The future of Indy shirts & trousers

schwammy · Post by **schwammy** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 10:48 pm

I recall somebody around here predicting that 2003 would go down in the annals of gearheaddom as the Year of the Hat. What nobody anticipated was that it would also be the last year we would be able to purchase Noel Howard's fine shirts and trousers from MBA. Since that beloved entity is passing into history, I move that we address the future of commercially produced Indiana Jones shirts and trousers. A new source will appear, I've no doubt. What I'm wondering is, what can we as a community do to help things along? Do we establish a blue ribbon panel to examine the alternatives? If so, I nominate Dalexs, Pyroxene, and Rick Blaine.

Is someone already planning on picking up where MBA left off? If so, would someone kindly let me know so I don't waste any more energy worrying about it?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield the floor.

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:14 pm

Schwammy,

My concerns have been, of late, that any supplier to pick up where MBA leaves off, will not, and can never be the 'original'. Those who miss the opportunity to get THE gear from Noel may perhaps find Very Close, or screen accurate, but once Noel says his goodbyes, then that's it. Like having a FS instead of a Wested. Many here feel that there are better, more durable or screen accurate jackets, but I will always cherish my Westeds since they came from Peter himself, original supplier to the Raiders films. Somebody will have to provide the costumes for IJIV, so whoever takes over for Noel in that capacity will have some very big shoes to fill, and will have to be prepared for the onset of Gearheads to expect them to fulfill our needs. Yessiree, very big shoes to fill, indeed.

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:18 am

I'd also concur to those three: Dalexs, Dan (Rick Blaine), and Pyro. Between the three of them we'll get the right colors everyone wants (stone for ROTLA and kahki for ToD/LC), LLBean/Cabela's stitching & durability, and screen accuracy all in one!

Rabittooth · Post by **Rabittooth** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:58 am

I can only hope that the whispers on the wind about Peter and Wested doing shirts and trousers might be true.
Seems like our best chance at getting accurate stuff at good prices, and best of all...by an IndyGear guru.
Here's to hoping...(and praying)

-Rabittooth

schwammy · Post by **schwammy** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:53 pm

Indiana Gater wrote:My concerns have been, of late, that any supplier to pick up where MBA leaves off, will not, and can never be the 'original'. Those who miss the opportunity to get THE gear from Noel may perhaps find Very Close, or screen accurate, but once Noel says his goodbyes, then that's it.

That's the way I feel. Noel Howard's shirts are of extremely high quality (read luxurious), despite the somewhat misleading write-up in the shirts section of Indygear. That writer seems to doubt Noel's word that the shirts are made of mercerized Swiss cotton, suggesting instead that they might have polyester in them. Believe me, I have worn my MBA shirt down to bare threads. No shirt with polyester in it ends up ripping that easily. Okay, so it's not exactly rugged. But come on, think of what it was designed for - daily wear in Tunisia. Iit's a tropical-weight cotton, and you can have a lightweight fabric or you can have a durable fabric, but it's pretty hard to have both. Yes, out of the box it is scratchy like a dress cotton/poly shirt, but once broken in, you'd be hard pressed to find a softer, more comfy shirt. And then it'll rip on ya.

Having said that, I don't know that the MBA shirt is any more 'authentic' or 'original,' than any other bit of gear. Raiders came out in '81. I believe MBA started selling shirts and trousers around 2000? That's a gap of almost 20 years. I think Noel was a supervisor at Bermans & Nathan, which did some costume work on the films, but the original Raiders shirt was designed by Andre Domentakis. When MBA began producing shirts, they had to copy them from an original costume, just as any other vendor would have to do. So if you want to be precise, an Andre Domentakis shirt would be 'authentic.' Although I've seen one of Andre's shirts on ebay and it was made of a different, thicker fabric. So material-wise, Noel's copy seems much more accurate.

