Reconstructing a US Wings jacket

[Doug C]

Hey folks a few weeks back I got a great looking Antique Lambskin jacket by US Wings. I got it for a song and decided to rebuild it to remove all the excess leather material from under the arm that's always been common to the Wings jacket. This is my second Antiqued Lambskin from them and it's a wonderfully thick and heavy leather. This one has a unique russet color and thank goodness it has a one piece back, though I'm ignoreing the three piece sleeves . Anyway I measured, measured and measured again and marked the jacket where I thought the new seems should be. I found a local cleaners/alteration shop that has a strong leather alteration add on the internet and turned it in to them about three weeks ago. Here are some pictures that will hopefully show what I'm having trimmed away. Note, this jacket was new when I received it (well practically) and really stiff and extremely awkward, so I dunked it in a sink full of hot water and let it air dry then I removed all of the lineing and batting before these pictures were taken. Oh, I order a thin silver zipper and some black rectangular D rings to be installed too.. along with a new lineing of cotton body with satin sleeves. Notice I am moving the straps up about an inch too. I went back to deliver the D rings on Saturday and the alterations hadn't even been started after almost 3 weeks , but the guy said it would still be finished - I left with less confidence in this guy than what I started with, but hey we'll see. I'm taking a chance with this project, I knew that from the start and am fully prepared to report back with egg on my face . One note, I plan for this to be used during colder weather because it's heavier than my Todd's custom, which I happen to be crazy about anyway... so therefore I'm not worried too much about SA pockets etc. Wish me luck .











Doug C

[indy89]

Is that a US made jacket or the import?

[Doug C]

US made..

Doug C

[Michaelson]

You sure? David Hack insists that only his imports ever had the batting installed. I can attest to that with my VIP. There is no batting under the lining, but there was under the Chinese contract distressed cowhide.

Regards! Michaelson

[genphideaux]

Just recieved a U.S. Wings sig. goat and there is no batting in it. As a matter of fact that was the first thing I checked.

[Doug C]

hmmm... well I'm fairly certain that it's not a chinese made jacket. To tell you the truth I don't think I even questioned it before purchasing, 'cause I knew I liked the leather so much. Here is a picture from the auction, that I magnified and tried to color adjust to show the label (which has been thrown away) closely.. you can see where it says "USA"... and I definately didn't imagine the batting. So, I guess that declaration about only the chinese made jackets having batting isn't completely accurate. BTW, this jacket had the much nicer satin lineing than my positively chinese made clearance one.. w/ the two piece back.



Doug C

[Doug C]

Oh btw, not sure if I mentioned it but I'm correcting the strap configuration too... that is to say that the buckles will now be attached to the back panel an the actual straps attached to the outside area near where the handwarmers are, and moved up just a bit. Wings has this all wrong.

Doug C

[Michaelson]

hmmm... well I'm fairly certain that it's not a chinese made jacket. To tell you the truth I don't think I even questioned it before purchasing, 'cause I knew I liked the leather so much. Here is a picture from the auction, that I magnified and tried to color adjust to show the label (which has been thrown away) closely.. you can see where it says "USA"... and I definately didn't imagine the batting. So, I guess that declaration about only the chinese made jackets having batting isn't completely accurate. BTW, this jacket had the much nicer satin lineing than my positively chinese made clearance one.. w/ the two piece back.



Doug C

Keep in mind, a lot of the old Cooper contract jackets that Wings picked up with Cooper went 'south' may have had the batting installed. What he said was they don't put batting in their jackets that they make in their New Jersey plant.....so, you may have one of the old Coopers with the Wings tag installed.

Just thinking out loud here. I know you found batting, but I also believe David Hack, so the explaination must lie somewhere else.

Regards! Michaelson

[FLATHEAD]

In the picture of you wearing the jacket, we see the marks you made
showing where the new sleeve and other seams are going to be.

In this picture, did you put your fingers on the white lines, and pull
them together, front to back, to see how the seam will be on the sleeve?

From what I am seeing, if you make the new seam where you have it
shown, those sleeves are going to be VERY tight. Is that what you are
shooting for?

From what I can see, it looks like you are removing almost 25 percent
of the overall diameter of the sleeves up near the armpit.

Also, since you are showing that you want the shoulder seams moved
inward, what appears to be about an inch and a half on each side, are you
going to be able to make the sleeves longer by this amount to compensate
for this?

Pulling the shoulder seams inward WILL shorten the sleeves.

I applaud you for doing this, but it looks to me that the jacket you will
get back might be a wee bit to small and tight in the upper body part.

Flathead

[Doug C]

Flathead wrote :

From what I am seeing, if you make the new seam where you have it shown, those sleeves are going to be VERY tight. Is that what you are shooting for?

Yes..I am going for tight upper sleeves, though I think you're overstating it a bit. Atleast I hope .

and...

Also, since you are showing that you want the shoulder seams moved inward, what appears to be about an inch and a half on each side, are you going to be able to make the sleeves longer by this amount to compensate for this?

