New KOtCS pic: The jacket

[Fedora]

This may have been brought up here already, but in case it hasn't, when we were originally talking to Bernie, I got in on some of the jacket conversations. One of the first things he told us, was that the jacket and the hat had to be able to take alot of water. Seems like it will be a wet film. But Indy always seems to get wet, so what is new with that? But this was a prime concern for Bernie, that the hat and jacket be able to hold up to lots of water. I am no leather expert, but someone must have advised him to go with cowhide. Is cowhide less apt to shrink after it gets soaked, than say lamb? Just thought I would throw this out there. I know several of the hats got saturated, and he popped out the crowns, let them dry and used them again. Maybe he did the same with some of the jackets? Dried them, that is. Fedora

[Doug C]

but someone must have advised him to go with cowhide.

But that probably would have only been Ford since he's Ford's assistance.

Hmm, well let's see.. in the LC when mature Indy is on the ship fighting for the 'Cross of Coronado' he is absolutely soaked. What leather was that folks - cowhide? But then again in ToD, when Indy is in the life raft with short round and willie..again his jacket is completely soaked.. and again I'm not sure of the leather that was used but I thought it was Lambskin (someone will correct me if I'm wrong). So that leaves the scene in Raider's where Indy frantically swims to Jock's bi-plane, soaked for sure..and we know that Lambskin was used. So the point is that it probably wouldn't matter much really. Though perhaps Bernie was sure it would for some reason. I'm sure Goat skin is probably better than cowhide for moisture, and oh btw - there are US producers of Indy jackets using that already.

Doug C

[Fedora]

Perhaps Bernie just approached the costume differently? He knew what it was to be exposed to, and designed it according to what it would see in the film. Kinda like a form follows function deal. I mean, I sure don't know this to be the case, just thinking out loud. Since he is originally from the midwest, I am sure he is full of the midwest sensibility. In fact, I know that he is. A very steadfast guy.

Of course for the gearheads, his signature will be very noticable, but to the majority of the folks that go to see the flick, they won't even notice the differences. This has been said already before, but is worth repeating.

Face it, outside of this group here, no one really cares that the jacket does not drape like the Raiders jacket. In fact, I doubt that the draping of the original jacket figures into their ideas of what an Indy jacket should look like. If I say the Raiders jacket flapping in the wind makes it iconic, some here may agree or disagree. But to regular folks, it is laughable. I think they are trying to please regular folks here, instead of a bunch of gearheads. Now, I can say that, because I am one of you, but I only am concerned about the hats. But I appreciate the attention to detail that you guys live by. Fedora

[Doug C]

Yea, your right Steve, but I think what the potential dissapointment (from some in this crowd, myself included) is that we could be about to loose what inspired us so long ago, and that it's being missed. I think that if the jacket isn't done right it will fail to inspire the next generation of gear heads, and maybe I shouldn't care. I mean I for one always had the image of Indy's 'Raider' jacket tucked away somewhere in my head, for many years before I decided to actually pursue it, it was an itch that needed to be scratch (to borrow _'s phrase). I think it probably had the same effect on a lot of folks that have come here. Same with the hat I'm sure. So think if they'd thrown a cheap looking lid on Indy - the hat crowd would totally be dissapointed because it doesn't live up to the others.

Doug C

[Kittlemeier]

True, so true.

Kittlemeier, here's another thought.

Good, bad, or indifferent, let's suppose you're building a new home. You are using bricks. You want the best bricks you can get, but are on a timeline getting the house built before winter sets in.

You have a choice of either getting your bricks from overseas, or from a brickyard next door. You have built many houses in the past using those imported bricks, and have had good luck with them too....but time is of the essense on this job. You've seen the specs and talked to the overseas representive of that brickyard, and they still produce good product...but, even though it costs more, you have to go with the brickyard next door and get the house done. You're on a deadline, and it's not one YOU set, but the one your homeowner contracted you to do.

Now, insert jacket in place of bricks, and Indy IV production in the place of the house, and I think you have the answer to this puzzle.

