who offers the most SA "RAIDERS" jacket???
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- joeyofarimathea
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who offers the most SA "RAIDERS" jacket???
who offers the most SA jacket??? what seems to be the official opinion here?
Last edited by joeyofarimathea on Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- binkmeisterRick
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You guys have to believe me when I say that THE PERFECT leather for a ToD jacket is Todd's preshrunk lambskin. He only makes Raiders jackets though but if you're like me and not all that concerned with minute ToD detailing, and you ask for it to be made long - it's the best ToD specifically because of the leather. I've owned long Westeds and the lambskin was too...nice, etc. My custom Todd's totally has the Temple vibe!
Doug C
Doug C
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I've had several problems with Wested jackets, one of which they could have resolved very easily, but never did...so I have to work carefully at being objective here...but, that said, I really do have to give the nod to Todd, at least for the SA Raiders look. And that holds true for both his Custom and bargain-priced Standard versions.
Jack
Jack
- joeyofarimathea
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binkmeisterRick wrote:True. There are endless discussions on this if you read through the jacket forum. And even now, you're still bound to get an inconsistent answer. There's plenty of gold in them thar pages!
thanks to everyone who voted! and as mentioned above there are endless threads but thats the problem theyre endless (there is nothing definitive like...ie: if you want to have the best jacket you need to get westeds but custom made with a red and blue collar!) so thats why i posted this poll, cuz im hoping to get a true consensus! also i didnt even know about Todds jackets there is no mention on the main gear page. which proves my point of trying to get a more definitive answer as to who makes the best jacket!
thanks for reading,
JOA
ps- i was referring to the RAIDERS jacket
- Michaelson
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I think you're finally getting it.
There IS no definite answer.... just grades of answers. ...the old 'One man's meat is another man's poison'. YOU have to determine what YOU want and believe to be the best representation of the most accurate jacket and 'best', as what works for me may be so far off the mark for you, you'll wonder if we're even on the same page!
That's why everyone is saying 'read'! The main site pages are being updated as we speak, but all the current information of what is out there and what people are experiencing is spread all through these forum pages.
Regards! Michaelson
There IS no definite answer.... just grades of answers. ...the old 'One man's meat is another man's poison'. YOU have to determine what YOU want and believe to be the best representation of the most accurate jacket and 'best', as what works for me may be so far off the mark for you, you'll wonder if we're even on the same page!
That's why everyone is saying 'read'! The main site pages are being updated as we speak, but all the current information of what is out there and what people are experiencing is spread all through these forum pages.
Regards! Michaelson
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True statement...joeyofarimathea wrote:thanks to everyone who voted! and as mentioned above there are endless threads but thats the problem theyre endless (there is nothing definitive like...ie: if you want to have the best jacket you need to get westeds but custom made with a red and blue collar!)
for me, there was no master list of venders to use as my starting point... I had to dig and dig... this goes for all the Indy stuff... I'd have thought there would be a sticky post with with the master list... not necissarily with gradings and such... but with a general description and link(s)... Something that would be updated as new sources are found...
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- Raider
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Guys, guys, guys... I hope you won't hate me but I read and I observe your growing fascination of Todd's jacket (I am talking generally - not strictly about this topic). I follow your polls (over 50% for Todd's as most SA).
If Todd's one seems more accurate for you (than Wested), buy a bigger, better plasma screen and watch ROLA one more time (scene by scene). There are some details (fe. pockets, zipper...) looked into more accurately than they did at Wested but that's all. Can't you see it just looking at the leather? There's only one company selling "Raiders" and it's Wested (just order it 80s fit). Unless you care more about a few details than a general look.
:junior: Raider
P.S. I love Todd's other Indy stuff though
If Todd's one seems more accurate for you (than Wested), buy a bigger, better plasma screen and watch ROLA one more time (scene by scene). There are some details (fe. pockets, zipper...) looked into more accurately than they did at Wested but that's all. Can't you see it just looking at the leather? There's only one company selling "Raiders" and it's Wested (just order it 80s fit). Unless you care more about a few details than a general look.
:junior: Raider
P.S. I love Todd's other Indy stuff though
Raider,
That's big talk. Can you defend your claims a little? "Just look at the leather" isn't going to do it. I wouldn't call finding what I consider to be the most "screen accurate" looking jacket (Todd's) a "fascination": It's more of a relief. I've had four Westeds and my $150 Todd's Standard looks more SA than any of them. I don't need a bigger, better T.V. to prove it. I know what I see. It's not just "details" either. Unless you count pattern, drape, proportions, hardware and leather as details. Yours is only an opinion and you're welcome to it but go easy on us poor Todd's Fans. We're obviously a sensitive bunch.
