Trouble with the Circus Crack

[Mulceber]

Since I got my IOAB, I've been practicing whenever I can. I bought the "Whip-cracking made easy" video but I'm finding it REALLY difficult right now to do the circus crack. I follow the instructions about bringing your arm up to 12 o'clock, letting the whip travel back to 3 o'clock and bringing the arm forward to 9 o'clock but I'm barely ever getting a real crack - mainly just a half-hearted whistling sound.

Does anybody have any advice on how to do this one? I know it's not a problem with the whip since I can do at least one other crack. Thanks, :junior: -M

[Weston]

Are you talking about the "overhead crack"? You can pull off a "forward crack", or "forward throw" with the whip in a stationary position on the ground straight out behind you. The best way I can describe a forward throw is, start in that position and then flick the whip forward as though it were a stick with an apple stuck on it and you were trying to fling it off. Sounds wierd, I know, but if you close your eyes and picture the motion, it is very much the same.

The "overhead crack" is a little different. If that's what your attempting, let us know and we'll try to help.

Weston

[hollywood1340]

From what you've discribed, your attempting the "Circus Crack", the "Forward Crack" or "Forward Flick" is done witht the whip starting behind you and pushing it forward over your shoulder. For the Circus Crack, make sure the whip is straight as you bring the arm to 12 and as it moves to 3. Without moving your body, watch the tip of the whip with your head, when it's behind and beside you, it's time to reverse the motion. If I find time, I will put up a vid. LOL

MOD NOTE!
Again, I think a sticky regarding a common *board* terminology for the basic figures would be a good idea. Even using Adam's "The Many Ways to Crack a Whip" as a starting point. Not so that we can be "right" but so that we're all on the same page when it comes to the name used.

[Weston]

Ah, hollywood is right, now that I read your post again.

Weston

[LemonLauren]

Mulceber,

I really have no idea what might be going wrong, but I may have a couple suggestions you could try out. If you're still having trouble and you can't get someone to help you in person, you might consider posting a video of yourself trying it - then we could probably do a better job of troubleshooting.

But anyways, first idea: You swing the whip up so the fall swings back to 3 o'clock. When it reaches 3 o'clock, you swing your arm back down like a clock arm to 9 o'clock. My suggestion is that you don't stop your arm at 9 o'clock - keep letting it swing all the way down to 6 o'clock or more. Think of it like a follow-through, and let your follow-through motion drag your whip on the ground through the grass so it ends up stretched out behind you.

Second idea: Make sure you're starting the whole process with your arm down at 6 o'clock and the whip stretched out straight behind you in the grass. This isn't necessary to get this crack, but it tends to make it a little easier in the beginning.

Third idea: Experiment with the timing. Maybe you're not letting the fall end of the whip swing all the way to get to 3 o'clock. Maybe you are jerking your arm forward towards the 9 o'clock to quickly. Play around with how fast or slow you move your arm during the different steps.

Keep in mind that the whole reason this crack works is because the whip stays in one plane - imagine you're standing next to a wall, and the whole time you're doing the crack, every part of the whip stays the same distance from the surface of the wall.

I hope this helps a little. It's a fun crack to learn, particularly for getting into cutting targets. ) Good luck!

-Lauren

[thatguyno1]

Watch this video and see where the whip is before you move your arm forward for the crack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnUQEYFt51o

I'm also a beginner and I found this video is very helpful. For the Circus Crack - notice that the handle of the whip is at 3 o'clock but the whip itself has travelled to the 6 o'clock position before Bernie moves his arm forward for the crack. The whip is actually touching the ground beside his leg when his arm goes forward. Maybe you are moving forward too soon. Try giving the whip more time to come around and get next to your leg before going forward. Also, it is not just arm motion forward there's a little wrist snap in there too. Good luck.

Paul ô¿ô

[Mulceber]

Ah, sorry if I referred to it the wrong way. I'll edit the original post to avoid the confusion.

