who offers the most SA "RAIDERS" jacket???

joeyofarimathea · Post by **joeyofarimathea** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:33 pm

who offers the most SA jacket??? what seems to be the official opinion here?

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:37 pm

..Todd's (where was I supposed to state my opinion?)

Doug C

CM · Post by CM » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:39 pm

This seems a little pointless. Since there is so much material about this already.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:52 pm

True. There are endless discussions on this if you read through the jacket forum. And even now, you're still bound to get an inconsistent answer. There's plenty of gold in them thar pages!

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:58 pm

I think Wested's jackets could be the bomb with a few tiny tweaks.... Still, when done right, they can be fantastic to look at.

Todd's also looks pretty close. I'd like to see a Todd in goathide... for under $500!

C3

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:41 pm

I heard yo mama makes the best jacket.

I kid, I kid.

You didn’t even ask which movie. Cheers

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:57 pm

my 2 cents on who makes the best what:

raiders - todds
tod - the reigning champ is wested but us wings has something in the oven
lc - hands down, wested
kotc - tony nowak - this has yet to be confirmed/determined

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:59 pm

Rundquist wrote:I heard yo mama makes the best jacket. I kid, I kid.
You didn’t even ask which movie. Cheers

don't be start'n any 'yo momma' threads rundquist or i may have to go '_' on you.....(i was going to use 'medievil' but i that catchphrase has been done to death)

Bogie1943 · Post by **Bogie1943** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:11 pm

Put simply,

Raiders, to Harrison Ford's hero jacket - Todds

Raiders, to Terry Leonards stunt jacket - Flightsuits

everything else boils down to - Custom Westeds

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:06 pm

You guys have to believe me when I say that THE PERFECT leather for a ToD jacket is Todd's preshrunk lambskin. He only makes Raiders jackets though but if you're like me and not all that concerned with minute ToD detailing, and you ask for it to be made long - it's the best ToD specifically because of the leather. I've owned long Westeds and the lambskin was too...nice, etc. My custom Todd's totally has the Temple vibe!

Doug C

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:06 pm

I've had several problems with Wested jackets, one of which they could have resolved very easily, but never did...so I have to work carefully at being objective here...but, that said, I really do have to give the nod to Todd, at least for the SA Raiders look. And that holds true for both his Custom and bargain-priced Standard versions.
Jack

joeyofarimathea · Post by **joeyofarimathea** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:22 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:True. There are endless discussions on this if you read through the jacket forum. And even now, you're still bound to get an inconsistent answer. There's plenty of gold in them thar pages!

thanks to everyone who voted! and as mentioned above there are endless threads but thats the problem theyre endless (there is nothing definitive like...ie: if you want to have the best jacket you need to get westeds but custom made with a red and blue collar!) so thats why i posted this poll, cuz im hoping to get a true consensus! also i didnt even know about Todds jackets there is no mention on the main gear page. which proves my point of trying to get a more definitive answer as to who makes the best jacket!

thanks for reading,

JOA

ps- i was referring to the RAIDERS jacket

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:29 pm

I think you're finally getting it.

There IS no definite answer.... just grades of answers. ...the old 'One man's meat is another man's poison'. YOU have to determine what YOU want and believe to be the best representation of the most accurate jacket and 'best', as what works for me may be so far off the mark for you, you'll wonder if we're even on the same page!

That's why everyone is saying 'read'! The main site pages are being updated as we speak, but all the current information of what is out there and what people are experiencing is spread all through these forum pages.

Regards! Michaelson

Grey_Starr · Post by **Grey_Starr** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:35 pm

joeyofarimathea wrote:thanks to everyone who voted! and as mentioned above there are endless threads but thats the problem theyre endless (there is nothing definitive like...ie: if you want to have the best jacket you need to get westeds but custom made with a red and blue collar!)

True statement...

for me, there was no master list of venders to use as my starting point... I had to dig and dig... this goes for all the Indy stuff... I'd have thought there would be a sticky post with with the master list... not necissarily with gradings and such... but with a general description and link(s)... Something that would be updated as new sources are found...

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:44 pm

Michaelson wrote: The main site pages are being updated as we speak..............

As _ would say....'Is this mic on?!

"

It's being worked on........

Regards! Michaelson

Grey_Starr · Post by **Grey_Starr** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:02 pm

lol... I know... but I personally thought it would be in an easier to maintain posts... this would even give the site master something to referance for doing the site... designing a pretty page takes much longer then just words in a post

...

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:05 pm

That, and wording the text to go along with the pretty page. It's VERY time consuming. Just ask the fellows doing the work!

