Carmel Aldens "changing..."

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:40 pm

Hey all,

Was going to place an order for Carmel Alden AF64 boots today - then the owner informed me that the next batch on the way will be WITHOUT eyelets in the lace holes. I asked him why and he had this to say:

We're always making small changes to the details of our shoes as our tastes change and in order to keep the shoe styles up to date.

Now I'm not so sure I want them...

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:53 pm

IndyFrench wrote:Hey all,

Was going to place an order for Carmel Alden AF64 boots today - then the owner informed me that the next batch on the way will be WITHOUT eyelets in the lace holes. I asked him why and he had this to say:

We're always making small changes to the details of our shoes as our tastes change and in order to keep the shoe styles up to date.
Now I'm not so sure I want them...

what is he trying to say.........it's just gonna be raw leather around the laces??? that doesn't sound like a worthy feature considering the price tag.......i'm confused........

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:55 pm

That's what I said! I mean, any respectable rugged hiking shoe or workboot has reinforced lace holes! Well, I've already decided I'm switching over and buying some Redwings in Dark Wood color instead. I wanted a true Indy hiking shoe and was willing to pay, but the compromises to the 405 design beyond the needed sole is detrimental to its function and appeal as an "Indy boot."

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:59 pm

Thanks for posting this. I ordered a pair of those, and they are on backorder until June/July. If that's the case, I'm cancelling my order.
'Blues

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:03 pm

Hey says there are metal reinforcements "UNDER" the leather on all Alden shoes including these.

I responded with essentially, "Well, there's no need to remove the exterior eyelets then, because removing them only detracts from the Indy look, which is the point of this boot anyway."

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:13 pm

We don't sell AF64 as a hiking boot, and though AF64 is based on the Indy Boot, it was never our intention to make it as close to the Indy Boot as possible. Otherwise we wouldn't have made it with the lug sole and oiled leather.

We will cancel your request.

The owner's response when I cancelled my boot request. Doesn't look like this is where IndyGear afficionados need to be spending their money IMHO. A VERY pricey boot that is awesome in theory, but it is clear there is no interest in keeping the "Indy" 405 design consistent...

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:19 pm

woohoo! now my AF64's are 'collector's items'

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:24 pm

Mike, any reason why you can't get a standard pair of 405's and have vibram lug soles installed yourself? It's been done before, and quite successfully.

Regards! Michaelson

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:37 pm

Michaelson wrote:Mike, any reason why you can't get a standard pair of 405's and have vibram lug soles installed yourself? It's been done before, and quite successfully.

Regards! Michaelson

That's what I did...

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:38 pm

I know.

Regards! Michaelson

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:48 pm

I just emailed Adam at Alden of Carmel, asking if my boots are going to have the speed lacers or not. I pre-ordered them assuming they were going to be like the picture. I'll keep you posted.
Mike

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:52 pm

blues,

the speed lace claws should be still intact....i believe that they are only modifying the lace holes. instead of a metal painted ring around each penetration of the lacing, you'll just see raw leather......looks kind of back-woodsish to me and not very befitting of the 405 glory.

some people may prefer the non-sa look....so to each their own

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:54 pm

Indiana G wrote:blues,

the speed lace claws should be still intact....i believe that they are only modifying the lace holes. instead of a metal painted ring around each penetration of the lacing, you'll just see raw leather......looks kind of back-woodsish to me and not very befitting of the 405 glory.

some people may prefer the non-sa look....so to each their own

OOOooooooohhh. Thanks for clearing that up, G. Still, they jacked up the price, and they're taking someting away. Lame. Still may cancel.
'Blues

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:23 pm

Would Alden install the lug soles for me? Or would I have to buy them separately and have a shoe cobbler do it?

1 - Where do you get vibram lug soles?
2 - The real draw of these Aldens were the near-proper Raiders color. The current Aldens are like the ones I have - near brick-red "brown"

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:11 pm

Can't help you on the color, but every cobbler I've dealt with HAVE the heels and soles in stock, so you just tell them what you want, and they install them.

Regards! Michaelson

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:15 pm

OK, got a reply from Adam, at Alden of Carmel:

"Hi Mike.

Thank you for your e-mail.

The new version of our AF64 will not have the round metal eyelets. (the 5 lower eyelets out of the 9 total)

It will still have the 4 speed hooks. The top 4 eyelets out of 9 total.

The round metal eyelets will be replaced by "invisible" or "blind" eyelets, which are just plain lace holes. (these are reinforced under the leather layer)

So to re-cap. We are changing the lower 5 eyelets from: round metal eyelets (called "agatine" eyelets) to: "invisible" or "blind" eyelets, which are just plain lace holes like an ordinary shoe.