Also, the free strands of the cracker started to get tangled in the whip so I trimmed them back to where it's knotted off at the end. Could that be affecting it? Here's a picture of the modified cracker.



:junior: -M

[WhipDude]

Greatly. You for surely need a new popper. When the end becomes that little, it becomes difficult to crack.

[Kiscien]

I think that using, one way of naming the cracks will be very good. Typical australian names uses in whipcracking, are very clear. Few of basic cracks, you got in Winrich's videos. 3 twohanded cracks, you got on my profile. I still try to add a new routines, but I ain't got time for now.

And my 5 cents about cracking way. All cracks(well... maybe much of them ) you can make using only your wrist, and keeping your arm still. In cattleman's crack(I think it's circus crack), keep your arm straight in front of you. Try to give speed to the whip, using you wrist only. Keep 90 degrees between your tors, and arm. When whip is behind you, just aim handle in whatever point in front of your eyes.

This will help you with wrists. Today I will attach short video with it, to make it all completely clear.

Kind Regards,
Karol "Kiscien" Bilecki
http://kiscienwhips.knives.pl(still in re-build)

[sladerlmc77]

I'm also a beginner, and was also having trouble with the circus crack, with almost the exact symptoms you describe.

I was also using the whip-cracking made easy video for instruction, (as well as a number of Youtube videos that members have posted).

What I found was that I would bring my arm up to the 12 o'clock position, wait for the fall to reach approximately the 3 o'clock position, and then bring the arm back down to 9 o'clock, with a wrist flick at the end.

Try as I might, I could only get a "sizzling" sound as the whip cut through the air, but I couldn't make the crack.

I'd try for 15-20 minutes, before once I'd accidentally get a crack. Then I'd spend another 15-20 minutes trying to figure out what I'd done differently to make the accidental crack.

I found two things that were helpful.

1. The less I worked the whip, the more likely I was to get a crack. It's true what they say - the whip should crack itself. It seems to take very little effort to make a thunderous crack, and the more you try and force it, the less likely you are to get the pop.

2. I'm not sure if this is improper or not, but I noticed at one point that I could never get a crack when stopping WRIST movement at 12 o'clock. Basically, I start from the 9 o'clock position, bring the arm up to 12:00, and let the thong fall back to 3:00 before moving forward - but I was holding my wrist straight up at 12:00.

With this technique, I could spend all day trying to make throws, but I'd never get the snap.

I noticed at some point that if I held the arm straight at 12:00 o'clock but let the wrist continue to follow through to the 3:00 o'clock position (moving the wrist in a full 180 degree arc), then brough the arm back down to 9:00 o'clock, snapping the wrist at the end of the reverse-traversal, I'd get the pop every time.

It's AMAZING how much the speed of the whip increases when the whip traverses that full 180 degrees...I think the problem I'd been having prior to trying this was that the whip just wasn't quite making the sound barrier...I think the "sizzle" was indicating I was going fast...just not fast enough.

Not sure if this is the way I'm SUPPOSED to be doing the crack or not...but it certainly made a difference for me.


Lorn

[Mulceber]

Wow, thanks for all the advice guys.

@ sladerlmc77 - I'll definitely try moving my hand in the 180 degree arc.

@ Whipdude - okay, I'll change the cracker post-haste. Any suggestions on a good material for a replacement cracker? :junior: -M

[WhipDude]

Have you been practicing the forward crack with that popper the whole time like that? If so then, a new popper will make great difference.
Good material? You want to go the simple way that will save lots of money in the long run by making your own or by purchasing them already made? If you want to purchase them pre-made, then I'd suggest nylon. Last a long time, give a great crack. Robert Duke would be an excellent person to go to.
http://www.dukewhips.com/
Looks like he's updating his website so you can't view his price on poppers but last time I checked, you get like 15 poppers that are nylon (be sure to specify nylon as well as the length of your whip) for like $5-10 if I recall correctly. That's the best deal compared to other makers.
However, if you make your own, you can pay $14 for a spool of nylon thread from J. Strain and get yourself a nice weight and start making your own poppers which is cheaper in the long run and you will have them handy the spool will last a long time.

