UPDATE - Wested Horsehide or USWings Signature Goat

IndianaSolo · Post by **IndianaSolo** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:36 pm

I've done my research and have narrowed down to 2 jackets.

US Wings Signature Series Goatskin Brown jacket
Wested Raiders Style Jacket in Dark Brown Horsehide non-custom

Price wise after conversion to USD and adding shipping, makes the cost neglible, so it comes down to style and durability.

I want a jacket to last me a lifetime, can wear anywhere everyday, doesn't need to be SA but looks good, feels good and can stand a good beating. Since price is no concern it comes down to durability and time to recieve. Im sure ill get the the US sooner than the Wested, but would the Wested be worth the wait since its HH? If anyone has either/both of these jackets and can provide comments based on what Im looking for in a jacket, it would be most helpful.

Cheers

FLATHEAD · Post by **FLATHEAD** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:20 am

They are both nice jackets, and you can not really go wrong with either
leather choice, as both are hard wearing, tough jackets. But also consider this:

I know you stated that a Wested would be non-custom, but think of the
things that can be custom tailored to fit YOU. You can specify the sleeve
length YOU need, the body length YOU need, the actual chest measurement
that will fit YOU properly, and many other items that will make the jacket
fit YOU for a perfect custom fit.

The Wings jacket is made to fit a wide range of people in each size.
There is NO custom anything!

If you get a Wings jacket, and the sleeves are too long, guess what?
YOU have to pay to have the sleeves altered to the correct length. Not
a huge deal, but its still time and money out of your pocket.

If the body is too long, YOU are out of luck again, and you will either
have to find someone to fix it for you, or just live with it.

And, if YOU remove the tag from the Wings jacket, its yours for life!
They will NOT take back a jacket that has had the tag removed.

Unless you know for a fact that you can fit in an off the shelf jacket,
and you will need no alterations to it, then you might find a Wings jacket
that will fit you.

If you get a Wested, you will be able to customize a jacket to fit your
body, and your body only.

If you get a Wings, you may fall into the same problem alot of people
on this site have had, including myself. I happen to fall right inbetween
a Wings medium and larger size.

The medium is too tight on me, and the large is just a bit too baggy for
me. There is no inbetween size in a Wings jacket that will fit me the
way I like. I went with the large because I can layer clothing under it,
but it still looks too big on me most of the time. I never liked this, but I
live with it.

My Wested Authentic Lamb was custom tailored to fit ME, and you can
see the difference when I wear each jacket.

The Wings looks like an off the shelf, generic jacket. The Wested looks
like a fine tailored peice of clothing.

Flathead

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:56 pm

The Wings will outlast a Wested, period.

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:03 pm

I like both my Wested Lamb and my USWings Goat. However, after almost 6 years, the USWings I've owned is broken in nicely, and barely has started to show any wear. So like my Expo, it will probably outlive me. I've had the Wested since 2005 and have only worn it a couple times. So there's not a proper comparision between the two. BUT that said, if the USWings sizing fits you, you'll be very happy.

FLATHEAD · Post by **FLATHEAD** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:52 pm

The Wings will outlast a Wested, period.

What parts? Not the leather.

But remember, an ill fitting jacket will just stay in the closet, so it will
never be worn versus one that is a custom fit.

Flathead

INDIANA_7 · Post by **INDIANA_7** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:03 pm

Rundquist wrote:The Wings will outlast a Wested, period.

Took the words right out of my mouth!!. Actually, most other jackets will outlast it.

Best regards,
Indiana 7

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:13 pm

FLATHEAD wrote:
The Wings will outlast a Wested, period.
What parts? Not the leather.

But remember, an ill fitting jacket will just stay in the closet, so it will
never be worn versus one that is a custom fit.

Flathead

No not the leather. Nothing wrong with Wested's leather. But leather is not all that goes into a leather jacket. Craftsmanship and stitching play a big part. Each jacket has it’s good points and a Wested has it’s good points, but what I mentioned above isn’t one of them. On the other hand, you’re right. If you can’t get a jacket out of US Wings that fits you (and I’m not saying that you can’t), then they are not a viable choice. Cheers

FLATHEAD · Post by **FLATHEAD** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:13 pm

Took the words right out of my mouth!!. Actually, most other jackets will outlast it.

Really? My first Wings Indy jacket had the worst stitching on it of any
jacket I have ever owned.

