How do we keep the side straight?
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Panama Tom Jr.
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How do we keep the side straight?
So what is the trick to keeping the sides from tapering over time? My AB tapered up pretty bad over the first 2 ½ yrs without any serious exposure to moisture (unless you count Florida humidity.) Steve reblocked it beautifully back in Nov. and it’s still nice and straight but I want to keep it that way. I’ve searched the forum and checked out various sites with stretchers and so called “retainers,” but which of these really works at keeping the sides straight? Steve is busy enough without doing reblocks – what’s the trick or tool to avoiding the taper to begin with? Steve, feel free to jump in…
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binkmeisterRick
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Taper is inevitable, regardless of the brand. The type of felt (wool, rabbit, beaver) will affect how long it takes to taper, and to what degree. It has been discussed prior and many of us have come to believe that vintage hats generally don't taper because the felt has "deadened" over the years, becoming stagnant and no longer reacting the same way as when the hat was new. Steve and Marc have developed a secret process within the last year or so which "ages" the felt, helping to deaden and stabilize it as though it had been around for decades. I'm not sure of this, but when he reblocks a hat now, he may additionally "age" the hat as he does on the ones he is currently producing.
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Panama Tom Jr.
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Also, once a hat is reblocked it gets more stable and SHOULD go longer before it is needed again. I figure by the time the hat is reblocked the 3rd time, the hat generally is getting some age on it and subsequent reblocks would not be needed very often. Vintage hats, even the lower quality rabbit ones, are very stable after aging for many years, just sitting in someone's closet. Much more stable than any new hat. Felt just gets better with age. And the older it is, the more stable the felt is.
Having your own block, that is, the next size down from your hat size is a great investment for anyone who wants their hats to remain untapered, and forego the reblock fees and time required for the reblock. It would literally pay for itself. And these blocks are available from Richard Lamode out of Minnesota.
When we made the film hats, we had to do our little trick of pre-aging the felt somewhat for these hats too. Although it takes us much longer now to make a hat, and the production was needing them, they were willing to work with us and we had to send the hats in piecemeal. A few each week. but the jackets were being made this way as well, as I guess they were handmade along with the hats. But the extra time we put into the construction paid off. The new film has Indy getting wet, and is a very wet film in parts. I can tell you that the ABs got saturated, and all that Bernie did was to pop out the crowns and let them dry, and use them again. Now, you can bet that if the hat did not have the original look, that is the same shape, he would have never re-used these saturated hats. He zeroed in on the hat for the entire film, as he was always on site when Ford was filming. He knew how important this hat was, the iconic-ness of it, so you can expect the hat to look good throughout the film. The fact that he was able to re-use the wet hats pleased him greatly. But, I am also well aware that even an AB can't be saturated over and over again and dried without some taper occurring. No felt can, except some really well aged pure beaver.
I bought a pure beaver vintage hat several years ago on ebay. It was a 7 1/2, but I wore a 7 1/4. So, I figured I would just steam it until it shrunk up to at least a 7 3/8, and then I could drum in a 7 1/4 sweat and the hat would fit me. I steamed that hat forever it seems, with no loss of shape, and no shrinkage. I then moved on to try something else. I saturated the hat, and then fast dried it, in a clothes dry, set on high. It took hours to dry. I found that I had lost 1/4 an inch in crown height(a good thing at the time) but the sizing had not changed, and the hat had not tapered to the point that the naked eye could detect it. I was looking at superman's hat immediately came into my mind. Ok, the only thing left to do was the most drastic of shrinking techniques. I boiled the hat for close to an hour. And I finally got the hat to shrink one hat size to a 7 3/8. I still have that hat today, stored away. It was a 10x vintage Stetson, western styled hat, but not the stiff sort you see today. It was a soft western hat.
The ability of fur to matt and shrink is what creates felt. If felt did not shrink, you could not make hats. As long as the fur is alive, shrinking is gonna occur, at various rates depending upon the type of fur used, and the manner and methods used to make the hat. A fast made pure beaver hat will shrink quicker than a slowly made one. The same applies to any fur felt.
