Toughest Lamb

Heyjude7 · Post by **Heyjude7** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:59 am

alot of great info Gents... thank you so much.. i see how this is a touchy issue... i have decided that lamb is not the way to go for a summber durable jacket.. any suggestions on a summer (NYC SUMMER) leather jacket?

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:26 am

Isn't the Wings factory in NY?

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:47 am

New Jersey, I believe.

Regards! Michaelson

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:03 am

Cheers Michaelson

There you go HeyJude, field trip!

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:45 am

Flathead wrote :

But like Michaelson said, its like comparing marshmellows to each other.

Even M can be wrong sometime!

(that's a joke, kids..)
Seriously though I'm telling you that the Wings lambskin does not fit your blanket statements. I too have a very tough steerhide motorcycle jacket (have been trying to sell it) and this lambskin is basically the same but with plenty of texture. I've owned vintage horsehide jackets and Indy's in goatskin as well. I'm also an ex-roadracer and raced in the CMRA/WERA for 5 years, owned several pairs of racing leathers including kangaroo.. so I'm not only experienced with lambskins, just FYI. You didn't answer my question though about having first hand experience with the Wings lambskin - I was extremely surprised by it when I first came into possession of it.. my pre-conseptions of lamb were shattered. You've apparently got heyjude7 believing that lamb isn't even good enough for a summer jacket. Well let me point out that the Wings lambskin would not because this hide is too heavy for that

.

Doug C

FLATHEAD · Post by **FLATHEAD** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:58 am

Along this line of thought, what is the source (bsides advertising copy) of the data point about kangaroo retaining 90% of strength when it has been shaved down to 50% thickness? Data like this are meaningless unless quantified with comparisons of similar tests of other species of leathers and the source of the testing.

A simple search of the internet will get you the answer to this.

The textile industry has done testing on all types of leathers for more
than a century, and the info they gather is by no means "meaningless".

When kangaroo hid is split to 20 percent of its original thickness, it will
still retain 30 to 60 percent of its original tensile stregth.

Calfskin by comparison when split to 20 percent of its original thickness
will retain only 1 to 4 percent of its original tensile strength.

Lambskin is even worse...

Its the tensile strength of the leather that will either make it tear open
when it comes in contact with something sharp, or it will just make a
scratch or scuff, and not damage the hide.

Flathead

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:05 am

Regardless, let's try to keep this on course with the original question and intent of this thread:

Who makes the toughest lamb indy jacket?

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:06 am

Even M can be wrong sometime!

I get that from my daughters ALL the time.

Regards! Michaelson

FLATHEAD · Post by **FLATHEAD** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:14 am

You didn't answer my question though about having first hand experience with the Wings lambskin - I was extremely surprised by it when I first came into possession of it.. my pre-conseptions of lamb were shattered. You've apparently got heyjude7 believing that lamb isn't even good enough for a summer jacket. Well let me point out that the Wings lambskin would not because this hide is too heavy for that

No, I guess I did not.

I did have a used US Wings Lambskin jacket from 2 years ago. It was
a nice jacket that was not too physically heavy, and it aged very quickly.

It was however, no where near as tough as my Wings cowhide jacket.

That, and the fact that the grain varied too much from panel to panel for
my taste. Some areas were smooth, while some had very large, almost
pock marked areas.

My current Wested lambskin does not do this, as they discard those
areas for the smoother areas when they make their Indy jackets.

Some people like the mis-matched puffy look. I do not.

Yes, lambskin can vary in thickness from one lambskin jacket to another
lambskin jacket, but its still lambskin.

Lambskin is great for a summer jacket, or even a windbreaker. I never
said it wasn't.

Its not good for a jacket that will be used in any type of tough situations
like a motorcycle jacket, as you well know by your own experience.

Are you telling me that you would trust a jacket made of the same
lambskin that your US Wings Indy jacket is made from, to protect
your body when you were road racing?

Or would you rather have the Kangaroo?

I think lambskin jackets make great mall and everyday wear to work
jackets.

They do not make good jackets for actually doing real work in.

Sorry for the tangent, but I just wanted to answer his question.

Flathead

FLATHEAD · Post by **FLATHEAD** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:22 am

Regardless, let's try to keep this on course with the original question and intent of this thread:

To answer this correctly, you really need to know the weight of the
hides each vendor supplies.

I bet not every Wings Lambskin Indy jacket is made from the same
weight hide each and every time.

And as Rambler said, its the variation in hide thickness, as well as
what part of the lamb the hide comes from that will determine its strength.

You would really have to get Wings, Wested, and places like Flightsuits
to give you their specs on the leather they use in order to determine
which jacket is for you.

Thats really your best bet, as each persons jacket is individually made,
and varys from jacket to jacket made by the same vendor.