Regards! Michaelson

Raider · Post by **Raider** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:40 pm

Guys, guys, guys... I hope you won't hate me

but I read and I observe your growing fascination of Todd's jacket (I am talking generally - not strictly about this topic). I follow your polls (over 50% for Todd's as most SA).
If Todd's one seems more accurate for you (than Wested), buy a bigger, better plasma screen and watch ROLA one more time (scene by scene). There are some details (fe. pockets, zipper...) looked into more accurately than they did at Wested but that's all. Can't you see it just looking at the leather? There's only one company selling "Raiders" and it's Wested (just order it 80s fit). Unless you care more about a few details than a general look.

:junior: Raider
P.S. I love Todd's other Indy stuff though

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:54 pm

Raider wrote :

Can't you see it just looking at the leather?

Honestly - No. Wested's current leather is a big reason why I've looked elsewhere. I do like their jackets though when done right. Plus, with others you do get a general look AND a few correct details.

Doug C

Dr._J · Post by **Dr._J** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:57 pm

Raider,

That's big talk. Can you defend your claims a little? "Just look at the leather" isn't going to do it. I wouldn't call finding what I consider to be the most "screen accurate" looking jacket (Todd's) a "fascination": It's more of a relief. I've had four Westeds and my $150 Todd's Standard looks more SA than any of them. I don't need a bigger, better T.V. to prove it. I know what I see. It's not just "details" either. Unless you count pattern, drape, proportions, hardware and leather as details. Yours is only an opinion and you're welcome to it but go easy on us poor Todd's Fans. We're obviously a sensitive bunch.

Regards, Dr. J

Raider · Post by **Raider** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:05 pm

Dr._J, everyone is sensitive here regarding "Indy stuff" preferences

"I've had four Westeds and my $150 Todd's Standard looks more SA than any of them."

That's a one shocking statement. I've seen some pics but they must lie. I wouldn't even mention "standard" Todd's in one sentence with Wested. I must be wrong then, as you had both. None of the pics I saw here (even a nice comparison we had at COW in one topic) showed these advantages in my opinion (apart from details I had mentioned above). Leather in particular. I am not saying the leather offered by Wested is perfect ROLA. I am saying it's closer than Todd's. Yes, in MY opinion

Cheers,

:junior: Raider
P.S. Dr._J, bit off topic, I've just ordered baby Indy jacket at Wested. As far as I remember, you had ordered similar, quite some time ago, for your daughter (hope I am not wrong it was you). Was it ok (proportions, sleeves...)? Thanks!

Raider · Post by **Raider** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:43 am

You know what, after Dr._J's statement, I seriously consider ordering standard Todd's. Just to have the basis to discuss the matter. I just can't believe it.
Overall, $150 is a FAIR price for the leather jacket...

:junior: Raider

FordPerfect · Post by **FordPerfect** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:35 pm

Gentlemen -
Allow me to offer some pictorial evidence if I may.
Recently I had the priveledge of inspecting the collection of cKing at his home (or Hollywood museum, if you prefer) and took along with me my Todd's standard to compare to what, in his opinion is the closest match to the Raiders jacket - The 80's fit lambskin. The sizing on the Wested is 42R - The Todd's is plain 'ol large. Below are shots of me in both jackets...

The Wested;

The Todd's standard;

You will also notice cKing's amazing display in the background. That jacket is a specially weathered Todd's custom. Judge for yourself what is SA or not based on these pictures but let me tell you - even close up it was difficult for me to distinguish certain features. It is well documented that Todd's is a thin hide - I can confirm that the Wested is more robust and heavier. The colours vary considerably also - Toss's being a reddish brown and the Wested more of a greyer hue. The Todd's is almost 1 1/2" longer also. With the choice of taking home either - with the extra length I settled with the Todd's. Make of that what you will.
While I'm here (and without hijacking the thread!) I'd like to hear your thoughts about whether the length on the Todd's is good and the shade of the the pants i'm wearing (they are Magnoli's!) against the Wested's in the background. I will also make cKing aware of this thread so he can offer some great insights as I still consider myself an Indy newcomer.
Hope this has been useful...

lingarn · Post by **lingarn** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:29 pm

Those pictures are very useful!

Seeing both jackets on the same person makes it easier to pick out specific differences, and see how very similar they look overall when put in the same lighting conditions, etc.

Raider · Post by **Raider** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:45 pm

FordPerfect, thank you very much for your pictures! We've seen the display in a comparison topic earlier but your pics show the shade difference just great.