The only way to get a near taper proof fur felt hat is to buy a good quality vintage hat, like a high content beaver hat, or to buy a high quality new hat that will take as many reblocks as you can throw at them without self destructing. The new hat if very high in beaver content will last you long enough to realize the taper proof deal, but you may have to have it reblocked several times before it is old enough to be considered dead felt. Or, just buy a new high quality hat, and store it in your closet for 5 years. Then pull it out and wear it.
Nothing can really take the place of age and the effect of time on felt, or wine for that matter.
The reason that Marc and I sell only pure beaver hats is due to this age factor. We know our felt will last long enough to realize the age factor, and beaver only gets better with age. It mellows out very nicely. I get attached to hats. So, for me, I would rather wear the same hat, or the same couple of hats for years and years, rathe than buying a new hat every couple of years. Many of the factory made hats today, under the big brand names are what I consider to be disposable hats, that fits in very well with America's disposable culture. I see some of those factory hats in the same way that I see paper tissue. You use them, and you throw them away as many cannot be reblocked due to quality issues. That is one of the reasons that I started making hats. I carry the same pocket knife that I bought in 1975. That Puma cost me 80 bucks back then!!! But, I got my money's worth. No, I got more than my money's worth. When I buy anything, I am looking for longevity, which is nothing more than high quality really. And I want things that can take abuse, because I am a clumsy oaf. I want my money's worth. I would rather pay more bucks for something that will keep me from buying again, and again. It is my upbringing, being raised by parents who grew up in the Great Depression. I certainly feel that way about hats. Remember, I have actually spent right at 7500 bucks on hats since I started my search for an accurate high quaility Indy fedora many years ago. I have owned ALL of those hat we all are aware of. I could never find one that was BOTH very high quaility(longevity of wear) along with being very Raiders accurate. IMHO that hat did not exist when I started making hats. I filled that niche for a few folks, and when the Indy 4 film needed a hat that could take lots of water, Marc and I were already geared up to supply that sort of hat. We didn't need Harrison's head getting wet now did we? My quest for a high quality and accurate Indy hat turned out not to only give me what I personally wanted, but also what the costumer was wanting when he was planning the costume for Indy. And IMHO this is the only film in which Indy is actually wearing a real world hat. Sorry to go on and off topic, but my time is limited these days so one post has to cover what is on my mind. Fedora
Having your own block, that is, the next size down from your hat size is a great investment for anyone who wants their hats to remain untapered, and forego the reblock fees and time required for the reblock. It would literally pay for itself. And these blocks are available from Richard Lamode out of Minnesota.
When we made the film hats, we had to do our little trick of pre-aging the felt somewhat for these hats too. Although it takes us much longer now to make a hat, and the production was needing them, they were willing to work with us and we had to send the hats in piecemeal. A few each week. but the jackets were being made this way as well, as I guess they were handmade along with the hats. But the extra time we put into the construction paid off. The new film has Indy getting wet, and is a very wet film in parts. I can tell you that the ABs got saturated, and all that Bernie did was to pop out the crowns and let them dry, and use them again. Now, you can bet that if the hat did not have the original look, that is the same shape, he would have never re-used these saturated hats. He zeroed in on the hat for the entire film, as he was always on site when Ford was filming. He knew how important this hat was, the iconic-ness of it, so you can expect the hat to look good throughout the film. The fact that he was able to re-use the wet hats pleased him greatly. But, I am also well aware that even an AB can't be saturated over and over again and dried without some taper occurring. No felt can, except some really well aged pure beaver.
I bought a pure beaver vintage hat several years ago on ebay. It was a 7 1/2, but I wore a 7 1/4. So, I figured I would just steam it until it shrunk up to at least a 7 3/8, and then I could drum in a 7 1/4 sweat and the hat would fit me. I steamed that hat forever it seems, with no loss of shape, and no shrinkage. I then moved on to try something else. I saturated the hat, and then fast dried it, in a clothes dry, set on high. It took hours to dry. I found that I had lost 1/4 an inch in crown height(a good thing at the time) but the sizing had not changed, and the hat had not tapered to the point that the naked eye could detect it. I was looking at superman's hat immediately came into my mind. Ok, the only thing left to do was the most drastic of shrinking techniques. I boiled the hat for close to an hour. And I finally got the hat to shrink one hat size to a 7 3/8. I still have that hat today, stored away. It was a 10x vintage Stetson, western styled hat, but not the stiff sort you see today. It was a soft western hat.