[Mulceber]

Have you been practicing the forward crack with that popper the whole time like that?

No, I cut it down when I started having trouble - thought it might be the problem. Guess I really screwed the pooch on that one. :junior: -M

[Vegeta]

Have you been practicing the forward crack with that popper the whole time like that?

No, I cut it down when I started having trouble - thought it might be the problem. Guess I really screwed the pooch on that one. :junior: -M

If your cracker is hitting another part of your whip then it's an issue of your form being off.....Just be pacient and practice a lot. It will come in time. You definately need to buy some new crackers though.

EDIT:Wow...I must have been drunk when I wrote this reply...half the letters were missing Fixed

[WhipDude]

Have you tried watching some of the youtube videos such as Adam Winrichs? My suggestion is that you should go on youtube and watch some of the pro's. That's how I've primarily learned. Harrison F. isn't exactly the best example considering he's not holding the whip correctly among many other things. But Winrich, Bernie, some of those people have good videos on youtube to watch and replicate them step for step. Trial and error. It's also one of those cracks that isn't the easiest to get down. It took me a while when I originally started cracking as well.

[hollywood1340]

Have you tried watching some of the youtube videos such as Adam Winrichs? My suggestion is that you should go on youtube and watch some of the pro's. That's how I've primarily learned. Harrison F. isn't exactly the best example considering he's not holding the whip correctly among many other things. But Winrich, Bernie, some of those people have good videos on youtube to watch and replicate them step for step. Trial and error. It's also one of those cracks that isn't the easiest to get down. It took me a while when I originally started cracking as well.

He's not?

[WhipDude]

Oops. Edit. Maybe I should better clarify myself. In the shots I've seen up close, it appears to be that he's choking up on the handle instead of using the "ball & hitch method" and I've noticed that a lot of members around here who get into whipcracking tend to think you grip the handle instead of gripping the end and using part of the handle. Make more sense Hollywood?

I went back and looked at some of the scenes with Harrison and some look correct while others don't. Which is why it's not a fantastic reference because the fast motions and not the greatest clarity compared to a person on video explaining it and see 1 constant shot.

[hollywood1340]

And there is no good whip work in the whole movie. Not the best reference material indeed.

[BullWhipBorton]

Mulceber, Like Harrison Ford said when he was learn how to use the bullwhip for Raiders of the lost Ark “If anybody could explain it in words, I'm sure it would be a lot easier to do.” You've gotten good advice so far, but I'll try my best to explain it too. For the circus crack/ Gypsy crack/ Cattlemen’s crack. Hold the whip comfortably in your hand, with the ball knot resting in your palm to give you a somewhat flexible connection to the whip. Like so


Align the whip so that its trailing on the ground straight out behind you. Swing your arm up in a forward fast-paced easy motion so your hand ends up above your shoulder, bend your elbow and bring your hand back toward your ear beside your head. With your elbow pointing straight out to where you want the whip to crack as you move your forearm up to the 12 o'clock position. Keep your motion constant and fluid, don’t jerk the whip.

When you swing the whip up and your wrist gets to about ear level Lock your elbow and keep your wrist fairly stiff at this point for just a brief second, but let the handle of the whip continue to 1 0'clock. The tip of the whip will start to swing down and forward under your elbow. When the tip of the whip starts dropping down behind you, let your arm relax and let your forarm move down ward to throw the whip forward like your using a hammer or casting a fishing line or throwing a dart. It is important that you let the whip flow straight out behind you before you let your arm relax. At this point as your casting the whip forward, You can give a slight flex to your wrist as its coming down, This will help form the hair pin type loop to create the crack.

Follow through to where you have aimed, keep your arm straight, and and don’t pull the whip down at the end so that it crashes into the ground as most people tend do this in the beginning. At this point, Just throw the whip out let it crack and finish with your arm pointing straight out to the target.