The inside lining was starting to come apart when the jacket was just
4 months old, and the mismatched leather all over the jacket was the
worst I have ever seen on a jacket.

And, the snap on one pocket came off the jacket the first week I had it.

I would not call the Wings jacket I had one that would outlast all others.

By comparison, my Wested Indy jacket is now over 4 years old, and
to this day, there is not one popped stitch, not one rip in the lining, nor
have any of the snaps come loose.

I guess everyone has their own opinion, and thats mine.

I still would rather have a jacket that fit me, and that I wore everyday,
then one that did not fit, and I kept it in the closet because it looked like
a sack of potatoes when worn.

Flathead

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:17 pm

FLATHEAD wrote:
Took the words right out of my mouth!!. Actually, most other jackets will outlast it.
Really? My first Wings Indy jacket had the worst stitching on it of any
jacket I have ever owned.

The inside lining was starting to come apart when the jacket was just
4 months old, and the mismatched leather all over the jacket was the
worst I have ever seen on a jacket.

And, the snap on one pocket came off the jacket the first week I had it.

I would not call the Wings jacket I had one that would outlast all others.

By comparison, my Wested Indy jacket is now over 4 years old, and
to this day, there is not one popped stitch, not one rip in the lining, nor
have any of the snaps come loose.

I guess everyone has their own opinion, and thats mine.

I still would rather have a jacket that fit me, and that I wore everyday,
then one that did not fit, and I kept it in the closet because it looked like
a sack of potatoes when worn.

Flathead

Hey, my choice is the Expedition. You get craftsmanship and a jacket that fits. But he asked about US Wings and Wested. I’ve tried multiple jackets from all three. Gibson & Barnes stitching trumps everybody.

FLATHEAD · Post by **FLATHEAD** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:41 pm

Hey, my choice is the Expedition. You get craftsmanship and a jacket that fits. But he asked about US Wings and Wested. I’ve tried multiple jackets from all three. Gibson & Barnes stitching trumps everybody.

I will agree with this!!

For abit more money, you can NOT go wrong with the Gibson and Barnes.

From what I can see, they have a lifetime warranty on their stitching, like
Aero and Eastman, and you can not beat their hides.

I still like the Russet Expedition you had a few years back. Although
not screen accurate in color, that jacket was easily THE best looking
leather jacket I have ever seen, except for maybe the new GoodWear
Clothing A-1 by John Chapman.

Flathead

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:49 pm

FLATHEAD wrote:
Hey, my choice is the Expedition. You get craftsmanship and a jacket that fits. But he asked about US Wings and Wested. I’ve tried multiple jackets from all three. Gibson & Barnes stitching trumps everybody.
I will agree with this!!

For abit more money, you can NOT go wrong with the Gibson and Barnes.

From what I can see, they have a lifetime warranty on their stitching, like
Aero and Eastman, and you can not beat their hides.

I still like the Russet Expedition you had a few years back. Although
not screen accurate in color, that jacket was easily THE best looking
leather jacket I have ever seen, except for maybe the new GoodWear
Clothing A-1 by John Chapman.

Flathead

Yeah he makes a beautiful jacket.

Weston · Post by **Weston** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:03 pm

Flathead, it sounds like your jacket was the equivalent to that one nasty mutant potatoe chip the bag. That's too bad.

Indianasolo, I have 2 Westeds and a US Wings signature series dark brown goat. I'll try to explain what I like about them, and hopefully that will help you.

I have a Wested lamb and pre-distressed cow, so I have no experience with the horse hide, but I can tell you that the styling of the Wested is very sharp, and the craftsmanship top notch. Both of my Westeds have been very durable, and it has taken 8+ years of rough wearing to get them to show that "adventured in" look, so I'm sure that the horsehide version will exceed all expectations of durability.

My Wings jacket is more of a relaxed cut, more room in the arms and shoulders, but more narrow at the waist, so it has a neat appearance zipped and unzipped. The craftsmanship on this jacket is also very good. The lining is a 50/50 cotton poly blend that has been very durable, not even frayed after 4 years of regular wearing. The goatskin is a good insulator, I have worn it comfortably in 80 degree heat, as well as below freezing cold (with a thermal top and longsleeve shirt). I think this is important for a jacket that is going to see some outdoor adventure, where extremes can be encountered in a day, or even an hour. Another thing I like is the pockets. They are the patch style, rather than integrated, which means you have a solid shell of leather around you, rather than an opening into the lining which can let you get soaked in a rain or snowstorm. As for durability, if I ever get involved in something rough enough to ruin this jacket, I'm sure there wont be enough of me left to complain about it!

