YA, It's Indy gear. Like everything else. The difference between a messenger bag and a MK VII, or a DP and a AB, aldens and walmart boots.
Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with close enough gear, depending on your comfort zone when it comes to Indy gear. Some people cant afford David Morgan whips, AB hats, and Wested jackets. But if you can and you want the best of the best I'm thankful to have suppliers and people who work hard to bring us top quality SA gear.
Well, I think the main differences are as follows:
Indy's pants are made from cavlary wool, something I believe that is not used so much today in men's trousers and I believe the general cut of mens trousers today are different. The belt loops are also different to modern trousers.
Also, I believe that the type of material used also makes a great difference to how the trousers drape.
I know - brownish/gray Khaki color - single pleats in the front - flap pockets in the back - button fly.... so?
The problem is getting all those things into one pair of pants - it's like getting the stars to allign. That's what makes it the elusive white whale for so many of us...
The must haves for me are the back flap pockets and the pleats (oh yeah - and no cuffs.) This makes the LLBean Chinos pretty darn close to perfect for me, and the options of multiple colors keeps you from looking like you're wearing the same pants every day. If you get the Bean microfiber pants they even have the right color.
Can you get the Indy look with Walmart khakis? Pretty much - at least to the untrained eye. But for many of us the devil is in the details...
Another thing to consider is that Indy would not have gone to a K/Wal/Box-mart to purchase any of his clothing. He would have gone to a tailor that would make his clothing bespoke, or at the very least altered off the rack clothing. A good tailor can make anything look good on you.
This is why I have stopped buying off the rack and actually go to a bespoke tailor now. It costs a little more, but the results are so worth it.
The most important feature of the pants is of course the fabric.
It's hard to find and expensive. When you handle the pants you will now it is all worth it.
Also, the pocket flap, you won't find it right in any of today's pants.
As some of you know, I used to be offering the Indy pants, also known as, Paris pants but due to some technical reasons had to stop.
Lately, effort is made to re-offer the pants, so I went through a lot of research and finally got it all right.
There will be a Paris pants update shortly where I will share with you all the info.
Some people are just as happy with less. If thats you, then theres nothing wrong with that. So be it. I would not put this costume together without the propper pants, but thats just me.
Hunter Jones wrote:Another thing to consider is that Indy would not have gone to a K/Wal/Box-mart to purchase any of his clothing. He would have gone to a tailor that would make his clothing bespoke, or at the very least altered off the rack clothing. A good tailor can make anything look good on you.
This is why I have stopped buying off the rack and actually go to a bespoke tailor now. It costs a little more, but the results are so worth it.
I'm with you on the tailor. I am quite spoiled now at having my clothes fit me perfectly after tailoring. Of course I still buy clothes at department stores and the like, but I most everything I wear now is custom in some form or another.
They even make fun of me at work because the first place a new set of uniforms go is the tailor. (They NEVER get those things right at the supplier!).
Indy was middle class. He spent money traveling all around the world. Why wouldn't he have shopped at wal-mart? Indy can't afford to spend that much money on clothes.
He might have been middle class, but I think he made a pretty good fortune after finding the Ark (there's a small line in there toward the end that hints towards this). Also, Indy may not be middle class, since he is a "man's man," he doens't like alot of "freaux freaux" and really dressy styles, so we'll never know if maybe he was an upper class man (he could've kept a low profile )...until KOTCS maybe.
So I can see him going to a tailor and buying good brand clothes. Besides, cheap clothes may not survive the adventures he goes on.
But back to the main topic, for many of us (myself included) DETAILS MAKE THE DIFFERENCE. That's why we're so picky about the pants, and everything else. But that's just me.
Actually, it's implied throughtout Raiders that he makes quite a bit of money on the side from the museum for his artifacts. At least that's how I always saw it.
He is a Professor, so I'm assuming he would have no problem getting some nice stuff now and then. Just because he's rugged in the field, doesn't mean he isn't a classy fellow.