Here is a good diagram and description of the circus crack figure.
http://www.wildwestwhips.com/pix/bro01-circus.jpg

Many times new whip crackers won’t raise their arm high enough with their elbow locked or they try to rush the crack and not let the fall lay out far enough behind them before they relax the arm. It takes practice to get the timing just right, especially when your doing it on your own. Keep in mind there are little variations to these cracks, and different people will suggest doing them slightly different.

Regarding poppers, You found out that they work better with a bit more fluff. This is one of the reasons we change them out when the get worn down. Otherwise you just get a very dull muffled crack.

You can buy replacement poppers, but if you’re going to be doing a lot of whip cracking, learn to make your own. Trust me you will be glad you did. You can also try going to your local fabric store and purchase a spool of nylon upholstery thread. I usually use Coats & Clark brand which is widely available in the States, Its very similar to the material that many whip makers use to make there poppers, but just bit thinner but can double it up for the same results. It works well and comes in assorted colors. It is also cheep, a small spool s only a few bucks and i usually get 20 to 25 poppers made from a single spool.

There are several tutorials on making poppers on the web so you shouldn't have too much trouble figuring out how to make them by searching the forums here. Here is the way I do it, it makes a very professional style popper that produces a good sharp crack. http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea ... ID=5787754
I make a lot of these things and they work great. http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3737/poppers3sg5.jpg

Nylon Mason twin works well too and is often recommended but I find it a bit heavy. Polypropylene Baling twine is a cheaper alternative too that works very well, but if you do a lot of cracking like I do you'll find that the bailing twine poppers will wear down much faster and require changing more often. Thought they work better for couple handed whip cracking, as they are less likely to tangle.

Good luck and keep practicing.

Dan

[Mulceber]

Thanks for the advice on how to hold the whip. I'd been alternating between holding it that way and Ford's way for some time. Now I know what to stick with.

I almost think this thread ought to be stickied or incorporated into another thread to be stickied since we've got a lot of great information on how to go about cracking a whip. As soon as I've got a new cracker I'll implement the great advice I've gotten here. :junior: -M

[louiefoxx]

You might also want to try waiting until the whip gets to 4:30ish behind you before the move it forward. That should give you an almost automatic loop in the whip.

xoxo

Louie
http://www.bullwhips.org

[JMObi]

Here's my 2 cents: I worked as a jackaroo in my late teens for a total of a year, on two separate cattle stations in Australia's remote north. This was in '84 and '85. The whole time was spent on horseback. Cracking whips was part of the job. We all had whips and sometimes cracked them after work, for fun, just before the cook called us in for dinner. We would set up tests for ourselves and see who could do things best.

The reason I write this is not to brag but to point out that I have a little bit of street cred when it comes to using a whip.

This circus crack was called a full overhand crack. There were all sorts of other things like horse tailer's crack, Queensland flash, etc. The main working crack when mustering is just this full overarm crack. The horses get totally used to it and couldn't care less about the noise. The other one used a lot was an overarm throw: eg just a swish forward in the air with the whip (no preliminary wind up). Another biggie used was the overhead crack for a loud preliminary noise to get the attention of the cow, bull, horse, weaners, whatever. And a circular forward stabbing throw like a simple forward throw repeated, with the follow-throughs going around in a circle. Or another variation was the full overarm throw (circus crack), but with a preliminary underhand crack on the way up to the backward throw. In other words a simple form of volley.

The really experienced, old hands tended to emphasise a less-is-more approach. There wasn't too much flash whip cracking once the galloping started. Just full overarm cracks.

Bullwhip Borton's lesson in how to do the circus crack is spot on.

I'd like to put in a word for HF's whip work. I personally think he's a great whip cracker from what I've seen in the movies and documentaries. Remember he is using a short handle whip. His grip on the handle is fine. There are various techniques that work very well. That's what works well for him. Enjoy your cracking!

[WhipDude]

At first there Hollywood, I thought you were disagreeing with me. I was thinking "Just what I need."