Now color-wise, I've never been happy with the MBA shirt. For starters, I'm sorry, but the buttons I see onscreen in Raiders and Temple O' Gloom are green, not tan. The Raiders buttons are a lighter green, but they're still green. Also, that particular shade of khaki material (which, curiously enough, MBA describes on the receipt as 'green/beige') looks hideous on me and makes me look like some kind of Nazi janitor. The dye removal process helps immensely, and Dalexs's dye recipe is awesome, but I worry that dye removal may also weaken the fabric, which is micro-thin anyway. My old MBA shirt, which is a little over a year old, has ripped twice and is, at this point, essentially a rag. But I got a new one in the mail today.

When I heard MBA was going out of business, I of course wanted to buy 10 shirts. But if Rabittooth's Wested rumor proves to be true, I'd almost rather hold off and get my shirts from that hallowed establishment. For one thing, knowing Peter's accomodating ways, he might be more likely to change the color to something we can all agree on. Maybe Rick Blanie could finally get all his changes made on details that even I don't notice. And Wested prices are always so reasonable. I guess time will tell. If only September weren't looming so close!

Rick Blaine · Post by **Rick Blaine** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 4:38 pm

Things are happening among us that are mysteries now...

I've seen shirt posts glisten in the stars. All those moments will be lost in time-- Time to die

Modified Blade Runner quote

P.S. I have some phone calls to make.

Canasta · Post by **Canasta** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:14 pm

Well, I had placed an order with Noel last week and gave him a call today and spoke with his secretary. She let me know that my order was going out tomorrow (Friday).
I inquired about the closing date and if the planned on continuing to provide the indy gear after that date. She replied (and I paraphrase)
At this point Noel is trying to decide if it will continue or be turned over to someone else, but the decision does not look favorable considering the cloths originated with Noel. It's quite a hard decision. Another problem is that the material for the trousers is no longer available and the pants that are in stock are now all that's available. (She told me they only had one or two pair of 36" waist - I told her I wanted one of those pair.) and that I would most likely be placing another order next week.

Anyway. that's the info I got today.
Noel is suposed to be emailing me tomorrow. Perhaps more then.

All the best!

C

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:55 pm

schwammy wrote:I nominate Dalexs, Pyroxene, and Rick Blaine.

Minnesota_Jones wrote:I'd also concur to those three: Dalexs, Dan (Rick Blaine), and Pyro. Between the three of them we'll get the right colors everyone wants (stone for ROTLA and kahki for ToD/LC), LLBean/Cabela's stitching & durability, and screen accuracy all in one!

I am truly honored to be included in such elite company. I have often thought of this idea long before this announcement. It would be an honor to work with anyone willing to tackle such a project.

High Respects,
Pyroxene

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:57 am

Things are happening among us that are mysteries now...

We just hope that they arn't mysteries to you... we're hoping you or one of the other members of the pannel can pull something together in the last minute.

skywlkr · Post by **skywlkr** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:08 pm

Perhaps Noel can be persuaded to sell his patterns for the pants and shirt.
Luke

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:49 pm

I was always under the impression that Noel Howard's gear were indeed authentic, seeing that he had some of the original pieces of gear used in the films in his shop.....

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:41 pm

So if you want to be precise, an Andre Domentakis shirt would be 'authentic.' Although I've seen one of Andre's shirts on ebay and it was made of a different, thicker fabric. So material-wise, Noel's copy seems much more accurate.

(Authentic - adj. - c : made or done the same way as an original) By definition, I believe Noel's garmets are authentic. I am willing bet the shirts even differed from movie-to-location-to-actor-to-stuntman-to-stand in.

Cheers,
Pyro.

Post by **Dalexs** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:28 pm

Sorry for jumping in on this so late, but I'm still trying to find which boxes my gear is in!

Like Pyroxene, I'm honored to be named in this group.

And until I find a job, I can take on some of this responsibilty.

What we need to do is come up with a criteria for these shirts.

What exactly do we want the shirt to be made from?
Color, well thats a no brainer, I nominate my recipe for a warm gray!
We should be able to find something thats close.