Regards, Dr. J
That's big talk. Can you defend your claims a little? "Just look at the leather" isn't going to do it. I wouldn't call finding what I consider to be the most "screen accurate" looking jacket (Todd's) a "fascination": It's more of a relief. I've had four Westeds and my $150 Todd's Standard looks more SA than any of them. I don't need a bigger, better T.V. to prove it. I know what I see. It's not just "details" either. Unless you count pattern, drape, proportions, hardware and leather as details. Yours is only an opinion and you're welcome to it but go easy on us poor Todd's Fans. We're obviously a sensitive bunch.
Regards, Dr. J
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Dr._J, everyone is sensitive here regarding "Indy stuff" preferences
Cheers,
:junior: Raider
P.S. Dr._J, bit off topic, I've just ordered baby Indy jacket at Wested. As far as I remember, you had ordered similar, quite some time ago, for your daughter (hope I am not wrong it was you). Was it ok (proportions, sleeves...)? Thanks!
That's a one shocking statement. I've seen some pics but they must lie. I wouldn't even mention "standard" Todd's in one sentence with Wested. I must be wrong then, as you had both. None of the pics I saw here (even a nice comparison we had at COW in one topic) showed these advantages in my opinion (apart from details I had mentioned above). Leather in particular. I am not saying the leather offered by Wested is perfect ROLA. I am saying it's closer than Todd's. Yes, in MY opinion"I've had four Westeds and my $150 Todd's Standard looks more SA than any of them."
Cheers,
:junior: Raider
P.S. Dr._J, bit off topic, I've just ordered baby Indy jacket at Wested. As far as I remember, you had ordered similar, quite some time ago, for your daughter (hope I am not wrong it was you). Was it ok (proportions, sleeves...)? Thanks!
- FordPerfect
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Gentlemen -
Allow me to offer some pictorial evidence if I may.
Recently I had the priveledge of inspecting the collection of cKing at his home (or Hollywood museum, if you prefer) and took along with me my Todd's standard to compare to what, in his opinion is the closest match to the Raiders jacket - The 80's fit lambskin. The sizing on the Wested is 42R - The Todd's is plain 'ol large. Below are shots of me in both jackets...
The Wested;
The Todd's standard;
You will also notice cKing's amazing display in the background. That jacket is a specially weathered Todd's custom. Judge for yourself what is SA or not based on these pictures but let me tell you - even close up it was difficult for me to distinguish certain features. It is well documented that Todd's is a thin hide - I can confirm that the Wested is more robust and heavier. The colours vary considerably also - Toss's being a reddish brown and the Wested more of a greyer hue. The Todd's is almost 1 1/2" longer also. With the choice of taking home either - with the extra length I settled with the Todd's. Make of that what you will.
While I'm here (and without hijacking the thread!) I'd like to hear your thoughts about whether the length on the Todd's is good and the shade of the the pants i'm wearing (they are Magnoli's!) against the Wested's in the background. I will also make cKing aware of this thread so he can offer some great insights as I still consider myself an Indy newcomer.
Hope this has been useful...
Allow me to offer some pictorial evidence if I may.
Recently I had the priveledge of inspecting the collection of cKing at his home (or Hollywood museum, if you prefer) and took along with me my Todd's standard to compare to what, in his opinion is the closest match to the Raiders jacket - The 80's fit lambskin. The sizing on the Wested is 42R - The Todd's is plain 'ol large. Below are shots of me in both jackets...
The Wested;
The Todd's standard;
You will also notice cKing's amazing display in the background. That jacket is a specially weathered Todd's custom. Judge for yourself what is SA or not based on these pictures but let me tell you - even close up it was difficult for me to distinguish certain features. It is well documented that Todd's is a thin hide - I can confirm that the Wested is more robust and heavier. The colours vary considerably also - Toss's being a reddish brown and the Wested more of a greyer hue. The Todd's is almost 1 1/2" longer also. With the choice of taking home either - with the extra length I settled with the Todd's. Make of that what you will.
While I'm here (and without hijacking the thread!) I'd like to hear your thoughts about whether the length on the Todd's is good and the shade of the the pants i'm wearing (they are Magnoli's!) against the Wested's in the background. I will also make cKing aware of this thread so he can offer some great insights as I still consider myself an Indy newcomer.
Hope this has been useful...
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Thanks Martin!
Many "old timers" know I've been lurking around in the background here for many years. I've been on a quest (like most others) to find the most screen accurate Raiders jacket for my lifesize display. I recently received my Todd's CUSTOM jacket which was pre-washed before assembly, then RE-washed afterwards. After much consideration, I finally decided the time had come to upgrade my Wested authentic lamb.
