NEED SOME HELP

DOHERTYJAX · Post by **DOHERTYJAX** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:53 pm

ok, I am newest of the new to all this. I have been practicing some plaiting patterns using some rope. I finally figured out how to braid around an object. Pictured is a steel rod which I practiced an 8 plait (over 2 under 2). I have no idea how I would even start a whip though. How do you start the ropes when making the handle. Just to practice, I taped them down. Also, if I was to make a six foot, or an 8 foot whip, how long should the rope/ leather be before I start braiding. I plan on buying some books, but I thought I would post a message for the time being.

And yes, I can see in the picture, where I messed up the pattern.

Thanks

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85 ... ATTERN.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85 ... TTERN2.jpg

rjallen70 · Post by **rjallen70** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:06 pm

The blind leading the blind here, but on my first whip I tacked it to the end of the handle with small tacks and duck brand duct tape.

Cracker · Post by **Cracker** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:22 pm

Well, I guess maybe I've got one eye partly open instead of totally blind so I'll chime in, and the real whip makers on this forum can correct me

I start tying off the strands above the handle rod. That way, once you reach the handle, the plaiting is taking shape correctly. The first few plaits never look good on my whips, but because I cut them off, it's no big deal. As far as your plaiting goes, I would work on a whip makers plait first and get that down pat, then work on handle plaits. A whip makers 8 plait is bringing one strand around the handle or thong and then going U2 O2. Bring the high strand on the other side around and U2 O2 and just keep repeating one side to the other. It looks like your bringing two strands around at a time.
Jim

[edit] As far as the length. Multiply 2 times the length you want for nylon cord. I use 1.75 for leather because of the stretch, but Bernie says to use 2 times for it also. It's much better to have to much than too little.

DOHERTYJAX · Post by **DOHERTYJAX** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:27 pm

Cracker, thanks........I guess I truly have no clue what I am doing. I cant seem to get it right using only one strand. I am going to have to wait to get a book. I have not found any good sites on basic plaiting pattrns. They are all too confusing right now.

Cracker · Post by **Cracker** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:49 pm

If you want to learn, get Ron Edwards book on whip making. It won't help much on making a bull whip, but it will help you a lot on plaiting.

louiefoxx · Post by **louiefoxx** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:57 am

I don't know if this helps or not, but here's a picture from my website with the insides of a bullwhip cut out, but not braided.

The overlay is similar to the bellies in how the strands are attached.

You can see more pics of in-progress whips by digging around my site http://www.bullwhips.org

If you are serious about making a whip get the Whip Book Trifecta:
How To Make Whips 2nd edition by Morgan, the section on the 450 series is worth it's weight in gold!
Braiding Fine Leather by Morgan, Learning to prepare lace and select hides is very important!
How to Make Whips by Edwards, His bullwhip pattern works (my first one was made from this book) and will give you a place to grow from.

xoxo

Louie

DOHERTYJAX · Post by **DOHERTYJAX** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:58 am

Thanks. I'm probably going to order a book or two today

stealthboy · Post by **stealthboy** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:42 pm

louiefoxx wrote:I don't know if this helps or not, but here's a picture from my website with the insides of a bullwhip cut out, but not braided.

That is very helpful... I'm just trying to get started as well. The one things I can't figure out is how to go from the hide into really long pieces for the bellies and overlays. I have made up a quick diagram of my *theory*, but can you tell me how close this is to how you cut out those pieces?

Thanks in advance for your helpful tips!

louiefoxx · Post by **louiefoxx** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:13 pm

Cutting the hide that way would work...but try cutting one on the left side, then one on the right, then one on the left (or viseversa). That will give you a more managable shape to the kangaroo.

With the "map" you have now you will end up with a lot of sharp angles in the hide that you will have to cut off when you are cutting your overlay and that will create unecessary waste.

Also you have three bellies in your picture...most indy style have two. Is there a reason for that (just curious).

Now here's my disclaimer, I'm still learning to make whips and that's the way I was taught to cut them...but I'm starting to cut them differently based on a suggestion by another whipmaker. I haven't cut enough the new way to have an opinion about it.

xoxo

Louie

P.S. You might find many of my older posts on my blog (http://www.bullwhips.org) helpful. The entries from when I was starting out have a lot about my failures and wacky handle types and ways to attach the thong to them.

Cracker · Post by **Cracker** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:40 pm

stealthboy, I would recommend you read Louie's blog also. I've read it beginning to end at least three times, and check back every few days for new posts. I has helped a lot. He answers questions without even knowing it

stealthboy · Post by **stealthboy** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:16 am

I have been looking over Louie's blog, and it's a great resource. It's so amazing to see how he progressed over the months! I only hope I can start soon... The only thing holding me back is not knowing how to cut the hide, and I certainly don't want to waste $100 on something that I screw up by cutting incorrectly.

Is there a video somewhere of someone starting with a whole hide and cutting the pieces? That would be a spectacular resource! Louie, maybe that's something you could do when you start your next whip!

louiefoxx · Post by **louiefoxx** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:06 am

In my opinion the best way to start is to jump in and start cutting. Even if you waste a hide, it'll be worth it and you will learn a lot. Nothing teaches me a lesson like wasting a hide. Even if you cut it funny you should still be able to make a whip from it. Plus your first whip probably won't be a great whip.

I don't know if I'd make a video of me cutting a whole hide. It'd be waaay to long and very boring. Me cutting the hide and listening to crappy 80's hair metal CD's in the background...And cutting is pretty much a skill you need to learn over time and I don't know how much the visual will help (morgans pics in Braiding Fine Leather worked for me).

Next time I cut a hide I'll try to remember to put the the belly and overlay set's in place around the hide and take a picture so you can see where they came from.

xoxo

Louie
http://www.bullwhips.org

stealthboy · Post by **stealthboy** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:56 am

louiefoxx wrote:In my opinion the best way to start is to jump in and start cutting. Even if you waste a hide, it'll be worth it and you will learn a lot. Nothing teaches me a lesson like wasting a hide. Even if you cut it funny you should still be able to make a whip from it. Plus your first whip probably won't be a great whip.

I don't know if I'd make a video of me cutting a whole hide. It'd be waaay to long and very boring. Me cutting the hide and listening to crappy 80's hair metal CD's in the background...And cutting is pretty much a skill you need to learn over time and I don't know how much the visual will help (morgans pics in Braiding Fine Leather worked for me).

Next time I cut a hide I'll try to remember to put the the belly and overlay set's in place around the hide and take a picture so you can see where they came from.

xoxo

Louie
http://www.bullwhips.org

Thanks so much for the info... I think you're right that I just need to jump in and get started. There's no better way to learn than by just getting your hands dirty, eh? I think I'll order a hide online (there are no stores local to me as far as I can tell... not much leather work demand in DC I guess - I think there may be a Tandy about 70 miles away).

Thanks again, and I'll definitely post pics as things get started...

louiefoxx · Post by **louiefoxx** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:03 pm

Keep in mind that aside from precut lace most Tandy's don't sell kangaroo. If you call Morgan's shop he sells it. Tell him what you are making and that you are a beginner and he'll pick you out a good hide and the proper size for the lenght of whip you are making.

xoxo

Louie
http://www.bullwhips.org