The ability of fur to matt and shrink is what creates felt. If felt did not shrink, you could not make hats. As long as the fur is alive, shrinking is gonna occur, at various rates depending upon the type of fur used, and the manner and methods used to make the hat. A fast made pure beaver hat will shrink quicker than a slowly made one. The same applies to any fur felt.
The only way to get a near taper proof fur felt hat is to buy a good quality vintage hat, like a high content beaver hat, or to buy a high quality new hat that will take as many reblocks as you can throw at them without self destructing. The new hat if very high in beaver content will last you long enough to realize the taper proof deal, but you may have to have it reblocked several times before it is old enough to be considered dead felt. Or, just buy a new high quality hat, and store it in your closet for 5 years. Then pull it out and wear it.
Nothing can really take the place of age and the effect of time on felt, or wine for that matter. The reason that Marc and I sell only pure beaver hats is due to this age factor. We know our felt will last long enough to realize the age factor, and beaver only gets better with age. It mellows out very nicely. I get attached to hats. So, for me, I would rather wear the same hat, or the same couple of hats for years and years, rathe than buying a new hat every couple of years. Many of the factory made hats today, under the big brand names are what I consider to be disposable hats, that fits in very well with America's disposable culture. I see some of those factory hats in the same way that I see paper tissue. You use them, and you throw them away as many cannot be reblocked due to quality issues. That is one of the reasons that I started making hats. I carry the same pocket knife that I bought in 1975. That Puma cost me 80 bucks back then!!! But, I got my money's worth. No, I got more than my money's worth. When I buy anything, I am looking for longevity, which is nothing more than high quality really. And I want things that can take abuse, because I am a clumsy oaf. I want my money's worth. I would rather pay more bucks for something that will keep me from buying again, and again. It is my upbringing, being raised by parents who grew up in the Great Depression. I certainly feel that way about hats. Remember, I have actually spent right at 7500 bucks on hats since I started my search for an accurate high quaility Indy fedora many years ago. I have owned ALL of those hat we all are aware of. I could never find one that was BOTH very high quaility(longevity of wear) along with being very Raiders accurate. IMHO that hat did not exist when I started making hats. I filled that niche for a few folks, and when the Indy 4 film needed a hat that could take lots of water, Marc and I were already geared up to supply that sort of hat. We didn't need Harrison's head getting wet now did we?
My quest for a high quality and accurate Indy hat turned out not to only give me what I personally wanted, but also what the costumer was wanting when he was planning the costume for Indy. And IMHO this is the only film in which Indy is actually wearing a real world hat. Sorry to go on and off topic, but my time is limited these days so one post has to cover what is on my mind. Fedora
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Panama Tom Jr.
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whipwarrior
I wonder if all types of felt will 'deaden' after so may years? Because I have owned my HJ Poet since May of 1999, worn it across country several times (in the blazing Mojave desert and in the high humidity of southern Georgia), and kept it in a cool, dry closet the rest of the time, and the hat has retained its original body shape like the day it came out of the box. Do you think the felt has 'set', and will remain permanently untapered?
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BendingOak
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hat
Hey whipwarrior, how about a pic or teo of that hat?
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darthjones
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darthjones
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whipwarrior
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Canada Jones
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This is helpful. I checked it but no prices are listed. Any idea what the cost is and as Julien K asked - what exactly do you need? I also have no idea what to ask for.Panama Tom Jr. wrote:http://www.lamodewoodhatblocks.com/
best
Canada
Also, do they work also for any famous brand (ok a part from AB)?Canada Jones wrote:This is helpful. I checked it but no prices are listed. Any idea what the cost is and as Julien K asked - what exactly do you need? I also have no idea what to ask for.Panama Tom Jr. wrote:http://www.lamodewoodhatblocks.com/
best
Canada
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Canada Jones
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whipwarrior
Gentlemen, tie on your bibs and let the drooling begin! Back by popular demand, I proudly present my 90's-era Swales-cut Herbert Johnson Poet: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9911326@N0 ... 802192589/