Weston

IndianaSolo · Post by **IndianaSolo** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:34 pm

A lot of things factor into my order.
FLATHEAD makes a good point and for the little bit extra I'd rather get the custom instead of off the rack.
It's like comparing a Mercedez-benz to a Lexus
Both Great Jackets from what I hear, but I have some saying that the wested stitching isn't as durable as USWings, but the Horsehide is more durable than Goat. The only reason I want Horsehide is because you don't see it around very often. But the wait time and the thought of not having the right size or bad stitching steer me away.
I want quality durability, looks aren't the main priority. If something goes wrong with the Wested, I can't send it back, but it is still a horsehide. If USWings would offer the same style jacket in HH, that would probably end my search right there.
So do I get over the bragging rights of a HH and get the goat, or go for OVERALL best jacket with USWings?

FLATHEAD · Post by **FLATHEAD** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:23 pm

One other thing to consider is how much you are going to wear the
jacket, and in what kinds of weather.

Goatskin is naturally water repellant. Thats the main reason the Navy
chose it for their jackets dating all the way back to WWII. The G-1 is
a good example of that.

Horsehide is not quite as water repellant as goat, but its not bad.

Cowhide and lambskin, forget about it. They will soak up water as
soon as the drops hit them, unless they have been soaked in some kind
of water repellant conditioner.

And even then, they will still soak up water, just not as fast.

Go to the Gibson and Barnes website, and have a look at their section
detailing the different leather types. They have a nice page showing
the different leathers, the grain patterns on each, and what each type
is good for.

My next leather jacket is going to be one made from Horsehide. Its
tough, it breaks in really nice, and it has the happy medium between
water repellancy and weight.

If you want to see how horsehide jackets break in, check out the Vintage
Leather Jacker forum.

There, you can see all kinds of A-2's, Aero Highwaymen jackets, and
everything inbetween.

I can also tell you that the horsehide panels on my Aero Redskin B-3
have started to distress nicely after 3 years of ownership. And, I bet
they would look even better if I could wear the jacket more than just
2 or 3 months out of the year. So don't be afraid of people telling you
that horsehide does not naturally distress. It does. It takes time, but
it does, and quite nicely.

Flathead

INDIANA_7 · Post by **INDIANA_7** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:26 pm

My problem with Wested has basically been their jackets durability. I've owned several over the years and have had the same experiences with them all...liner tearing, side entry pocket stitching separating from the leather, stitching issues in other places as well etc.. I love the look and the fit but would not want to rely on it if I had to survive in it. The durability in my opinion just isn't there. I even have in my possession which is rumored, that my ex brother in-law who worked for ILM in the early 90's, obtained supposedly LC jacket at Chrisitie's auction house in NYC around 1992. This jacket was given to me as a gift a few months later and even after inspecting the alleged LC jacket, I even noticed that the durability and quality were lacking. I was surprised to see this,especially if it was designated to be possibly worn during filming. Just my two cents.

Best regards,
Indiana 7

FLATHEAD · Post by **FLATHEAD** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:39 pm

Flathead, it sounds like your jacket was the equivalent to that one nasty mutant potatoe chip the bag. That's too bad.

It was a sad jacket. But I was not the only one to get a bad one.

There was a while there, about 3 or 4 years ago, when people here even
posted pictures of their Wings jackets, with the linings hanging down past
the bottom of the jackets, and seams coming apart pretty much right out
of the box.

I don't know if these jackets were the ones that were made in china or
not, but they were a sorry bunch.

Their jackets have gotten much better since they started to use the
factory in New Jersey again.

My only beef with them is even though they make their own jackets
again, you can't get them to do even the slightest bit of alteration on a
jacket. Not even something as simple as shortening the sleeves.

I understand the whole, if we make a change you can't send it back
mentality. But not even after you receive your jacket, and you tell them
it fits great except for the sleeve length, and that you will pay them to
shorten the sleeves, they still will not do it for you. Even though it was
they who made the jacket, and you wanted the people who made it to
fix it for you since they know the product. Nope, no go. Won't do it.