IndyParise wrote:Actually, it's implied throughtout Raiders that he makes quite a bit of money on the side from the museum for his artifacts. At least that's how I always saw it.
I really get that feeling from the beginning of Last Crusade. When he's discussing his reclaim of the Cross of Cortez with Marcus.. Matter of fact, the money he made from his work was mentioned in both Raiders and LC. TOD, the deal was for the diamond.. and then he was tempted by "fortune and glory".
But I could see him wearing quality workmanship clothing. AND quality costs! So, yes, he wore good clothing... in my opinion.
Mr. Z wrote:I just got the Wested pants, and they seem to be awfully good. Any thoughts on these?
I'm bumping this, to see what people's thoughts are.
I think most people love Wested's pants, though some have concerns about the cut of the pattern, and the shape of the pocket flap may not be 100% accurate. The fabric is spot on and no one else I know of currently offers the pants in the correct fabric for as low of a price as Wested.
As for Indy's fashion sense, I believe the intent was to portray Indy's "adventure" outfit as being made up from military surplus clothing, not something he went out and had custom tailored for perfect fit and dashing style. Granted, historically speaking all of his "surplus" comes from the future but I think the general ideas was these were items of clothing that were rugged and functional and could be obtained in quantity, which explains his closet full of matching outfits in Raiders.
WinstonWolf359 wrote:
As for Indy's fashion sense, I believe the intent was to portray Indy's "adventure" outfit as being made up from military surplus clothing, not something he went out and had custom tailored for perfect fit and dashing style. Granted, historically speaking all of his "surplus" comes from the future but I think the general ideas was these were items of clothing that were rugged and functional and could be obtained in quantity, which explains his closet full of matching outfits in Raiders.
There has been such a huge response I've just been observing and staying quiet.
Now - I'll speak -
I agree with the above comment - Indy didn't run around in "nice" pants - sure as Professor Jones YES - but on his adventures he's going exploring and kicking Nazi butt - he's not gonna want $100 tailored pants out on the Job - He's treating his pants like @#$%!
So I think Indy would just buy what was most rugged - he's not James Bond after all - 90% of the time he looks like ####.
It's not like he takes fantastic care of that jacket or shirt - right?
So Maybe if Indy had a local K-Mart - he'd be thinking what I'm thinkin' savvy?
I don't know. Maybe he could. Just makes Indy seem less rugged and cool to be worrying that much about his clothes being fashionable.
Maybe it's just my sensibilities but shopping at walmart by choice is not what I'd call cool. Yes, I'm one of those "Walton was the anti-christ" people.
I think Indy probably would have shopped at a tailer for most of his school-wear (the suits that we see him wearing in Raiders and LC) whereas most of his gear (shirt, pants, bag, belts, jacket) would be military surplus with a couple of high-end clothing items (hat, boots) thrown in. :junior: -M
Well I don't think shopping at wal mart is particularly cool. I just think that spending so much time and money on clothes you're gonna beat up seems a bit too feminine to me. And yet here I am... at this site.
But I agree that he would probably have gone to the tailor for his suits and stuff like that. His gear should be cheaper and easier to find, though. The fact that it is just incredibly awesome looking and stylish is because it is a movie. I'm glad he looks cool. That's how we like our movie heroes.
Well I don't think shopping at wal mart is particularly cool. I just think that spending so much time and money on clothes you're gonna beat up seems a bit too feminine to me. And yet here I am... at this site.
[french accent]You and I are very much alike. Indygear is our religion. Yet we have both fallen from the purer faith.
In all seriousness though, you've got a point that it seems kind-of stupid to spend tons of money on clothing you're going to just abuse - part of the reason I think most of his clothing would be military surplus - better than five-and-dime store quality, but much cheaper than high-end tailored clothing. :junior: -M
But yeah I think we pretty much agree. His clothes are not @#$%. They are cool. Even when I buy cheap clothing I'm going to abuse, I go for something I'm comfortable in that looks at least kind of cool.