Yep, the sleeves were a little long to begin with but I stretched them even longer when it was still wet, so that I'd have alot of extra material when it was dry. The guy doing the work measured my sleeve length from the center of my upper back and will adjust the sleeve length.

and...

I applaud you for doing this, but it looks to me that the jacket you will get back might be a wee bit to small and tight in the upper body part.

Yes, you may be right about that and I hope your wrong my impression is that the chest will be looser than I'd like and the upper arms will be snuggish. As I said I'm not really expecting too much from this project but I've always had a nagging curiousity wheather I could get the perfect fit using a local to do alterations. It may be an expensive experiment in the end, depending on how this turns out. Ideally I would have started with a USW Medium as opposed to the Large, but that's neither here nor there at this point.

Doug C

[Michaelson]

On the point we were discussing, Doug, according to an ad in the classified of a Disney Cooper for sale, Cooper's jackets came out of Korea, according to that tag, so it's possible.....

Regards! Michaelson

[Doug C]

Yea I suppose it's possible but I've never heard of any cooper having poly batting, only US Wings. Do we know why only the chinese jackets had this, I mean it would be an extra expense that would potential offset the savings atleast some, of having it produced in Asia. We know the clearance jackets were Chinese made, and it's a slightly different leather: they had an exaggerated surface texture, different lineing, and the color was much darker (very "auth. brown") not to mention the seem down the back - this one is definately different but the lineing sure looks like the newer USW stuff also (and I don't know what this points to) the color is much more russet than the clearance china jackets... I just purchased some Meltonian dark brown "Nu-Cote" leather spray to use on it.

Doug C

[Michaelson]

The point being, about all the jackets I've seen coming from Asian manufacturers have had the batting installed. Why? Heck, I don't know why?!

Maybe it's colder over there!

Oh, don't forget, Wings bankrolled Cooper, so they essentially WERE Cooper during the entire exsitance of that company. Cooper went belly up, and Wings absorbed the business and remaining inventory. The Wings name was installed in what was left of the remaining Cooper jackets.

Coopers were made in the U.S. AND overseas before they handed the keys over to Wings, so their jackets were as much a 'mixed bag' in construction as the US and Chinese contract jackets.

Regards! Michaelson

[Doug C]

I gotcha' Michaelson, thanks for the education. Here's something to consider though, and I think it supports the idea that this Wings jacket and my clearance jacket was made at the same place. These jackets feel very much related, same D-rings, same overdone zippers, but also other less obvious things like how the straps sit too low and how the pocket flaps feel way too thick on both, and that thick pipeing effect around the pockets and collars, the collars are identical btw, two inside pockets etc. I know most of that is pattern but they do have the same overall look and feel in a way that I'm probably not expressing very well, like as if the same person stitched 'em together. Perhaps the good Sgt. forgot about these being labled USA..

Doug C

[Michaelson]

One more item to toss your way.... Wings supplied the Chinese contract manufacturer the zips, snaps, patterns, D-rings.....all hardware. They also supplied the leather, though sourced from a location closer to the Chinese contract folks than his usual sources. The Chinese were then left to assemble the jackets.

That said, I'm not SAYING yours was one of the Chinese contracts. I said it may have been a left over Cooper, made in Korea, with an installed Wings tag.

David Hack may also be simply talking about his current jackets since moving the operation to the New Jersey plant.

Regards! Michaelson

[Rundquist]

This is an interesting project. In the past I’ve gotten rid of a couple of my all-time favorite Indy jackets because they no longer fit me the way I wanted. This is a chrome tanned russet goatskin Gibson & Barnes Expedition.

http://images114.fotki.com/v649/photos/ ... 011-vi.jpg
http://images26.fotki.com/v960/photos/4 ... 017-vi.jpg
http://images26.fotki.com/v959/photos/4 ... 016-vi.jpg

I replaced it with a vegetable tanned russet goatskin Expedition.

http://images112.fotki.com/v586/photos/ ... 004-vi.jpg

Now this is a great leather and a great jacket, but I prefer my original jacket. That batch of goatskin was perfect for an Indy jacket. For an A-2 I’d take the veg tanned goat, in fact I’ve got one and it’s great. I also got rid of a deer skinned Expedition that was also one of my favorites. It's such a shame to get rid of a jacket that has a leather that you particularly like. I can understand why Doug is attempting this.

In fact, Michaelson originally suggested that I have my original russet retailored, because I liked the jacket so much. I opted not to. The reason is that the Expedition would no longer be an Expedition. The construction and expertise that went into the making of the Expedition is what in the end makes it a hardwearing, great jacket. I’ll be interested to see how this project turns out, especially considering it’s something I opted not to do. Considering Doug says that he paid next to nothing for the jacket, it makes it a good candidate for experimentation. Cheers

[Michaelson]

That is STILL one of the nicest FS jackets to ever be shown on this site, in my humble opinion.

