Floppiest Felt?

mufflowne · Post by **mufflowne** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:35 pm

Hey guys,
does anyone have enough hats to compare, which of the hatmakers here makes the floppiest raiders hat?

I have this one felt hat I got in prague which is wonderfully floppy. I really want a Raiders hat but I want it as floppy as it used to be back in the day.

Are ABs floppy? How about JP's?

Oh and to those of you who've ordered from JP before, do you think he'd ok a request to put less felt stiffener into a hat?

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:43 pm

I believe that Optimo's are quite floppy

...but don't quote me on that as i don't know from personal experiance.

gabrielle · Post by **gabrielle** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:52 pm

Could you get the right degree of floppiness by kneading the hat like in Keppler's video? When I got my Keppler it was stiff, but after kneading several times and sitting on it, then kneading again to work the wrinkles out it's quite soft now...

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:00 pm

I think the floppiness of the felt depends largely on the thinness of the felt...again don't quote me

...but Optimo would be my guess, but there hats are quite pricey from what i hear. Alternatively if you got in contact with a custom hatter im sure they could sort you out with a lighter and thinner hat body.

Cheers

r.deckard · Post by **r.deckard** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:02 pm

I own a custom made Indy Optimo and it's pretty darn floppy. And a great fedora to boot!

mufflowne · Post by **mufflowne** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:07 pm

I don't think the thickness of the felt has anything to do with the floppyness to be honest. I've got this one rabbit Tonak I bought in Prague in september and it's all kinds of floppy, actually.

Optimo's way expensive....maybe one day...when I'm rich.

Honolulu Jones · Post by **Honolulu Jones** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:08 pm

Pardon the naive question: were the "original" hats from ROTLA less stiff than later versions or the ones generally produced now? In other words, how/why is floppy preferable? I'm not challenging the premise, just curious. Thanks.

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:24 pm

Yeah far more floppy theres a couple of scenes in raiders were you can see the wind distorting the brim...compare the start of Raiders when ford gets drenched his HJ doesnt hold its shape...while in temple going through the rapids it still holds its shape...Felt that is thinner and lighter will be floppier than a denser heavier felt...stiffner or no stiffner.

Cheers

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:32 pm

I would say optimos and HJs are the floppiest Indy hats around. For a non-Indy, there's somebody with a super thin felt, but he doesn't do Indy hats. Plus, the felt hasn't been around long enough to know how it will handle the elements.

Honolulu Jones · Post by **Honolulu Jones** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:43 pm

Thanks. Since I'm in the market for a first hat, can the ABs, Camptowns, Peter Bros etc. hats be loosened up to become more floppy, or are they just more stiff and will stay that way? Can you crush them and re-shape them to make them less stiff without destroying the hat? Thanks.

Kokopelli · Post by **Kokopelli** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:56 pm

The floppiest one yet is the Jello Fedora. -Unless you get it with fruit in it. The fruit gives it too much body.

Tron7960 · Post by **Tron7960** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:04 pm

My Magnoli HJ is pretty "floppy" compared to my AB and Federation. I don't know if it's the floppiest Raiders hat around, but it's in the game.

mufflowne · Post by **mufflowne** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:29 pm

Tron, that's good to hear. I've been considering that option.

Does Magnoli custom make the hats when you order them or does he have some pre-made ones in sizes in stock?

Tron7960 · Post by **Tron7960** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:36 pm

My understanding is they come through Steve Delk's hands before they get on you're head. I don't know what sizes he keeps in stock but there is some wait due to Steve's involvement. Mine was just over 9 weeks if I recall.

Spatterdash · Post by **Spatterdash** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:36 pm

Honolulu Jones wrote:Thanks. Since I'm in the market for a first hat, can the ABs, Camptowns, Peter Bros etc. hats be loosened up to become more floppy, or are they just more stiff and will stay that way? Can you crush them and re-shape them to make them less stiff without destroying the hat? Thanks.

Stiffener will loosen up, and thick felt will as well, after a time. Steve Delk at Adventurebilt has said in the past that he takes the back end of a hatbrush and gives the entire hat a good beating all over. Other say they sit on the hat for a few moments. Bending and crushing and squeezing the hat with your hands will help a lot. The felt can handle it just fine, and you'll be able to reshape it by dampening it with a little cool water if you go overboard.

Remember, stiffener reactes to heat and moisture, so once you steam or iron the hat, that stiffener will wake back up full force. It will be some time before the stiffener doesn't respond to steam, but no, no hat will remain cardboard stiff unless handled with kid gloves.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:40 pm

I have a AB that I wear slomst every day. It is very floppy right now. Much more than when I first got it. The HJ are made by Steve Delk from HJ products.