Your original question could substitute any other piece of Indy gear.
For example: What's so #### special about that hat!
IS THERE SOMETHING I"M MISSING?
I know-brown felt-fedora...so?
We could play this game all day.
If you are happy with close enoughs or just plain old pants you feel seem like something Indy would wear, then I say great. I just don't understand why there would be any more mystery to the pants than to any othe piece of gear. Let's face it, short of the gloves, (and possibly socks/underwear) nothing of Indy's can really be found at your local ____-Mart. (insert preference).
Isn't it like the difference between a Chevy and a Honda (or something along those lines)? They both get you where you need to go; it's just how you want to travel, and how reliable and stylish you will want to be as you are taken on your journey. It's not the years, it's the mileage, so the higher quality item you have, the further your items will take you.
Indy definitely considers his look. Think of how well put together his Club Obi Wan outfit is - more stylish than many Bond equivalents. And even his "work clothes" look good. That's why we all like them so much. He's not afraid to rough up his clothes when it counts, but that doesn't mean he hasn't considered how to put together a good outfit.
Satipo wrote:Indy definitely considers his look. Think of how well put together his Club Obi Wan outfit is - more stylish than many Bond equivalents. And even his "work clothes" look good. That's why we all like them so much. He's not afraid to rough up his clothes when it counts, but that doesn't mean he hasn't considered how to put together a good outfit.
Satipo wrote:Indy definitely considers his look. Think of how well put together his Club Obi Wan outfit is - more stylish than many Bond equivalents. And even his "work clothes" look good. That's why we all like them so much. He's not afraid to rough up his clothes when it counts, but that doesn't mean he hasn't considered how to put together a good outfit.
Well said.
Agreed. Also I believe that people generally took more pride in their appearance then, so it would make perfect sense that Indy would consider his look when purchasing clothing.
Satipo wrote:Indy definitely considers his look. Think of how well put together his Club Obi Wan outfit is - more stylish than many Bond equivalents. And even his "work clothes" look good. That's why we all like them so much. He's not afraid to rough up his clothes when it counts, but that doesn't mean he hasn't considered how to put together a good outfit.
Good point! Beat me to it. I think Indy dresses very well (and expensively) most of the time. The movies concentrate mainly on his time 'in the field' where he's obviously put together a hardy bunch of gear over the years. But most of the time I bet he wears good shoes, hats, suits, dinner jackets etc.
In my opinion, Khaki is close but yet far in color and drape. The desired color is the color found on "officer pinks". The drape in a wool twill weave is far from a khaki cotton. And there are the blasted pockets. Button down and scalloped. Officer pinks would be the solution from those companies that sell retro, used or exact replicas. But Indy wore his pinks with pleats.
I think some of the folks here may be missing the point about where the fictional 1930's Indy would have gotten his clothes due to their youth. Way back when I was a young kid just 30+ years ago (I know, a young whipper-snapper by Michaelson et.al. standards) in a small town, your clothing purchasing options were somewhat limited.
You could: go to the local mens clothing store; go to a tailor; go to a large(r) town/city and go to a nice(r) mens clothing store; go to a department store (Sears or Wards and not much else except local chains such as the 3 H's in Maryland, Hecht's, Hutzler's and Hoschild-Kohn's or Pogue's in Ohio to name a few), or of course, the catalog from Sears or Wards.
Now consider 30 years priot to that. Tailor, men's clothier, nice dept. store in the big city, catalog, that's it. Remember, Indy was a college professor in an era when young gentlemen at college (students) as well as, of course, professors, were expected to dress in coat and tie and there were always local stores catering to that need. I suspect he would have gone to whatever local source there was--progressing up through quality/price as his funds/taste allowed/dictated.
The Wested pants are my favorite piece of daily wear gear. I love them because they are made like old style trousers. They look great with my wested or my blue wool blazer with a striped shirt and yellow tie.