And no offense, but we should only concentrate on one design right now,
ie Raiders.

And I agree, we should see about getting hold of Mr. Howards patterns.
(He might sell or release them to us upon certain stipulations).

Pyro did a great job getting a shirt custom made, BUT my impression is that the shirt seemed a little dressy (material wise). I could be wrong.

I would love to see an LLBean type material, but in right color and design.

Those are great shirts in terms of feel and weight.

Comments?

Dalexs

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 9:25 am

I agree about the LLBean style material. 100% cotton, very breathable. I love both the LLBean and the Cabela's for their durability (construction and stitching) as a "safari" shirt. But get the correct color, add the front pleats, correct placement of the epaulets, etc etc and if we could keep the cost in line we could have a winner. I'd pay up to $100 for a "good" Indy Shirt if it was the right color and right size and built like a tank.

schwammy · Post by **schwammy** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:15 am

I've never had an L.L. Cool Bean-J shirt, so I can't comment on the fabric. But another thing I don't like about re-dyeing the Noel Howard shirt is that you lose all the printing on the MBA label. Well, not the MBA logo itself, but all the size info and the details about which film the shirt is patterned after.

Indiana Janice · Post by **Indiana Janice** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:04 am

Peter at Wested said this in an e-mail to me:
"Noel Howard may well team up with me, or do it privately or let me take over
If and when he decides."
Kinda vague, but still gives hope.
Janice

buletman · Post by **buletman** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:06 pm

"Noel Howard may well team up with me, or do it privately or let me take over
If and when he decides."

May I be one of the first to say "YES!"

Has anyone seen Old School? Well, if you watch the part where Will Ferrell's character gets shot in the neck by the tranqualizer, The guy from american pie goes "Yes!" in a very funnny way...that is the way I'm saying it right now...

Yes...

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:53 pm

buletman · Post by **buletman** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:34 pm

thank you whipwarrior

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:13 pm

Hey! Who added that third quote to my profile? I didn't do that! I hope it was Michaelson, because he's my gun guru. Anybody else gets ten lashes with a bullwhip...

-Dale

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:17 pm

Who, ME?

Sorry, couldn't help myself.....High regards. Michaelson

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:40 pm

That's cool. As long as it's you, I don't mind. I've been freaking out because of all of this eBay hacker stuff going on, and I was worried for a second.

)

-Dale

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:47 pm

I just couldn't let that Cromwell character have the last word, don't 'cha know?

Regards. Michaelson

Hakaider · Post by **Hakaider** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 5:48 pm

Oh no! Noel Howard is going out of business?

Does anyone know if he will continue to privately take orders after he closes up shop?

I know that I can't order off the rack from him because of my size, ( 6 foot 3 inches) so my shirts and trousers has to be customized by him. The average 5 foot 10 inches person's size wouldn't fit me unfortunately.

If he's out of stock for big people...I hope he'll team up with Peter soon.

*Bangs head on the wall, pulls hair and jumps off from a 2 foot cliff*

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 6:40 pm

Hakaider,

I am 6'2", 270Lbs, and NH XXL shirts are a tad too big for me, but comfortable. The off-the-peg trousers are made extra long for a hem, so you only need to concern yourself with waist size, and he has waist to 46".

I'd suggest you get orderin, cuz once they're gone, they're GONE!!!

(unless Peter takes over

)

jedidentist · Post by **jedidentist** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 6:15 pm

Hakaider wrote:
I know that I can't order off the rack from him because of my size, ( 6 foot 3 inches) so my shirts and trousers has to be customized by him. The average 5 foot 10 inches person's size wouldn't fit me unfortunately.

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

I just placed an order last week and he had a size 32" unfinished leg Raiders pants left. I just got them today. I'm 6'3" and after I make my own hem, there should still be at least 1" left. So, if you're worried about the leg length you should be okay.

