I've had to break out the Non-Volatile Random Access Storage Medium (the book).

According to Standard Catalog Of Smith & Wesson published in 2006:

Code: Select all

As New     $2,000
Exc+       $1,350
Exc        $  950
VG         $  700
Good       $  475
Fair       $  375
Poor       $  275

That's for the military version with the 1 - 209791 serial number range, which were produced from c.1917 to 1946.

A Post-War revolver was introduced in May of 1946. These had 'Magna' style grips and a blue commercial finish.

At the conclusion of WWII 10,000 frames and spare parts stamped in the 1930s were purchased back from the government, assembled and sold as late as 1949 and 1950 again as the Model 1917 Army. Believed fewer than 1000 commercial versions were made in a serial number range of S209792 - S210782 with an 'S' serial prefix to indicate the new postwar hammer block and continued within the 1917 serial number range.

Judging only by the grips, I'm guessing the gun in the OP isn't one of those. (Check the s/n.) Prices listed in this book for the 1946 - 1950 postwar model are:

Code: Select all

As New     $3,000
Exc        $1,800
VG         $1,000
Good       $  500
Fair       $  375
Poor       $  275

Magnum Jones · Post by **Magnum Jones** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:26 am

theinterchange wrote:I was at Gander Mountain yesterday and saw a 1917 for $1,600. Is that outrageous or about right? Just to be clear it was in very good shape.

In my opinion thats insane, You could get a Kimber run it through the shop and still have change left.

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:41 am

Magnum Jones wrote:
theinterchange wrote:I was at Gander Mountain yesterday and saw a 1917 for $1,600. Is that outrageous or about right? Just to be clear it was in very good shape.
In my opinion thats insane, You could get a Kimber run it through the shop and still have change left.

I was thinking it was more than a tad on the high side of things. I wasn't interested in buying it but was just curious for future reference.

ddibling · Post by **ddibling** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:51 am

I wouldn't sweat the M1917 thing if I were you. As I understand it, Indy's wasn't an M1917 anyway, it was a Hand Ejector Model II. ( I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong!

) But the HEII and the M1917 are almost dead ringers for each other so, personally, I don't think it's important enough to get hung up on. Personally, I bought one of the new re-issue M1917's because I intend to shoot it quite a bit and I was a little leery of buying a 90 year old gun to actually fire!

If you're not going to buy the real Stembridge (which you're not

) then you're only getting "close enough" anyway.

Dean

Wraith1031 · Post by **Wraith1031** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:52 am

Was it an old 1917 or the reissue that they started producing again?

ddibling · Post by **ddibling** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:22 pm

Wraith,

If you're asking me, I bought one of the new production models from S&W.

Dean

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:34 pm

and if asking me.. I'm not 100% sure. It was behind glass and employees were elusive so I couldn't get a real good look or hold it. I don't believe it was a reissue though, if so it looked old for it's age.

Luke Warmwater · Post by **Luke Warmwater** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:23 pm

theinterchange wrote:I was at Gander Mountain yesterday and saw a 1917 for $1,600. Is that outrageous or about right? Just to be clear it was in very good shape.

I got mine for half that. Don't bother.

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:58 pm

Yeah. I'm currently shopping around for a good 22 for target practice. I was searching GunBroker.com and saw that S&W makes a 22 clone of a 1917. Anyone know something about them?

Lee Keppler · Post by **Lee Keppler** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:32 am

The Bapty gun is a Second Model Hand Ejector Cal .455 webley. It was produced , along with some First Models(Triple Lock) for the British in WW1 for the USA's "Lend Lease" program. The US didn't enter the war until 1917, hence the creation of the Second Model HE in .45 ACP known as the 1917. This was done because there were not enough 1911 Govt. Models for every soldier. S&W came up with the half moon clip concept to allow revolvers to eject rimless cartridges. S&W made the 1917 on the "N" frame and Colt used the New Service for their 1917. After the war ended, S&W continued to make the 1917 Commercial, with silver medallion grips and some frame marking changes. In 1937, Brazil ordered a quantity of 1917 Commercials for military and police. These were quite rare until the 1990's when a large quantity were inported to the USA. When they packed them, they were just thrown or shoveled in crates (Yes, you read that right) and the already worn guns were further degraded. Many with the high gloss commercial finish were completly ruined, so many were bead blasted and matt blued. Yes, the 1917 Military, Commercial, and the 1937 Brizilian contract guns are all .45 ACP cal. and versions of the 1917.