Regards! Michaelson

I do understand the point, except that it looks like they used local cinder blocks instead of imported marble.

I just figured that they've been proposing this movie as long as these sites have been around and there are several makers close to LA that could have done it. Bates, Gibson and Barnes, etc. could have done a better job.

To use your analogy, Lucas is the architect, Speilberg the foundation, and Ford the facade. Why'd they get a bean bag maker to upholster the sofa?

[Kt Templar]

I think both Bernie and Tony are getting a lot of premature flak we don't yet know how this jacket will look like when moving, it may be a lot thinner than it first appears.

Yes, Bernie chose a local guy, but he has a track record and I've heard he's worked with both Western Costume and Bernie before. I personally didn't like the T3 jacket but it seemed sturdy enough.

Cowhide comes in many different weights, the lambtouch we know seems even thinner than some lamb so there is a lot of leeway out there.

The leather I have now from Wested is a slightly predistressed soft cowhide the "Novapelle", it looks VERY much like the leather in the outdoors shots. But I have to stress it is SOFT and can drape really nicely, it's like a slightly puffy lambskin. It is nothing like the normal cowhide which is like plate armour in comparison and seems to drape softer than their usual predistressed without the really obvious broken surface.

Peter had sourced a vegetable tanned preshrunk lambskin for Bernie but it was too light in colour, being sort of caramel in colour, if it had been the right shade, who knows what might have been.

[Doug C]

Cowhide comes in many different weights, the lambtouch we know seems even thinner than some lamb so there is a lot of leeway out there.

Good point KT! really to me it's not so much the fact that it's cowhide or even the drape but rather the lack of surface character. Take Todd's cowhide for instance - now that's a good looking hide and seems far more alive than what I've seen of the CS jacket. Same for the gainy cowhide prototype jacket that Wested made (someone posted a picture earlier in this thread), plenty of character to it.

Doug C

[Rundquist]

Face it, outside of this group here, no one really cares that the jacket does not drape like the Raiders jacket. In fact, I doubt that the draping of the original jacket figures into their ideas of what an Indy jacket should look like. If I say the Raiders jacket flapping in the wind makes it iconic, some here may agree or disagree. But to regular folks, it is laughable.

Actually, it’s laughable to many people here as well, only they’re not so vocal about it. We should call this place the “Indiana Jones Fashion Forum”, not Club Obi Wan. I wonder if in the new movie Indiana Jones will stop as he passes a mirror to see if his jacket pleats are closed. Maybe the still of Indiana with the bag on the outside of his jacket is a plot device. It’s really the bizarro version of Indy. I hope the real one shows up soon!

[Indiana G]

hey run....how'd you know......bout check'n the pleat in the mirror thingy.....i thought i was the only one...........

[raider 57]

This is just my opinion, but that jacket looks obviously pre-distressed compared to weathered by wearing through extreme and dangerous circumstances .

I agree.To me new one appears alot like Last Crusade in that respect. Not that the new jacket is lousy looking,I just always thought Raiders/ Temple jackets looked more "naturally" abused, Crusade and IV seem more contrived in their weathering.Could it be washing machine?? But Hey! I can't wait for the new movie!!!!

[Michaelson]

To use your analogy, Lucas is the architect, Speilberg the foundation, and Ford the facade. Why'd they get a bean bag maker to upholster the sofa?

Well stated. No question at all that you have made a firm opinion on this new jacket.

HIGH regards! Michaelson

[Doug C]

Rundquist wrote:
Actually, it’s laughable to many people here as well, only they’re not so vocal about it. We should call this place the “Indiana Jones Fashion Forum”, not Club Obi Wan. [quote][/quote]

I doubt that - if it's so silly why come here, much less add to the conversation at all?

Doug C

[Rundquist]

Rundquist wrote:
Actually, it’s laughable to many people here as well, only they’re not so vocal about it. We should call this place the “Indiana Jones Fashion Forum”, not Club Obi Wan.

I doubt that - if it's so silly why come here, much less add to the conversation at all?