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:26 pm

"I just placed an order last week. I just got them today"

WHAT!!??? Noel sent me an email THREE weeks ago today to say my order was sent, and am still waiting, and am getting no reply to emails!! sunuvagun! I've never waitied this long for NH stuf to arrive.

commodorekorns · Post by **commodorekorns** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 9:14 pm

This is my first post so hello. Just wanted to point out that I just placed my first (sadly) last order with Noel after being spurred to action by the news that he is closing up. I ordered the LC pants and a Raiders shirt. Noel was helpful in sizing and luckily had what I hope turns out to be my size still in stock. Not sure about everyone else's experiences in terms of turn around time but I placed the order on Monday and Noel emailed to say it was shipped on Tuesday and even provided a tracking number so I can keep tabs on the progress. Is this not something that he normally provides?

Cheers

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 9:42 pm

commodorekorns,

First, let me welcome you to our little family. This is a great bunch of people with a similar interest and I assure you that you will feel quite welcome by all.

As to your inquiry about a tracking number, I have emailed Noel requesting one, and hope that I receive either it, or my parcel very shortly. I must say that I have ordered from Noel no less than three times prior, and arrival times have been quite fast. This is the first time I have had to be concerned with the wait. Plus, I am anxious, so that makes three weeks feel like 3 months!

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 7:37 am

MYSTERY SOLVED!

Apparently MBA did not update my address, and the parcel went to my former location. It arrived here in Canada June 16. A mere 6 days after being sent. If I actually got it then, I would have been very impressed with the delivery time. As it is, I get to go pick it up later today from the courier 'Bad Address' dept. I must point out that Noel was fantastic in his locating the parcel for me, and integral in helping me contact the courier company and getting to go pick it up this morning. Authentic Gear, and amazing customer service to boot....truly a man who's business will be missed.

Post by **Mike** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 8:47 am

Gater,

Glad this has finally turned out well for you. Noel's service has always been top-notch, so no surprise there. And this may be a valuable lesson for others. Always supply your information with each new order, even if it's from a vendor previously used. Might save you the headache Gater had.

OK, class dismissed.

Mike

Arkansas Smith · Post by **Arkansas Smith** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:28 pm

I must say that I have ordered from Noel no less than three times prior, and arrival times have been quite fast. This is the first time I have had to be concerned with the wait. Plus, I am anxious, so that makes three weeks feel like 3 months

With the recent news of his closing, don't you know that Noel Howard is probably swimming in orders right now? I know I cracked open the piggy bank to get a few last minute items. It would not suprise me to wait a little longer, but no worries!

Arkansas Smith

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:34 pm

Well, belt is in hand, and I am VERY pleased. The whip seems loose in the whip holder, though. I'll have to coil it tighter to see if it doesn't slide down to the floor when I walk. It is odd to have a distressed piece of gear that smells of brand new leather.

As for Arkansas, the order was processed and shipped within days it was placed. Processing the order was never a problem. It was the time delay between him sending it on the 10th, and me getting it today. That was a postal error, as it was sent to an old address in the system. Although I forwarded the new address via e-mail, I understand that mistakes can be made (especially with an automated system). It WOULD have been here in 6 calendar days if it were not for the mix-up.

Indiana*Jones · Post by **Indiana*Jones** » Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:21 pm

[quote My concerns have been, of late, that any supplier to pick up where MBA leaves off, will not, and can never be the 'original'. Those who miss the opportunity to get THE gear from Noel may perhaps find Very Close, or screen accurate, but once Noel says his goodbyes, then that's it. Like having a FS instead of a Wested. Many here feel that there are better, more durable or screen accurate jackets, but I will always cherish my Westeds since they came from Peter himself, original supplier to the Raiders films. Somebody will have to provide the costumes for IJIV, so whoever takes over for Noel in that capacity will have some very big shoes to fill, and will have to be prepared for the onset of Gearheads to expect them to fulfill our needs. Yessiree, very big shoes to fill, indeed[/quote]

I agreee 100 %

Regards,
Indiana*Jones