Stupid Question

rrhanselka · Post by **rrhanselka** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:52 pm

Even though I've got a little age on me and more than a little experience in business, I'm new to the hat business, and I have a question. When It only takes a few minutes to bash a hat, for an expert, why do I have to wait two months, six months, or a year for a hat? It seems, as a businessman, that you would take steps to increase your output if the demand was that high. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not "bashing" anyone, especially these artisans that make our hats, but I'm truly interested. Why, when I want to give someone $200 - $500 for a hat, do I have to wait that long? I apologize to all that I might offend, but it is a little more than frustrating. As a businessman, why don't those in the business step up production to meet demand. Please don't vote me out of here for asking a simple business question.

Many Thanks
Randall

rjallen70 · Post by **rjallen70** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:59 pm

The way I understand, a hat can be bashed in a few seconds...not even minutes.
But to make a hat from scratch takes about a full day.
Not to mention alot of these guys are not full time hatters.
In many cases fans would not wan't a hat made by the employee of the guy who made the hat...they want the real McCoy, so it stays a one man operation, and production is low, and demand is high and so on.
There are plenty of factory produced hats out there with no line at all.
Hopefully AB will have one soon as well.
Ron

Band Director Jones · Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:59 pm

For more information I suggest you look at this thread

Marcus Brody · Post by **Marcus Brody** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:11 pm

Guys like Fedora are a one man show, and it's just a fact that making a hat by hand takes a lot of time. The sewing part of hat making is probably one of the most tedious and time consuming. Then when you have a bunch of people in line and you're spending a day for each hat, obviously it becomes impossible to just step up production to meet demand, because a handmade hat just genuinely takes time. The only way to increase output would obviously be to have other people making the hats as well, but that takes money, and Fedora doesn't make enough profit to pay for workers. Another way would be to have the hats factory made, but then the hats aren't handmade anymore.

IndyFrench · Post by **IndyFrench** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:11 pm

Good things come to those who wait. Amazing things, like Adventurebilts, come to those who are unconditionally patient.

In today's society, the "I want it and I want it yesterday" mentality is what has led to the piles of cheap hats, cheap shoes and cheap quality out there in the clothing world. Couple that with a lack of artisans to choose from and high demand and there you have it.

I've taken a page out of my grandfather's handbook of wisdom. Patience is not just a virtue, it's a valuable skill. I'm just going to sit back and relax. The hat will come when it comes, the del Carpio whip and the Magnoli clothes will also.

If you want it now, and you're more concerned with when rather than how well, buy a Dorfman. Quality takes time. That's why there are fewer Aston Martins on the market versus Hondas.

indy89 · Post by **indy89** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:17 pm

It's about quality. Do I want a factory made hat that will taper with the first touch of rain? You're #### right I don't. I want a hat that is handmade from the finest materials, made with caution and with care.

rrhanselka · Post by **rrhanselka** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:18 pm

BD Jones.....
Thank you for sharing that thread, I had not seen it.
Still, it took 1 hr and 13 minute to make a hat. Doesn't explain the waiting period .

I understand an Adventurebilt Hat taking a while longer, but I don't understand others who simply shape existing hats, taking months to provide a hat.

In my business, if I can't supply my cutomer his goods the next day, it costs him millions

Still not complaining, just interested.

Many Thanks
Randall

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:19 pm

Still, it took 1 hr and 13 minute to make a hat. Doesn't explain the waiting period .

Read the whole thread. It takes longer than 1hr and 13 minutes. :junior: -M

Marcus Brody · Post by **Marcus Brody** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:30 pm

Still, it took 1 hr and 13 minute to make a hat. Doesn't explain the waiting period .

It didn't take him 1 hour and 13 minutes to make it, that was just one segment of making it. In total it took him close to 9 and a half hours to make just that one hat.

I understand an Adventurebilt Hat taking a while longer, but I don't understand others who simply shape existing hats, taking months to provide a hat.

If it's a factory made hat, it shouldn't take that long. Perhaps if you told us who you were talking about, maybe people could give a better explanation.[/quote]

Mark Brody · Post by **Mark Brody** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:06 am

I'm not sure even a factory made hat could be done in 1:13. Enough time is spent simply waiting for the felt to dry on the block to bust that time. I think someone said once that Steve is able to make 2 hats a day. If that's true, it's absolutely incredible. Making one hat is a full day's work already!

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:00 am

On that post he says 12-14 hours per hat, and he's added more steps since then.

rrhanselka · Post by **rrhanselka** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:53 am

I really appreciate your patience with me. As I said in the beginning, I truly appreciate the craft and am only trying to understand. Obviously I can see where, if you can only produce one hat a day, there would be a lengthy lead time, especially with a high demand, i.e., Adventurebilt hats.

This leads me to another question. Are all of the companies we talk about here, one man shows, or do they have several hatters on staff building hats?

Many Thanks
Randoman

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:35 am

We have a mixed bag.

Folks like AB and AB Deluxe, PetersBros, and JPDesign to mention a few are pretty much one man shows.

HatsDirect, for example, is a production seller for the Akubra hat co. That's why their hats can be shipped almost same day as order received.

Keppler and Camptown are production hats, but are then hand bashed by Lee and Ken before shipment, so they have combination production/hand shaped hats forsale.

Regards! Michaelson

Band Director Jones · Post by **Band Director Jones** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:38 am

Most of the custom hat shops (AB, JPD, Peters Bros., etc) are one or two man operations. Usually, there is on guy who actually does the hat, and does some of the detail work (attaching liners, ribbons, boxing and shipping). I know Steve just added a helper and Peters Bros used to have two to three people on staff (but I believe one person does the Indy hats in order to keep consistency), but I'm almost positive JPD is just Jimmy doing it all himself.

As to just taking a hat from the factory an shaping it, there is much more to it than that. Even a hatter that uses hat making equipment is going to take a long time to make a hat due to the amount of equipment needed to make a hat and the time needed for each step. For example, Peters Bros. is an old time hat shop with old time equipment. But, they don't have much of it. If I recall they have one or two (at the most) of each piece of equipment. Plus, when it comes to the hat blocks, they may only have one in the style and size needed. I am pretty sure they only have one or two blocks for the Indy hats in each size.

Now as a business man, I'm sure you can understand that if these small shops were to add more equipment and staff the cost of your hat would need to go up. Plus, when you start cranking out hats that were made by someone other than the master craftsman in charge, it tends to make the hat a little less special. If I want a hat made by the guy who made the hat for KotCS then I want it made by him, not "Hat Maker number 12". It's like those Thomas Kinkade paintings. People pay hundreds, even thousands of dollars for one of "his" paintings and he didn't even paint the thing. Sure, he painted the original, but some of the stuff hanging in peoples home are prints that have been "enhanced" with painted touch-ups by some lackey in a factory. That is not what fine art is supposed to be. And that is what these custom hatters make: fine art.

rrhanselka · Post by **rrhanselka** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:16 pm

Thanks guys for your input . I'm glad I asked that "stupid question". I've learned a lot, so please excuse me if I continue to ask a lot of "stupid" questions.

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:34 pm

No problem. I usually give stupid answers.