Doug C

I come here for my own reasons. I just have a different point of view than you, if you don’t like it, that’s the way the cookie crumbles, dude. And don’t presume that your writings have any more weight than mine (or vice verse). You can’t read minds. You don’t know what other people are thinking. And come on, grown men talking about the fine details of a fictional character’s costume is at least a little bit silly (and fun). A little sense of humor wouldn’t hurt you either, Doug. Cheers

[Doug C]

I can't find the right emoticon to express what I'm feeling for you right now Runquist.

Doug C

[Doug C]

Whoohoo, sign me up first _, can't wait!!!

ps.. that was a joke as was what I wrote to rundquist (adding the smiley would have ruined it).

Doug C

[dr. tyree]

I can't help but think one reason so much of the gear was sourced in the US is b/c of how weak the dollar is against foreign currencies right now. Thankfully, they were able to find some awesome looking gear close to home. Especially the fedora, which IMHO, looks better than in either of the other two sequels combined.

[Dre]

As for this being a 'fashion indy forum', I think it is that for some people, and for others, it's about getting every single detail perfectly SA. I think both sides are great, and personally, I fall somewhere in the middle. I want my indy jacket to be fairly SA, but as I want to wear the indy jacket in the real world, I'd like it to be functional and to look good on me. I understand that some details and the fit might look great on harrison in his full indy gear, but a slightly different fit would suit me a little better. If some guys want to get every single stitch correct, that's cool too. But I think there's room for both sorts.

Can't we all just get along

[ShanghaiJack]

Personally, I'm thinking of fading away for awhile once the jacket histories get posted... The silliness and the fights never change - do they Adam...

That'll be a shame _. I always enjoy your input, even if I disagree with it.

Regarding the silliness, yes, I suppose that the things some find silly are the same. I've been off COW for about a year and a half or so and it sure seems like there are a lot more petty arguments than there used to be. I guess the mods are allowing more leeway before closing threads.

[djd]

I think there should be room for a little disagreement- it would be a dull place if we all thought the same thing wouldn't it?? (I dare you to disagree with that!). For the most part most arguements here get nasty not becasue of what people say but because of how they say it... Or at least how someone thinks they've said it.... It's very easy to be misunderstood using this medium and it's also very easy to type before you think We're all clearly slightly insane and it's best that we stick together

[ShanghaiJack]

I wholeheartedly agree that there is room for disagreement, and that without it COW would be a duller place. I'd even go so far as to suggest that without disagreement that many of the discoveries – for example the turn – would never have been discovered. That said, however, it sure seems like there are more arguments and open hostility between members than existed several years ago. But perhaps my memory is simply worsening

We're all clearly slightly insane and it's best that we stick together

That much is without a doubt clear as day!

[Renderking Fisk]

... I'm kicking around starting something that is somewhere between IG/COW and FL... Something where no stitch nazi's are allowed, and we can promote events and maybe raising money for things like historic preservation of places like Ft. Mac, Ft. Casey, etc...

It's called "The Fedora Chronicles" _, and you're more then welcome to join us. There's The Main Site, and there's The Electric Speakeasy Forum

Everyone's allowed, but no rude behavior towards other members, no porn, and no boring topics.

Right now, me and The FC'ers are pushing to build lasting on-line tributes to World War II veterans that are related to those of us in our on-line community and soon I'll be taking out an ad in local papers to do more for the people in my are who might not know about us.

You're more then welcome to join us there, Patt... we would love to have you.

[Captain Ron Solo]

I think the new jacket is fine. I haven't yet decided whether I'm going to go for the KOTCS look for Halloween this year, or stick with Raiders. I can't see being able to pull of a KOTCS look with my dark brown goat Wested, though. Maybe if I covered it in enough dust...

Ron

[coronado3]

I agree. The jacket looks pretty darned good. I am a fan of cowhide anyway... The only thing i don't like is that pointy collar. I really prefer wested's nicely rounded collar to the pointy type used by G&B , Cooper/Wings and Novak.

C3