There were two other misunderstandings that came up in our correspondence with Mr. French.

First, we do not sell AF64 as a hiking boot. It has never said anything like that on our web site.

Second, though AF64 is based on the Indy Boot, it was never our intention to make the boot as close to the Indy Boot as possible.

If we wanted to do that, we would use the same sole as the original Indy Boot, and, we would not use this heavily oiled leather.

AF64 is based on the Indy Boot pattern, but is essentially a different shoe, because of the sole and the leather used.

If you are posting to a web site or are in e-mail correspondence with Indy Boot fans, perhaps you can pass on this information in order to help avoid any confusion or disappointment.

If you have any questions, please e-mail.

Sincerely, Adam, Alden of Carmel"

That about sums it up. I can deal with the re-enforced eye holes, just wanted to make sure they would have the hooks.
'Blues

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:16 pm

Michaelson wrote:Can't help you on the color, but every cobbler I've dealt with HAVE the heels and soles in stock, so you just tell them what you want, and they install them.

Regards! Michaelson

Exactly. I just took my old pair of Aldens to a reputable cobbler, and he showed me an assortment of Vibram soles. $30 later, I had a pair of very usable Aldens.
'Blues

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:19 pm

All that aside, I still don't see the point of omitting the eyelets...

When did eyelets go out of style on a work boot???

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:35 pm

sorry,
I can't hold back...
WTF?!! :evil:

I was actually going to SELL my current pair to get these.
Now I'm not so sure...

I know some of the guys over on the SuFu forum own pairs like these. I'll post this over there and see what their feelings on the "no eyelets" are.

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:58 pm

Their rhetoric to IndyBlues isn't conforming to their rhetoric on their own website:

From the response to IndyBlues:

First, we do not sell AF64 as a hiking boot. It has never said anything like that on our web site.

Second, though AF64 is based on the Indy Boot, it was never our intention to make the boot as close to the Indy Boot as possible.

If we wanted to do that, we would use the same sole as the original Indy Boot, and, we would not use this heavily oiled leather.

AF64 is based on the Indy Boot pattern, but is essentially a different shoe, because of the sole and the leather used.

From THEIR OWN WEBSITE:

The most all-weather shoe we offer is this durable and rugged high lace boot, featuring the same heavy duty rubber lug sole used for police boots. Also featuring heavily oiled, low maintenance leather uppers. Definitely not a dress shoe! This is the boot that Indiana Jones wishes he had !

Not only do they tout this boot as "the most all-weather...durable and rugged" and say it's "definitely not a dress shoe!" they even mention the Indiana Jones connection as a selling point. But then the guy turns around and backpedals. Oh, no intention of selling it as an Indiana Jones boot or as a hiking boot either.

OK, so just what the heck IS this boot?!

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:00 pm

Its not THAT bad, but its still really annoying....

Who knows what it is french.....

one thing is for sure...its expensive....

Sounds like they are using it as an exterior selling point, but hes not trying to gain a sale JUST on that factor, because alden essentially makes dress boots. The Indy boot, while rugged, at its heart IS a dress boot.

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:05 pm

I just don't see why they need to reinvent the wheel here. I'm off to buy Redwings now.

IndyFrench out.

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:06 pm

Ditto,

I've been eying a pair for a really long time.

I guess I should just pull the trigger.

these look pretty freggin sweet if you ask me.

http://www.zappos.com/n/p/dp/28451819/c/45106.html

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:19 pm

I'm all about these RedWings here...

http://www.jcrew.com/catalog/product.jh ... =cat250095

Pretty dang close if you ask me...and in "Dark Wood" color - Pure Raiders!

Mark Brody · Post by **Mark Brody** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:24 pm

They do look nice. The only thing that's bugged me about shoes like that is the ridge created by the moc toe seam. The Aldens have a nice smooth seam on the toe, and it doesn't create a bump. That's one of the things that I think makes a boot very "Indy" and it's not easy to find (except on Aldens and Rockports).

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:38 pm

What isn't easy to find on Aldens though are ones that don't force you to take out a second mortgage to own them...and these AF64 Carmel numbers are even more expensive..."and now with less Indy styling! Indiana Jones would be jealous to own these!"

Sheesh...

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:42 pm

Pre trailer release these cost 345....

NO JOKE

post trailer release they cost 375....

and when me and Blues were checking them out last month...

they rose to 405....

