Ford’s Head & the Raiders Block

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:55 pm

I’ve been pondering the Raiders block shape in order to finish my homemade block and I’m wondering how HF’s head alters the hat.

Here are two shots of the Raiders hat while not on HF’s head:

The red lines highlight reverse taper (forward) and then taper (rearward) on the front of the hat. I don’t know if there is a word for this, but, for lack of a better term, I’ll call it the “arrow effect.” Here is a shot of Dennis Muren’s hat that demonstrates an extreme example of the arrow effect:

I know that the arrow effect can be caused by having relatively little taper on the front of the block, the closer to 90 degrees the more prominent the arrow effect with a tight front pinch. It can be exacerbated by a tighter and/or lower front pinch and, I’m sure, a few other things pertaining to the block shape. It seems certain that the Raiders block had some front and rear taper.

However, in the two shots below there is no perceptible arrow effect:

In the other off-topic thread, Fedora speculated that Ford wore a 7 3/8, that he was really in between sizes, and that that helps to achieve the Raiders hat look. Michaelson stated that his long oval head easily warps the brim of his 7 3/8 hats. So, when wearing the hat, is HF’s long oval head distorting the regular oval, and eliminating the arrow effect? Wouldn’t it also tend to straighten up the sides (when viewed from the front) if they had a bit of taper? Or is the difference simply due to altered creasing?

- Mac

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:56 pm

I think alot of it is that the hats are creased a little different. The other is you will never see the hat 360 degrees. We don't know what going on on the others parts of the hat.
One thing I notice about the arrow effect ( as you call it). When I place my AB on the table ( like in your pick you posted) and the brim is curled up. It has the arrow effect. Whe I put it on the arrow effect is gone.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:45 pm

BendingOak wrote: When I place my AB on the table ( like in your pick you posted) and the brim is curled up. It has the arrow effect. Whe I put it on the arrow effect is gone.

Yes, that’s what I’m talking about. Some hats have more arrow than others, and some, when unworn, have no arrow – a perfectly straight front crease – whether due to how it is creased or the taper of the block or a combination of both.

Here’s another shot that supports the idea that Ford’s head was straightening out the “arrow”:

It appears that the ribbon is pulled higher in the front. At the bottom, where Ford’s head is in contact with the hat, it’s practically vertical. Just above that there’s reverse taper, and then finally taper to the rear.

And in this one the same thing appears to be happening:

- Mac

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:54 pm

mac, look at this shot of my AB.

It's not like this when it's on my head.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:00 pm

Wow, that's some crazy arrow on the front and reverse taper on the rear!

Are you a long oval, by chance?

- Mac

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:01 pm

I just found this. Same hat and time. Now the brim is up and you see less of the arrow effect. It's amost gone when I;m wearing it.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:12 pm

Are you a long oval, by chance?

I belive I am and the AB is a reg. oval.

I also think that in the sceen where Indy's hat is on the table and looks like mine on my table gets change when the brim is snapped down into place. Even more so when he places it on his head. I think that felt was so soft and can chage so easily. That someone who place on the table (on the set) fixed it to look nice and might have crease the back of the center dent to much. Then when Ford picks it up and puts it on. That crease in the back gets pushed up just a tad.

I know that my AB in these shots are around 3 years old and has become very soft and the slightest touch changes it. I could touch th side of the crown and there will be a tiny indent or crease.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:52 pm

Oak, that last pic looks dead on for the pic above of the Raiders hat on the Imam’s table. Just a little bit of arrow. Since you’re a long oval (probably), and the hat is regular oval, when you put it on the arrow flattens like the Raven bar pic above.

Here’s a shot of Steve’s new block shape:

That comes from this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=20516

The photos links are no longer working, but this pic comes from that thread, I just cleaned it up, cropped it, and adjusted the brightness. We really need to chip in and get Fedora a decent camera.

There is almost no arrow in that hat. For those of us with regular oval heads, I think this “lack of arrow” will look more screen accurate. That’s what I’ve been trying to achieve with my homemade block.

My point is, a hat blocked on the original Raiders block and creased exactly the same will not look the same as on HF for people with a regular oval, because Ford was a long oval.

- Mac

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:04 pm

What I want to know is ... how do some of you guys get these super deep center dents in your hats (Bending-O ... wow)? I can't get a deep center dent to save my life! My head pops it back out every time! Do you all just not wear the hat that far down on your head? It's so windy here in Oklahoma that if I did that, the thing'd fly right off of my head.

Dr.Seuss · Post by **Dr.Seuss** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:11 pm

Strider wrote:What I want to know is ... how do some of you guys get these super deep center dents in your hats (Bending-O ... wow)? I can't get a deep center dent to save my life! My head pops it back out every time! Do you all just not wear the hat that far down on your head? It's so windy here in Oklahoma that if I did that, the thing'd fly right off of my head.

I get the "super dent" with a very tall crown, creased down.

Sincerely,

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:23 pm

Ah! I remember talking with Steve about that around the time when I had my first AB, thinking maybe I needed more crown so I could get a deeper dent, so I could get that right side view going on without it resulting in taper.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:13 am

Ford has a long oval head, which is ONE reason of getting the hat to be stovepiped on the sides, even with a very deep center crease. Erri pointed that out in another thread some years ago.

Steve and I have incorporate this into our blocks shapes from the start, so that a reg. oval head shape woud gain same results as on Ford. This can be done by either modifying some radius' and angles on the block, or my making it ever so slighly more round oval.

Regards,

Marc

P.S.: Good eye! This arrow effect is something the custumer asked about first time he called me up.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:47 am

mac,

I agree with you that Fords hat ( when placed on his head) takes away from that arrow effect and takes away from the reverse tapper. Just like mine does. The long oval pushing out on the reg,oval.
I think some are mising my point. I don't think that center crease stays that low when put on my head. it get pushed out. I think some of the look is not thier al the time ( we put it all together in our minds).