Sorry about the long post, but this needed to be posted. Boy, are my fingers tired.

carebear · Post by **carebear** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:29 am

theinterchange wrote:Yeah. I'm currently shopping around for a good 22 for target practice. I was searching GunBroker.com and saw that S&W makes a 22 clone of a 1917. Anyone know something about them?

Are you referring to the Mdl. 22 Smith? That's a modern recreation of the .45 cal.

If you want a Hand Ejector in .22 LR you can get the real vintage deal, it's a medium (K) frame though, not the large "N".

K-22's are sweet shooters and you'll be shooting a piece of history.

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:33 am

carebear wrote:
theinterchange wrote:Yeah. I'm currently shopping around for a good 22 for target practice. I was searching GunBroker.com and saw that S&W makes a 22 clone of a 1917. Anyone know something about them?
Are you referring to the Mdl. 22 Smith? That's a modern recreation of the .45 cal.

If you want a Hand Ejector in .22 LR you can get the real vintage deal, it's a medium (K) frame though, not the large "N".

K-22's are sweet shooters and you'll be shooting a piece of history.

Ahh, ok I just did a search on S&W's site and it is indeed a model 22. My bad.

The one you're talking about sounds good. I was looking at a Smith model 617 which is a 10 round .22LR [the 6" barrel not the 4"] What's the model of the hand ejector?

carebear · Post by **carebear** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:48 pm

"Hand Ejector" is just what Smith called their earliest swing out cylinder revolvers.

As Smith created more and more versions in different calibers they went to a standardized numbering system.

For example, the "6XX" means it's in stainless steel.

If you aren't concerned about it being "Indy" style just search generally under Smith .22 revolvers.

K-22 and .22 Kit Gun are a couple common descriptions that refer to a type, not a particular model number.

Your choices will be defined by:
finish (blue or stainless),
frame size and type (small "J" or medium "K/L", square or round butt), material (steel or alloy or titanium),
barrel length and sights (fixed or adjustable)
and capacity (the older models will just be 6 shooters).

You need to refine exactly what you're looking for, the best way to do that is to go look and figure out what you like.

Then, for other "classic" makers, you can check out the Colt's and H&R's as well.

Fortunately .22s are cheap to buy and shoot, there's always room for one more.

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:08 pm

That's why I'm interested in a .22 cheapness of shooting. I'm not overly familiar with handguns but am learning. I've been around hunting rifles more.

I was thinking you had a particular model in mind when you were describing it. haha

I've been looking at my options and really like the feel of revolvers, though the Sig Mosquito is a nice handling gun.

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:34 pm

The Smith & Wesson model 22's actually shoot 45 ACP just like the 1917. It has nothing to do with the 22 caliber rifle "plinker" round. It's just the name of the model group that are reproductions of some of their old revolvers. I'm not sure if you were confused over that or not, but you at least had me confused as to what you might or might not know about them.

Kaplan · Post by **Kaplan** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:01 am

1917 commercial model = Hand Ejector 2nd model

As far as I know these terms are analogous.

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:39 pm

bigrex wrote:The Smith & Wesson model 22's actually shoot 45 ACP just like the 1917. It has nothing to do with the 22 caliber rifle "plinker" round. It's just the name of the model group that are reproductions of some of their old revolvers. I'm not sure if you were confused over that or not, but you at least had me confused as to what you might or might not know about them.

I initially thought it was a .22 caliber.. but carebear and a visit to Smith's site cleared it up. It was a confusing listing on gunbroker.com that give me this impression. I should have did more research.. I thought it sounded too good to be true!