I was looking for that photo Dan! I was going to give Mulceber a link to the photo to show the proper way.

Glad to know that you are getting lots of answers here Mulceber.

[Dalexs]

One thing I've noticed people do when they I'm teaching the circus crack, is that they tend to hestitate after they get done bringing the whip backward, so it looses some of its momentum.
I think keeping the whip in motion is really important .

Dalexs

[WhipDude]

That never really occurred me Dalexs but now that I think about it, when I show people it as well, they do tend to hesitate. Possibly from the fear of the whip? People seem to be scared to keep it in constant movement due to the fear of it hitting them.

[JMObi]

Balancing the energy of the up and back throw with the forward one is important too I think. Hope someone above has not already said this.

Sometimes the back throw doesn't have enough energy in it with learners. With a short handle bullwhip at least I put in a fair bit of speed and energy in the back throw. Others might not. Then that up and back energy is balanced with the forward throw.

[Indakin]

played with this crack today some. Accidently did a side crack and WOW.... never new how loud those were, and pretty easy to do.

[Mulceber]

You mean the one where you twirl it over your head before pulling it to the side for the crack? Yeah, that's one's pretty easy...and fun :junior: -M

[Indakin]

yea ive seen it done jsut never tried to crack it that way. But wow its part of my arsenal now.

[Vegeta]

Sweet!! Guess who makes their own crackers now?? ME!!

[IndianaChris711]

One thing I've noticed people do when they I'm teaching the circus crack, is that they tend to hestitate after they get done bringing the whip backward, so it looses some of its momentum.
I think keeping the whip in motion is really important .

Dalexs

Yup, that would be me. So far in two practices I hestitate when I first practice. I think it is just cause I am just learning, and seeing the popper come fairly close to the face isn't very friendly. Also thanks for this advice on this thread, this is the first crack I am learning and after practice today toward the end I think I got it. I was finishing a lot not at 3 but more like 4 and letting the whip crack either just above the ground or into the ground. I finally got myself with my wested jacket on to finish at 3 a few times and the crack was much cleaner and louder too. I was not trying to put a whole lot of force into it, just trying to let the whip work itself. I may have put a little force on it, but I did not realize how fast the whip gets to nine o'clock so the action has to be very quick.

The horitzontal crack you are mentioning Mulceber, ya I got that crack on the first try, then did really bad after that, I quit on that one because the whip came around my collar of my jacket. I decided that was enough. I need to watch the video on that one again. Its wierd if I concentrate on an object and not the whip I do fine. Thanks to this thread I think I am doing better on my circus crack.

IndianaChris

[JMObi]

Working stockmen in Australia's northern cattle stations (known as ringers up that way) don't always hold the whip by the turkshead knob on the end of the handle. I'd say mostly not, from the horsemen/women and whip crackers I've seen.

They tend to hold the handle at the base, fingers grasped around the cylinder of the handle, with the butt knot close up against their hand. In this position you get maximum leverage from the handle with maximum security. If you habitually use the whip by holding onto the TH knot, in the palm of your hand, as in a ball and socket joint, the risk of dropping the whip is greatly increased. The cattle are often semi-wild, and let me tell you if you drop anything on a muster, during a moment when the pressure is on, you'll never find it again.

Holding the whip by the butt knot is probably a good idea in competition whip cracking, where conditions are more controllable - but many working Aussie whip crackers don't do it as far as I know from my experience. Just pointing out that you don't have to hold the handle by the TH. It's also legitimate to hold it the way I describe above (this is the way HF holds it too).

[Kiscien]

Like i sad i give the film. Sorry for low quality, but you still can see what I mean. When you throw it back, mind the whip is straight, like clock hand. When you throw it just move your wrist, no arm. This give you more technic, and it will be more pleasurable and less tiring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1VGXPpQX2U

[raider 57]

Check Adam's videos too.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YNKPIOelTgA&feature=related

It helped me to just watch Adam's overall fluid movement sometimes,even without focusing on the details. Timing really IS everything.
-raider 57