Flathead

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:27 am

Can't add much more than what Flathead stated. I've owned and handled lambskin from various manufacturers, and they can even be different from jacket to jacket from the same maker.

I've had lambskin jackets from Wested that flat fell apart after a year, and yet my eldest daughter has one I gave her that dates back to the early 90's that is STILL out there working like a borrowed mule. Toughest piece of lambskin I've ever seen, and yet all it needs is an occasional treatment, and back into the field it goes.

I've been more impressed with the old FS lambskin, as it just felt denser than the Wested, or even the Wings offerings. So, it's a toss of the dice. Bottom line is, there is a line that cannot be crossed when using the lambskin jacket in actual real world use. Personally I consider my daughters an exception to the rule, an anomoly so to speak.

For actual use, I'd find something in a light weight cowhide, like the old Wested light weight cowhide, if he still has any, or something from Puppetboy. That's what I have (both a Wested AND a Coyles) in lightweight cowhide for warm weather, and they both serve me well.

Regards! Michaelson

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:07 pm

Does anyone know if Wested is still offering the "lambtouch" cowhide? This would be perfect for heyjude! It is tougher than true lamb, but is lighter than regular cowhide....

Any pics of a lambtouch floating around?

C3

Texas Jones · Post by **Texas Jones** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:00 pm

Doug C wrote: Who, Texas.. who'd you ask? Wested perhaps? Apparently they complied...Got Pics?

Doug C

Yes, Wested. I know they complied because I ordered a second without the request and it is noticeably thinner. Here ya go:

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:22 pm

Ah, that is interesting...I've never known of them to offer different thicknesses, until recently with their vegetable tanned caramel colored leather. never read of anyone making this request to Wested either before now. You learn something new all the time I guess. Do you think or know if it was chrome or veg. tanned? Would you say it's tougher feeling than your thinner one, or that it would tear just as easily? Hey man it looks great either way, thanks for posting.

oh, btw - when was that jacket ordered?

Doug C

Texas Jones · Post by **Texas Jones** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:30 am

I ordered it in fall of '04. I couldn't say if it was chrome or veg. tanned. It was definately tougher. It wouldn't rip or anything like that, but the shiny finish on both jackets are similarly easy to distress. The most notable difference between the two are obvious when I got in the car to drive somwhere with them zipped up. The first, thicker Wested would push into my chin, standing somewhat rigid without any folds and such. The one I have now buckles and folds.

The thicker one definately reminded me of a biker jacket. I wish I requested thicker hide when I got the second. Oh well!

Heyjude7 · Post by **Heyjude7** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:12 pm

Where in New Jersey? i work in Jersey .. the comute is a killer from Queens NY... but i have to...the navy forces me... I work in Lakehurst where the Hindenburg went down

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:48 pm

I have a Wings almost identical to the one GMann has. Too small for me, so off to the Bazaar it goes.
'Blues

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:36 pm

I meant to post this picture of my US Wings "tough" antique lambskin when this thread was running strong, but didn't get to it. So better late than never - here's mine:

Doug C

FLATHEAD · Post by **FLATHEAD** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:08 pm

Where in New Jersey?

I heard it was somewhere in Elizabeth. But that might have been
when Cooper was making the jackets for Wings.

Its a very large place going by the pictures we have seen though.

Flathead

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:35 pm

G-MANN wrote:
Doug C wrote:I'd put my US Wings "Antiqued Lambskin" (which is a really thick New Zealand lambskin) up against any other for toughness. It's quite unlike the lambskin your used to, and read about around here. I'm trying to get another as we speak. Check out the US Wings site and look at the examples of this leather in an A-2, G-1 and Indy.

Doug C
AGREED 100%

G-MANN

Wow, that leather really reminds me of the Nowak Raiders shrunken lamb although it is by no means identical. I wonder if the Wings TOD leather will look more like this after some wear?

So, off topic, I originally came across this thread while researching Wings kangaroo hide and found this link: http://uswings.com/wholesale.asp

Stringer · Post by **Stringer** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:19 pm

i've said this before, but i really think the lamb gets a bad reputation.

my wested lamb is about 8 years old, and has lasted brilliantley. It's got two small rips, that both came from 'extroardinary' situations that were above and beyond normal wear and tear. aside from that, the jacket's been as tough and durable as anything else. It now has all the grain that i see on screen, and natural wear and charachter. And it's only had one coat of pecards (within the last year).

The stitching is also still pretty much as solid as it was when i first got it, despite the bad experiences i've seen on here. I don't know, maybe i just got lucky, it was a wested that fit like a glive and has lasted and aged like a fine wine.

it's been such a good experience that Lamb is the only option for me.

All that wested love aside, ive just ordered a magnoli raiders in lamb. cant wait to compare the two.

Toughest Lamb

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Re: Toughest Lamb