JerseyJones wrote:The Wested pants are my favorite piece of daily wear gear. I love them because they are made like old style trousers. They look great with my wested or my blue wool blazer with a striped shirt and yellow tie.
The fabric is tremendous. The price is too.
JJ
Otherwise, you don't have any use for them. Right JJ?
JerseyJones wrote:The Wested pants are my favorite piece of daily wear gear. I love them because they are made like old style trousers. They look great with my wested or my blue wool blazer with a striped shirt and yellow tie.
The fabric is tremendous. The price is too.
JJ
I'd wager they are pretty slick in the court room as well.
Another point to be made here is that back during Indy's time, and even for a good while afterwards (during my life, I 50ish), you didn't have to pay as much for quality-it was the rule rather than the exception. The stuff that we beat the bushes for today was everyday stuff back then. For example, when I was a kid, you could go in any department store and buy a fine quality felt hat. Every man had one, well dressed or not. Things as a general rule were made better back then, with some exceptions. Same with shoes. Aldens would have been just hardware store brogans to Indy- just everyday work shoes. It how most shoes were made. Glues just weren't what they are today, and no one would have dreamed of just gluing a sole on-practicality dictated that it be sewn. Pistols were also cheap. We all hunted when I was a kid-mainly birds. The demand for pistols was just not there. No one had any use for them. Army surplus Jeeps/officers pinks were cheap-different times. So I guess my point is during his day, Indy wouldn't have had to be rich to dress as he did. We are spending a lot of money today because we are buying period reproductions, just as someone who re-enacts the Civil War might. Heck pretty soon, "Indy's time" will be 100 years ago. Money was probably tight for everyone when he would have lived (Depression), but the stuff he wore like the surplus stuff he wore would have been considerd cheap or at most middle class in those days. Heck, all that stuff could have been left over from his military days. Hope I didn't ramble on too long-very interesting thread for me-Tom
All good points, Tom. We often forget that we tend to look at these things retrospectively (i.e. - from our lofty 21st century viewpoint). Getting back to the original topic, I had a pleasant surprise when my first pair of M.B.A trousers arrived in the mail from England, back in 1999. I had them shipped to my grandparents' house, where I used to stay during the summers. My grandma was standing there when I opened the box and pulled out these cavalry twill wool pants with a 5-button fly, top hook closure, and a pull-over tab (to hold the pants up while fastening the other buttons). She looked at them and remarked: "That's how they made them in the old days."
Chalk it up to excellent research on the part of the costume designers, but it really made my day, especially considering how much they cost. When all was said and done, I wound up with four pairs of M.B.A. pants - 2 in the LC style, and 2 in the Raiders color. Someday I would be interested in purchasing a pair of Wested pants, just for comparison. Like you said, these would probably be an everyday item of clothing to Indiana Jones- nothing special or coveted as we hold them to be.
Excellent comments Whip-speaking of period stuff, just went out and was digging around in my ship-I found a pair of Wells-Lamont gloves from the 80's with SA trim covered in dried dirt, but otherwise in good shape. Just got through saddle soaping-they are drying now and will be getting a liberal coating of Pecard's. If I had only known then . . .
New to the pants thing here and since I made the effort to get a Wested jacket and Keppler fedora, I am thinking of the Wested - but is the wool fabric only for fall and winter wear?
(on an older-guy side note, how fast can one get those buttons undone !!!?)
I don't know about the Wested pants, but I can tell you about the Noel Howard/M.B.A. offering. They are rather heavy until you get accustomed to the weight. Warm and comfy in the fall and winter, but not so good in the more temperate seasons. If you wear them out hiking, the coarse wool fabric will chafe your legs raw as you sweat. The infamous button fly (including the crossover flap) becomes easier with time and experience, but it's not a quick process by any means. Wested should offer zippered Indy pants for those lacking the dexterity for the archaic button-and-clasp system, which supposedly is screen-accurate, but nobody will ever know anyway.
)...until KOTCS maybe. 
- this is absurd