Thats a 60$ price increase in less than a year.
Now modifications are being made....super bull carp.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:47 pm

so i did pay $345 then??? can't remember exactly but thanks for reminding me.....now i have some ammo if my wife goes off on my "$400 boots"

.......THEY'RE ONLY $345!!!!

- somehow, i don't think the plymouth will save me from her......i'll just duck behind michaelson. she's usually very nice in front of new people

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:27 pm

Sounds like they are using it as an exterior selling point, but hes not trying to gain a sale JUST on that factor, because alden essentially makes dress boots. The Indy boot, while rugged, at its heart IS a dress boot.

I wish I could agree with you on this, but from everything they're touting on their own website...

Definitely not a dress shoe!

My point is, regardless of whether the Alden 405 is a dress boot, we've all said Indy would really need and wear a work/hiking boot. So, Alden of Carmel is putting themselves out there and offering....what? It's a dress boot that's "definitely" not a dress boot, yet it's a "rugged" shoe "based on the Indy Boot" but "never [with the] intention to make the boot as close to Indy as possible" nor to make the boot one worthy of work/hiking wear because "we do not sell AF64 as a hiking boot."

So, what exactly IS this boot good for? It's not a dress boot, but it isn't a proper work boot or hiking boot. Hmm.... for a now-inflated $405 smacks and even less Indy-styling, where's the draw here? Yet they never aimed it as an Indiana Jones boot, despite invoking his very name in their copy to pundit these shoes.

Sounds like talking out of both sides of the mouth. Sorry to belabor the point. This just irritates me for some reason. I'll be quiet now, I swear...

schmidty612 · Post by **schmidty612** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:38 pm

Hey All,

You could get the regular current 405's from me for $278 including shipping, and spend 40 bucks to have them dyed dark brown (if SA is your thing) and have lug soles slapped on 'em by a decent cobbler. You are STILL paying less than you would from Alden of Carmel. Just a thought...

Schmidty

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:58 pm

This is pure B.S. Just be glad that Alden did not implement these 'improvements' before Indy 4 filmed, or the eyelet-less 405's would be screen-accurate. *cringe*

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:48 pm

Hey whip,

Just to clarify - the eyeletless Aldens are some custom ones done by Alden of Carmel - they were originally rugged, heavily oiled and dark brown 405 clones with heavy lug soles - but now they're tweaking the style and inexplicable removing the eyelets.

The standard 405s everywhere else continue to have eyelets. The appeal of the Carmels was a Raiders-colored Alden boot with true adventurer soles, but now the boot is simply a weird-looking boot with a very high pricetag.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:53 pm

Ah, I stand corrected, sir.

)

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:14 am

Indiana G wrote: - somehow, i don't think the plymouth will save me from her......i'll just duck behind michaelson. she's usually very nice in front of new people

Don't get ME involved there, G!!!

Enraged women usually shoot first, then ask questions later, so hiding behind me won't save you!!! OR me!!!

Regards! Michaelson

IndigoJuliet · Post by **IndigoJuliet** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:30 am

On soldarity with other members, I have cancelled my tenative order for these shoes, as I stated to the ever graceous Adam, "I feel the lack of eyelets detracts from the look of the shoe, and takes away some of the dress shoe style that I was looking for in a shoe that I beleived was both suitable for work and leasure/travel."

He was also asked if they could fit the eyelets as an extra, the response was nNo.

As much as I like them I think they do not look at all dressy without the eyelests. These were going to be bought for Work and travel wear. Oh well the cheap option looks like it is going to win out..

rrhanselka · Post by **rrhanselka** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:32 pm

I cancelled my order for the AF-64 Indy Boot also. Instead I ordered another pair of 405's from schmidty612 which I will have dyed dark brown and have lug soles installed.
BTW, how did they turn out? Any photos would be appreciated.

Many Thanks
Randoman

ANZAC_1915 · Post by **ANZAC_1915** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:18 am

I notice the references to "the boot that Indiana Jones wished he'd had" are gone from their web site...

http://www.alden-of-carmel.com/index.cf ... ot_174.htm

Indybantha Jones · Post by **Indybantha Jones** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:21 pm

Wow! I like the soles on them. I wonder how long they would last compared to the regular 405's

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:11 pm

as for mine, probably another month.......if schmidty manages to get them changed out for the standard sole

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:20 pm

Just an update. If anyone is interested in the Rugged Alden boots, Adam at Alden of Carmel just got a batch in, and the pair I ordered do indeed have the eyelets. So, if your interested, the chow bell is 'a ringin'.
'Blues