So, if you can fit in an off the shelf jacket, where the sleeve length is
good for you, the body fits you good, and the shoulders do not droop,
then your good to go, and any of their jackets that are made in the USA
Signature Series or VIP's are a good choice.

Me, I can't, as my arms are about an inch shorter than most people, and
I fall right between a medium and a large. So I send my money to vendors
who can do a more custom fit for me, like Wested, Aero, Eastman, Gibson
and Barnes, ext, versus just a generic one size fits many jacket maker
that I will have to send to someone else, and spend even more money
to get the sleeves shortened by just 1 inch anyway.

Flathead

FLATHEAD · Post by **FLATHEAD** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:43 pm

My problem with Wested has basically been their jackets durability. I've owned several over the years and have had the same experiences with them all...liner tearing, side entry pocket stitching separating from the leather, stitching issues in other places as well etc.. I love the look and the fit but would not want to rely on it if I had to survive in it. The durability in my opinion just isn't there.

What type of leather were these jackets made out of?

Flathead

INDIANA_7 · Post by **INDIANA_7** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:49 pm

FLATHEAD wrote:
My problem with Wested has basically been their jackets durability. I've owned several over the years and have had the same experiences with them all...liner tearing, side entry pocket stitching separating from the leather, stitching issues in other places as well etc.. I love the look and the fit but would not want to rely on it if I had to survive in it. The durability in my opinion just isn't there.
What type of leather were these jackets made out of?

Flathead

The leathers varied ( Lamb, goat,cowhide) but I am really referring to is stitching. I think if the stitching were better, the jackets would stay together longer. The leather itself, seems to be fine for the most part.

Best regards,
Indiana 7

FLATHEAD · Post by **FLATHEAD** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:59 pm

Why I asked it that people seem to complain more about the stitiching
coming loose in the lambskin jackets more than the other types of leathers.

I wondered if this is because lamb tears easier than the others, and thus
makes it seem like the stitching is bad, when it could just be the thread
ripping the lambskin when it gets stressed.

For what its worth, I have never had leather jackets, or for that matter,
any types of jackets, have their stitiching just let loose for no reason.

It was either because a seam was sewn wrong, or the ends of the threads
were not dressed properly.

If that were the case, then I can trace the problem back to that every
time.

Flathead

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:12 pm

IndianaSolo wrote:A lot of things factor into my order.
... but the Horsehide is more durable than Goat. The only reason I want Horsehide is because you don't see it around very often.

If you want Horsehide, go for it. It's a great hide. But it really isn't more durable than goatskin. In fact original WW2 A-2's made from goatskin are usually universally in better shape today than their horsehide counterparts. Cheers

IndianaSolo · Post by **IndianaSolo** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:17 pm

UPDATE - The Good News

Did a financial Rundown, ended up getting LOTS of Overtime plus my side job, I can now opt for getting an Expedition. I've decided on Goatskin so the HH is out. It comes down to Wings or Expedition Goat. Wings has the extra under the lining but G & B has the stitching, plus is $100 more.
THANKS A BUNCH FOR THE INFO GUYS, now that I've determined the next step, I bet you'll tell me to go with flightsuits. Right? Is the extra padding in the Wings worth the hype or is the G & B the hands down top choice?

Weston · Post by **Weston** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:05 pm

Extra padding? I'm lost. My Wings jacket is just the cotton/poly lining and goatskin shell.

Weston

IndianaSolo · Post by **IndianaSolo** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:12 pm

The batting inside the USWings jacket which I hear provides better insulation

Weston · Post by **Weston** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:17 pm

Sorry, there is no batting in mine, just the lining. I remember reading now that the overseas special offer jacket had batting inside. Mine is one of the US made jackets. I think they are different.

Weston

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:47 pm

If you have narrowed it down to a wings vs. a GB, go with the GB! it is not much more money, and is FAR more screen accurate!

C3

IndianaSolo · Post by **IndianaSolo** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:20 pm

Im so glad Im a part of this crowd

With my adventurer coming in on monday and the keppler still about 4 weeks away (minimum) I'm gonna dish out the extra $150 and make a $460 investment into a G & B Dark Brown Goat Expedition. Since its a jacket I know the investment is worth it. Hopefully if I make the order tomorrow I can get it by next week. Any suggestions on sizing for a 42R?