Cheers,

:junior: Raider

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:02 pm

Thanks Martin!

Many "old timers" know I've been lurking around in the background here for many years. I've been on a quest (like most others) to find the most screen accurate Raiders jacket for my lifesize display. I recently received my Todd's CUSTOM jacket which was pre-washed before assembly, then RE-washed afterwards. After much consideration, I finally decided the time had come to upgrade my Wested authentic lamb.

It was not an easy decision becuase for me, the Wested authentic lamb is STILL the better leather. I love the colour, weight and quality of it. The leather used on my Todd's custom is not as accurate in my opinion.

HOWEVER, the details and fit of the Todd's custom were ultimately the winner - particularly the collar and drape of the jacket. Even with all the specs / 80's fit modifications that my Wested had (I believe it was the very first 80's fit jacket that Wested made since I made the discovery about the sizing differences), it was still not quite as convincing as the Todd's custom when I put it onto my mannequin.

In my humble opinion, I think the best of both worlds would be a Todd custom made from the same authentic lamb leather that Wested used a few years ago (I'm told their new authentic lamb is not quite the same and therefore, not quite as accurate as the one I purchased a few years ago).

Here's a couple of photos that show how close it is regarding the leather - Todd's custom on the left / Wested authentic lamb on the right.

Chris

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:11 pm

Chris... welcome back. For those that don't know Chris is an old timer here and at Indyfan. His eyes and his quest have always been top drawer.

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:17 pm

Thanks Sergei!

Here's a photo of my latest display which now includes the FANTASTIC AB holster and AB buckle for my bag strap.

Chris

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:55 am

Hey Chris,
Nice jackets.
Please tell us how you made the discovery about the sizing differences.

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:31 am

Thanks!

It happened during a lengthy telephone conversation with Peter. To cut a long story short, we were talking about the tighter fit of Ford's jacket and then Peter mentioned how the current jackets were made from "modern day" patterns which have subsequently been sized up compared to jackets in the 80's (because apparently, people were of smaller build back then).

Chris

PLATON wrote:Hey Chris,
Nice jackets.
Please tell us how you made the discovery about the sizing differences.

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:54 am

Chris_King, were there any special requests on the Todd's Custom?

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:28 am

Hi Satipo,

No. I just asked for the jacket to match the measurements of the Terry Leonard stunt jacket plus any minor tweaks that Todd felt were required to turn it into Ford's "hero" jacket. I believe he just tweaked the pocket sizes to better reflect what he felt was seen on Ford's jacket.

Cheers,

Chris

Satipo wrote:Chris_King, were there any special requests on the Todd's Custom?

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:37 am

Thanks for your answer, Chris. And did you distress it yourself at all?

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:56 am

Todd gave it a light dusting of Fuller's Earth, but everything else is a result of the PRE-washing and then RE-washing.

Cheers,

Chris

Satipo wrote:Thanks for your answer, Chris. And did you distress it yourself at all?

Raider · Post by **Raider** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:12 pm

_ wrote:LOL!

Just like somebody is going to claim Jessica' Alba's butt is too big,

WOW, _, is it?

:junior: Raider

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:53 pm

..Jessica Alba.....

Doug C

Raider · Post by **Raider** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:08 pm

_ brought it up, _ brought it up!

OK guys, another poll:
Which one you choose - Jessica Alba:
A. wearing just 80s fit Wested
B. wearing just custom Todd's

Take it easy...

:junior: Raider

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:13 pm

Don't EVEN go there, Raider....

Regards! Michaelson

Raider · Post by **Raider** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:33 pm

Michaelson wrote:Don't EVEN go there, Raider....

It happenes when somebody mentions Jessica and Raiders in one topic. Just too much beauty...

:junior: Raider

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:35 pm

Beauty? :evil: No....temptation..... yes....

Regards! Michaelson

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:50 pm

I'm still at a loss to undertanding why Todd can get where the collar meets the storm flap correctly as well as the back yoke looking right but Wested just cannot bring themselves to do it even though they've been asked to time and time again. I wish someone could explain this to me, Peter mostly, but anyone really. I just can't figure it out.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:05 pm

Is this the source of the mysterious 'demon roll', '5'?