Honolulu Jones · Post by **Honolulu Jones** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:40 pm

Spatterdash -- thanks, that's very helpful.

Am I right in thinking that rabbit is a bit softer (and floppier) than beaver, or is that wrong?

gabrielle · Post by **gabrielle** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:42 pm

gabrielle wrote:Could you get the right degree of floppiness by kneading the hat like in Keppler's video? When I got my Keppler it was stiff, but after kneading several times and sitting on it, then kneading again to work the wrinkles out it's quite soft now...

Ahem gentlemen...cough cough

Honolulu Jones · Post by **Honolulu Jones** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:13 pm

Does anyone have one of the Peter Bros. "soft rabbit blend" hats -- are those any floppier than your standard lid?

http://www.petersbros.com/INDY_CUSTOM/Default.htm

Han Jones · Post by **Han Jones** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:15 pm

My new Optimo is the very floppy. I have never had another hat like it. I think I might use so stiffener on it.

WinstonWolf359 · Post by **WinstonWolf359** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:32 pm

Any hat will soften up with wear and handling. Even before I first bashed either of my last two Federations I worked the felt around in my hands to soften them up. I've also sanded them a few times to help solve the characteristic fuzziness the Akubras have and that further softened up both hats.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:10 am

The floppiness of felt is due to either zero stiffener, or a very small amount of it added to the felt bodies during manufacture.

Most felt needs 'some" stiffener so the hat will look like a hat. And a hat can just be too floppy, in as much as a falling leaf will change your crease job.

The really really floppy hats won't keep the creases looking the way you put them in, and you will spend most of your time re-creasing the hat. So, there is a fine line here.

With that said, hats that seem just a bit too stiff can be worked with the hands to soften up. The shellac welds together with the application of heat and or steam. By kneading the hat with your hands you break this 'weld" and the hat softens up. You won't hurt an AB by doing this, or most other hats.

I have received a few hats back, the early ones I made that were medium stiff when I made them, and the years and wear made the hats really soft and floppy. Much of the shellac was washed out apparently. So if your AB started out a little less soft, rest assured it won't always be that way. Just wear em and they break in really nicely. The key here is to wear em.

Fedora

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:52 am

Here's a sequence of shots from Raiders that shows the floppiness of the Raider fedora:

Mr. Rundquist posted this a few years ago when the floppy debate was on.

Piker · Post by **Piker** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:58 pm

citRon wrote:The floppiest one yet is the Jello Fedora. -Unless you get it with fruit in it. The fruit gives it too much body.

Best guffaw I have run across today! Made my day!!

mufflowne · Post by **mufflowne** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:38 pm

Fedora, thanks for your input, it's always great to get your opinion on the matter.

My tonak feels pretty #### floppy. I've steamed some shape into it and I'm guessing I woke some of the stiffener where it counts, because it gets crushed and I can pop it right back where I want it to be.

BUT, the Tonak also has a cotton sweatband. That would probably also make a huge difference, wouldn't it?

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:41 pm

I have an Akubra federation that is the floppiest hat I've ever owned. A little gust of wind makes the brim flap around. Wear the @#$% out of an Akubra, and you can get some serious flop.

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:41 pm

I have just recently bought a Black vintage HJ and its really floppy...the brim distorts so easily compared to my akubra..

Cheers

Honolulu Jones · Post by **Honolulu Jones** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:07 am

So...seems the consensus is that HJ makes the floppiest and the Akubra the runner up. Anyone care to rank the others? How do the Campmaster, Keppler, ABs, etc. compare?

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:29 am

I have one Optimo Indy and it's pretty floppy. Rundquist is the original expert on this subject. It's a summer weight felt, very thin and I wound up applying a lot of stiffener to the brim to get it the way I wanted it.

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:29 am

Honolulu im not sure on the HJ as it is now...their current felt is thicker than there past felt that is not supplied to them enymore...but my vintage HJ is very very floppy...

Honolulu Jones · Post by **Honolulu Jones** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:54 am

The Avaitor wrote:Honolulu im not sure on the HJ as it is now...their current felt is thicker than there past felt that is not supplied to them enymore...but my vintage HJ is very very floppy...

Thanks Avaitor, sounds like you're lucky to have one of the originals....

mufflowne · Post by **mufflowne** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:47 am

Checked out some Borsalinos at my local hat store today...they're as floppy as god made them! One of the borsalinos even had a nice straight sided block shape but the crown was too short for an indy hat...