It was not an easy decision becuase for me, the Wested authentic lamb is STILL the better leather. I love the colour, weight and quality of it. The leather used on my Todd's custom is not as accurate in my opinion.
HOWEVER, the details and fit of the Todd's custom were ultimately the winner - particularly the collar and drape of the jacket. Even with all the specs / 80's fit modifications that my Wested had (I believe it was the very first 80's fit jacket that Wested made since I made the discovery about the sizing differences), it was still not quite as convincing as the Todd's custom when I put it onto my mannequin.
In my humble opinion, I think the best of both worlds would be a Todd custom made from the same authentic lamb leather that Wested used a few years ago (I'm told their new authentic lamb is not quite the same and therefore, not quite as accurate as the one I purchased a few years ago).
Here's a couple of photos that show how close it is regarding the leather - Todd's custom on the left / Wested authentic lamb on the right.
Chris
Many "old timers" know I've been lurking around in the background here for many years. I've been on a quest (like most others) to find the most screen accurate Raiders jacket for my lifesize display. I recently received my Todd's CUSTOM jacket which was pre-washed before assembly, then RE-washed afterwards. After much consideration, I finally decided the time had come to upgrade my Wested authentic lamb.
It was not an easy decision becuase for me, the Wested authentic lamb is STILL the better leather. I love the colour, weight and quality of it. The leather used on my Todd's custom is not as accurate in my opinion.
HOWEVER, the details and fit of the Todd's custom were ultimately the winner - particularly the collar and drape of the jacket. Even with all the specs / 80's fit modifications that my Wested had (I believe it was the very first 80's fit jacket that Wested made since I made the discovery about the sizing differences), it was still not quite as convincing as the Todd's custom when I put it onto my mannequin.
In my humble opinion, I think the best of both worlds would be a Todd custom made from the same authentic lamb leather that Wested used a few years ago (I'm told their new authentic lamb is not quite the same and therefore, not quite as accurate as the one I purchased a few years ago).
Here's a couple of photos that show how close it is regarding the leather - Todd's custom on the left / Wested authentic lamb on the right.
Chris
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Thanks!
It happened during a lengthy telephone conversation with Peter. To cut a long story short, we were talking about the tighter fit of Ford's jacket and then Peter mentioned how the current jackets were made from "modern day" patterns which have subsequently been sized up compared to jackets in the 80's (because apparently, people were of smaller build back then).
Chris
It happened during a lengthy telephone conversation with Peter. To cut a long story short, we were talking about the tighter fit of Ford's jacket and then Peter mentioned how the current jackets were made from "modern day" patterns which have subsequently been sized up compared to jackets in the 80's (because apparently, people were of smaller build back then).
Chris
PLATON wrote:Hey Chris,
Nice jackets.
Please tell us how you made the discovery about the sizing differences.
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Hi Satipo,
No. I just asked for the jacket to match the measurements of the Terry Leonard stunt jacket plus any minor tweaks that Todd felt were required to turn it into Ford's "hero" jacket. I believe he just tweaked the pocket sizes to better reflect what he felt was seen on Ford's jacket.
Cheers,
Chris
No. I just asked for the jacket to match the measurements of the Terry Leonard stunt jacket plus any minor tweaks that Todd felt were required to turn it into Ford's "hero" jacket. I believe he just tweaked the pocket sizes to better reflect what he felt was seen on Ford's jacket.
Cheers,
Chris
Satipo wrote:Chris_King, were there any special requests on the Todd's Custom?
Last edited by Chris_King on Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- Michaelson
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I'm still at a loss to undertanding why Todd can get where the collar meets the storm flap correctly as well as the back yoke looking right but Wested just cannot bring themselves to do it even though they've been asked to time and time again. I wish someone could explain this to me, Peter mostly, but anyone really. I just can't figure it out.
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- Satipo
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There have been examples of Todd's Standard jacket where this hasn't been the case. I believe I read here that his priority is to line up the collar edge with the zip placement so that the collars look balanced when the jacket is zipped up.agent5 wrote:I'm still at a loss to undertanding why Todd can get where the collar meets the storm flap correctly
- joeyofarimathea
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thanks chris and Ford for those great photos!Chris_King wrote:Hi Satipo,
No. I just asked for the jacket to match the measurements of the Terry Leonard stunt jacket plus any minor tweaks that Todd felt were required to turn it into Ford's "hero" jacket. I believe he just tweaked the pocket sizes to better reflect what he felt was seen on Ford's jacket.