Regards! Michaelson

[Doug C]

Great lookin jackets, I kind of like the break from the dark brown and I'm kind of torn between keeping my project the russet that it already is and using the meltonian dark brown spray that I've ordered. I will definately keep this thread up to date as this project progresses. As a matter of fact, my taylor just called me to come out for a fitting He suddenly felt my measurements may be too tight too . great it's rush hour too

Doug C

[Michaelson]

I wonder if he read Flathead's post?

Regards! Michaelson

[Rundquist]

That is STILL one of the nicest FS jackets to ever be shown on this site, in my humble opinion.

Regards! Michaelson

I’ve got a project in the works right now for all the russet brown fans out there. This leather looks to be the neatest yet. I’ll post pics and details when it’s finished. And although this jacket will by no means be considered “standard”, It will be available to those that want it. Cheers

[FLATHEAD]

my taylor just called me to come out for a fitting He suddenly felt my measurements may be too tight too

Its good that he is doing this. He does not want to be responsible for
destroying your jacket.

I can not tell you how many times we have read on this forum of people
measuring themselves for a custom jacket, only to be dissapointed
because the jacket was too TIGHT when it arrived, or had sleeves that
were too short, or the length of the jacket was way off.

Most people do not really know how to properly measure themselves
to get the right fit for custom clothing.

It sounds easy, and its not really rocket science, but one inch off here
or there makes a WORLD of difference.

Thats why its always better to have a real tailor measure you for any
kind of custom work. Thats THEIR job, and they know what they are doing.
Plus, its almost impossible to measure yourself without help. The
sleeve length alone, measured from the back of your neck, is impossible
to do by yourself and have it come out accurate.

I could tell the marks you made on the sleeves for the new seam where
going to be too tight. You would be surpised at what taking just a half
inch to an inch off of the diameter of an armhole will do for tightening it
up.

What you are showing is at least 3 to 4 inches off the diameter by the
pictures you have there. Thats a HUGE amount, and I bet thats why the
tailor is going to question it.

I can't wait to see the jacket when its finished. I bet he does a good
job (once he gets to it).

Flathead

[Rundquist]

my taylor just called me to come out for a fitting He suddenly felt my measurements may be too tight too

Its good that he is doing this. He does not want to be responsible for
destroying your jacket.

I can not tell you how many times we have read on this forum of people
measuring themselves for a custom jacket, only to be dissapointed
because the jacket was too TIGHT when it arrived, or had sleeves that
were too short, or the length of the jacket was way off.

Most people do not really know how to properly measure themselves
to get the right fit for custom clothing.

It sounds easy, and its not really rocket science, but one inch off here
or there makes a WORLD of difference.

Thats why its always better to have a real tailor measure you for any
kind of custom work. Thats THEIR job, and they know what they are doing.
Plus, its almost impossible to measure yourself without help. The
sleeve length alone, measured from the back of your neck, is impossible
to do by yourself and have it come out accurate.

I could tell the marks you made on the sleeves for the new seam where
going to be too tight. You would be surpised at what taking just a half
inch to an inch off of the diameter of an armhole will do for tightening it
up.

What you are showing is at least 3 to 4 inches off the diameter by the
pictures you have there. Thats a HUGE amount, and I bet thats why the
tailor is going to question it.

I can't wait to see the jacket when its finished. I bet he does a good
job (once he gets to it).

Flathead

Many good points brought up. I get the sense that many people here are really after a tailored jacket, whether they have realized it themselves or not. A tailored jacket is a risky proposition for any jacket maker, especially considering how “good” the average person is at taking measurements. Measurements should always be taken by a professional. Cheers

[Doug C]

But you guys should know that I've owned many Indy jackets now, I'm thinking atleast 10 so far and I have meticulously measured and documented almost all of them, along with a few USAAC type A-1 jackets for good measure. I have 3 Indy's right now and had 4 on hand just a couple of weeks back. They come and go, and along the way I've come up with a very good understanding of what I like them to fit like. On top of all this I'm very detail oriented and dare I say, artistic. I have complete confidence that if I had a machine that would sew leather I could have done this job myself - I know that sounds cocky, but I really feel like I could. As a matter of fact I actually considered buying a sewing machine off ebay for this and then use it to create some custom canvas exterior window awnings, then perhaps sell it off again later. BTW - the out of the way trip, way across town today was all for nothng. The guy had tacked the arm seems (with thread) where I asked him to and they were perfect. I still don't have complete confidence in him though..for some reason. Oh and here's the kicker, he needs 2 more weeks to finish this now .

Doug C

[FLATHEAD]

I have complete confidence that if I had a machine that would sew leather I could have done this job myself - I know that sounds cocky, but I really feel like I could.

I don't doubt it. I often thought about learning to use a heavy duty
sewing machine just so I could fix the canvas top on my Jeep as the
factory stitching starts to let go.

Flathead

[Doug C]

Yea, I could probably get the job none, but I have no doubt that my mother in law could get the seems straight if I couldn't.. she's pretty good.

Doug C