Regards! Michaelson

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:36 am

agent5 wrote:I'm still at a loss to undertanding why Todd can get where the collar meets the storm flap correctly

There have been examples of Todd's Standard jacket where this hasn't been the case. I believe I read here that his priority is to line up the collar edge with the zip placement so that the collars look balanced when the jacket is zipped up.

joeyofarimathea · Post by **joeyofarimathea** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:57 am

Chris_King wrote:Hi Satipo,

No. I just asked for the jacket to match the measurements of the Terry Leonard stunt jacket plus any minor tweaks that Todd felt were required to turn it into Ford's "hero" jacket. I believe he just tweaked the pocket sizes to better reflect what he felt was seen on Ford's jacket.

Cheers,

Chris

Satipo wrote:Chris_King, were there any special requests on the Todd's Custom?

thanks chris and Ford for those great photos!
what does "hero" jacket refer to?
so 80's size just means the basic patterns were a bit smaller then?

also i just found that magnoli also has a raiders jacket and im sorry it was not mentioned in the poll. does anyone have any feedback on the magnoli jacket?

thanks, JOA

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:04 am

Hi Joey,

"Hero" jacket is simply the term that is used to describe the jackets that Harrison Ford wore. It's just a way of differentiating between Harrison's jackets and those that were worn by the stuntmen.

As I understand it, the 80's pattern was based on proportions for people back in the 80's. Yes, it's smaller than the modern day equivalent but I don't know the exact specifics of which parts are smaller.

Cheers,

Chris

joeyofarimathea wrote:
thanks chris and Ford for those great photos!
what does "hero" jacket refer to?
so 80's size just means the basic patterns were a bit smaller then?

also i just found that magnoli also has a raiders jacket and im sorry it was not mentioned in the poll. does anyone have any feedback on the magnoli jacket?

thanks, JOA

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:11 am

I have to admit I'm surprised to see the votes in this thread.

I'm intrigued to hear what criteria is determining the votes. I've owned a lot of Wested's over the years and they are beautiful jackets. However, none of them have ever truly draped and "looked" quite as accurate as the custom that I got from Todd's Costumes. As I said earlier, I still prefer the leather that Wested use but the drape / fit of the jacket and the attention to "screen accurate" details are noticeably superior on the Todd's custom. Which is more important to you guys? Leather or appearance?
If Wested could get all these details correct, then Wested would have won my vote but after years of trying, I never truly got the jacket looking as good as the one I've got now from Todd's.

Chris

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:32 am

Chris, have you got any pictures of yourself wearing the Todd's custom? It looks great on the dummy, but it would be interesting to see it in a more dynamic scenario. Or was it made specifically to fit the dummy and not yourself?

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:01 am

Hi Satipo,

It's a 40 Regular and I'm a 46 inch chest so I'm afraid I haven't taken any pics of me wearing it. I'll spare you the trauma of seeing me squeezed into it!

Chris

Satipo wrote:Chris, have you got any pictures of yourself wearing the Todd's custom? It looks great on the dummy, but it would be interesting to see it in a more dynamic scenario. Or was it made specifically to fit the dummy and not yourself?

Dr._J · Post by **Dr._J** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:10 am

Raider wrote:Dr._J, everyone is sensitive here regarding "Indy stuff" preferences

"I've had four Westeds and my $150 Todd's Standard looks more SA than any of them."
That's a one shocking statement. I've seen some pics but they must lie. I wouldn't even mention "standard" Todd's in one sentence with Wested. I must be wrong then, as you had both. None of the pics I saw here (even a nice comparison we had at COW in one topic) showed these advantages in my opinion (apart from details I had mentioned above). Leather in particular. I am not saying the leather offered by Wested is perfect ROLA. I am saying it's closer than Todd's. Yes, in MY opinion

Cheers,

:junior: Raider
P.S. Dr._J, bit off topic, I've just ordered baby Indy jacket at Wested. As far as I remember, you had ordered similar, quite some time ago, for your daughter (hope I am not wrong it was you). Was it ok (proportions, sleeves...)? Thanks!

Yes, it was I that bought the baby Wested four years ago. I just asked Peter to make the smallest one he could. I think it was a childs size 3. The proportions and everything were fine. She's almost four now and it fits her great (in fact she may be outgrowing it). I have a one year-old who's going to love it...or ELSE!

Regards, Dr. J

Raider · Post by **Raider** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:17 pm

Thanks Dr._J, that's the pic I have in my archive!

I've already ordered baby Indy for my new born Mike, so I am glad to hear the jacket was ok!

And imagine - I did as I said. The Todd's standard is on the way to my home. As well as Wested HH and baby Indy I mentioned... Man, I bought 3 jackets in 2 days. ###### COW

:junior: Raider

who offers the most SA "RAIDERS" jacket???

which jacket is most authentic and SA?

who offers the most SA "RAIDERS" jacket???