Cheers,
Chris
Satipo wrote:Chris_King, were there any special requests on the Todd's Custom?
what does "hero" jacket refer to?
so 80's size just means the basic patterns were a bit smaller then?
also i just found that magnoli also has a raiders jacket and im sorry it was not mentioned in the poll. does anyone have any feedback on the magnoli jacket?
thanks, JOA
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Hi Joey,
"Hero" jacket is simply the term that is used to describe the jackets that Harrison Ford wore. It's just a way of differentiating between Harrison's jackets and those that were worn by the stuntmen.
As I understand it, the 80's pattern was based on proportions for people back in the 80's. Yes, it's smaller than the modern day equivalent but I don't know the exact specifics of which parts are smaller.
Cheers,
Chris
"Hero" jacket is simply the term that is used to describe the jackets that Harrison Ford wore. It's just a way of differentiating between Harrison's jackets and those that were worn by the stuntmen.
As I understand it, the 80's pattern was based on proportions for people back in the 80's. Yes, it's smaller than the modern day equivalent but I don't know the exact specifics of which parts are smaller.
Cheers,
Chris
joeyofarimathea wrote:
thanks chris and Ford for those great photos!
what does "hero" jacket refer to?
so 80's size just means the basic patterns were a bit smaller then?
also i just found that magnoli also has a raiders jacket and im sorry it was not mentioned in the poll. does anyone have any feedback on the magnoli jacket?
thanks, JOA
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I have to admit I'm surprised to see the votes in this thread.
I'm intrigued to hear what criteria is determining the votes. I've owned a lot of Wested's over the years and they are beautiful jackets. However, none of them have ever truly draped and "looked" quite as accurate as the custom that I got from Todd's Costumes. As I said earlier, I still prefer the leather that Wested use but the drape / fit of the jacket and the attention to "screen accurate" details are noticeably superior on the Todd's custom. Which is more important to you guys? Leather or appearance?
If Wested could get all these details correct, then Wested would have won my vote but after years of trying, I never truly got the jacket looking as good as the one I've got now from Todd's.
Chris
I'm intrigued to hear what criteria is determining the votes. I've owned a lot of Wested's over the years and they are beautiful jackets. However, none of them have ever truly draped and "looked" quite as accurate as the custom that I got from Todd's Costumes. As I said earlier, I still prefer the leather that Wested use but the drape / fit of the jacket and the attention to "screen accurate" details are noticeably superior on the Todd's custom. Which is more important to you guys? Leather or appearance?
If Wested could get all these details correct, then Wested would have won my vote but after years of trying, I never truly got the jacket looking as good as the one I've got now from Todd's.
Chris
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Hi Satipo,
It's a 40 Regular and I'm a 46 inch chest so I'm afraid I haven't taken any pics of me wearing it. I'll spare you the trauma of seeing me squeezed into it!
Chris
It's a 40 Regular and I'm a 46 inch chest so I'm afraid I haven't taken any pics of me wearing it. I'll spare you the trauma of seeing me squeezed into it!
Chris
Satipo wrote:Chris, have you got any pictures of yourself wearing the Todd's custom? It looks great on the dummy, but it would be interesting to see it in a more dynamic scenario. Or was it made specifically to fit the dummy and not yourself?
Yes, it was I that bought the baby Wested four years ago. I just asked Peter to make the smallest one he could. I think it was a childs size 3. The proportions and everything were fine. She's almost four now and it fits her great (in fact she may be outgrowing it). I have a one year-old who's going to love it...or ELSE!Raider wrote:Dr._J, everyone is sensitive here regarding "Indy stuff" preferences
That's a one shocking statement. I've seen some pics but they must lie. I wouldn't even mention "standard" Todd's in one sentence with Wested. I must be wrong then, as you had both. None of the pics I saw here (even a nice comparison we had at COW in one topic) showed these advantages in my opinion (apart from details I had mentioned above). Leather in particular. I am not saying the leather offered by Wested is perfect ROLA. I am saying it's closer than Todd's. Yes, in MY opinion"I've had four Westeds and my $150 Todd's Standard looks more SA than any of them."
Cheers,
:junior: Raider
P.S. Dr._J, bit off topic, I've just ordered baby Indy jacket at Wested. As far as I remember, you had ordered similar, quite some time ago, for your daughter (hope I am not wrong it was you). Was it ok (proportions, sleeves...)? Thanks!
Regards, Dr. J
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Thanks Dr._J, that's the pic I have in my archive! I've already ordered baby Indy for my new born Mike, so I am glad to hear the jacket was ok!
And imagine - I did as I said. The Todd's standard is on the way to my home. As well as Wested HH and baby Indy I mentioned... Man, I bought 3 jackets in 2 days. ###### COW
:junior: Raider
And imagine - I did as I said. The Todd's standard is on the way to my home. As well as Wested HH and baby Indy I mentioned... Man, I bought 3 jackets in 2 days. ###### COW
:junior: Raider