Discussion: Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Bullwhip

Bernardodc · Post by **Bernardodc** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:50 pm

All,

Now that the official COW announcement was made, I believe we are finally able to freely discuss the whip used on Indy 4. To that end, I created this thread. I don't think I'm violating any COW regulations since I've read similar threads on the Fedora and Jacket forums.

Looking forward to hearing your comments.

Regards,

Bernardo

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:56 pm

The 2 whips do look considerably different; I wonder how they'll work that out if they are using both in the film.

Jack

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:11 pm

The theory I've just come up with is this: if Anthony DeLongis prefers to use the Jacka whips, and Harrison was trained for this film on those whips, he'll likely use them for the action scenes. However, to keep with continuity (since we know from the hat and jacket they're trying to keep with LC), he'll probably have a Morgan on his belt for appearances, even if he doesn't use it.

In a nutshell, I think they'll have the DM for his belt and the Jacka for using.

Shane

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:34 pm

The one shot we have so far of Ford wearing the whip shows him carrying the Jacka whip, but all the promo material seems to have been the Morgan. For continuities sake they most likely won't use two different whips in the film, unless he loses one at some point and picks one up later. Just a guess.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:43 pm

Which brings up a question. Which whip will the stuntguy use, who does Harrisons more complicated tricks? He may be used to the Morgan whip, and use it!! I know the guys name, and it has not been mentioned anywhere to date. I made hats for him. Fedora

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:37 am

I was hoping Indy would still be carrying a Morgan. The fact that he's probably not is just another in a long list of things that are putting me off seeing this movie.
So is it being suggested that the wallpaper pics include a new Morgan?? It looks like an old one to me.

ANZAC_1915 · Post by **ANZAC_1915** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:50 am

I know Terry makes a great whip, but that is quite the premium price.

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:10 am

It's less than a DM though, isn't it? I think that's a plus. Just wait till Bernardo Del Carpio starts makin a CS whip. That'll be good.

Shane

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:37 am

Bernardo thanks, for starting this thread.

Feel free to discuss the Indy 4 bullwhips! With that said, I also know how easily it is for tempers and passions to flare in the Indy gear hobby so just remember to keep things civil.

Harrison Ford was sent a couple of David Morgan bullwhips prior to filming to practice with. One of the bullwhips was used in the promo shot is new as well, made earlier this year; The other two are older whips that were in the Lucasfilm prop archives.

Since when has continuity ever had anything to do with an Indiana Jones Movie

To the untrained eye most people wouldn’t be able to tell the difference in between the two bullwhips, especially if the Morgan bullwhips are artificially aged or darkened. There have been instances in other movies where two or more different whips where used by the main character with out explanation as well. As soon as I know which whips will show up, i will post it here. Also while I don’t know if it did any good, I expressed a strong request to the films principal production staff involved with the whip sequences, that the fans wanted to see David Morgan’s bullwhips in the film too.

Steve, No telling which whip that stuntman you mentioned will use just yet. Interestingly though as I understand it some of the stuntmen working on the film purchased their own Indy bullwhips from Western Stage Props late in production as thier personal whips. Mostly Joe Strains bullwhips, but we think that another of our whip makers here may have had one or two of his whips in that order as well, I’ll let him announce that if he wants too. I didn’t include these bullwhips in the official write up, as these whips will most likely not show up in the final film.

Unfortunately the new Terry Jacka bullwhip actually costs a bit more now then the David Morgan’s and it is only available in the 10 ft length thus far. The Australian Stock Saddle Co. is a smaller company and primarily specializes in Australian tack and saddles. They typically sells a smaller number of whips then say David Morgan or Western Stage Props so they mark up the cost of their whips more then the others mentioned to make selling them practical. I’ve talked with Western Stage Props about possibly carrying the Indy 4 Terry Jacka bullwhips for the cost of there regular Australian bullwhips in the near future, as they are also one of Terry Jacka’s representatives. There is no guarantee yet as they want to wait a little longer before anything concrete is announced, but I am hopeful they we will be able to get the whips from them too at some point.

Dan

Mountaineer Lasher · Post by **Mountaineer Lasher** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:23 am

WOW that's an expensive whip! I'm glad I got my Terry Jacka 8-footer (the style used in Batman Returns) years ago for a reasonable price. Neat to know that I'm gonna have stuff from two of the makers of Indy 4 gear, though: an AB and a Terry Jacka!

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:37 am

The only pics I've seen are the early photo of the jacket and whip and a recent wallpaper (I don't frequent the Indy IV threads) - can someone give me a link to the other promoshots featuring the more recent Morgans?

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:23 am

David Morgan now has an updated text for the Indy bullwhip page:

In 2007 we supplied one 453 8 ft. Bullwhip and five No. 455 10 ft. Bullwhip to LucasFilm for Harrison Ford’s preproduction training and for the upcoming movie Indiana Jones 4: the Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls. Additionally we provided two special whips, one 12 ft length and one 16 ft. length, with either polyester or nylon line running down the center extending 30' past the end of the braid. All of the whips were 12 plait natural tan kangaroo hide. Look for our whips when the movie is released on May 22, 2008.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:10 am

Looks like there'll be some swinging then.

K on the run · Post by **K on the run** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:58 am

I have seen some reference shots and that's definitely Morgan whips.
-K

dr. tyree · Post by **dr. tyree** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:21 am

(blood seeping from eye sockets) OMG, did that say $895?!?

I'm having an aneurism....
Glad I got my regulation TJ bullwhip when I did.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:32 am

K on the run wrote:I have seen some reference shots and that's definitely Morgan whips.
-K

Can you point me in the direction of these shots?

ANZAC_1915 · Post by **ANZAC_1915** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:35 am

IndyMcFly wrote:It's less than a DM though, isn't it? I think that's a plus. Just wait till Bernardo Del Carpio starts makin a CS whip. That'll be good.

Shane

No, it is MORE than a DM.

BullWhipBorton wrote:The Australian Stock Saddle Co. is now offering replicas of the Terry Jacka Indy 4 bullwhip for $895.00 for a 10 ft model

DM 10ft 455 $840 http://www.davidmorgan.com/product_info ... cts_id=409

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:19 pm

I never thought I'd see the day where an alternative Indy whip costs more than a David Morgan!

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:22 pm

DMs keep getting more expensive every year. Can you imagine how much they cost back in the 80's?

Shtick · Post by **Shtick** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:37 pm

whipwarrior wrote:David Morgan now has an updated text for the Indy bullwhip page:

...with either polyester or nylon line running down the center extending 30' past the end of the braid...

30 Feet?! Doesn't that seem a tad bit excessive?

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:30 pm

It probably means 30 inches.

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:38 pm

pschtyckque wrote:30 Feet?! Doesn't that seem a tad bit excessive?

Wait! And take back one kadam to honor David Morgan whose whip this is.

Shtick · Post by **Shtick** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:25 pm

Is that a metric Kadam, or US standard...?

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:54 pm

LOL Good one, Satipo!

)

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:01 am

Satipo wrote: Wait! And take back one kadam to honor David Morgan whose whip this is.

They're.... whipping... in the wrong place?

Shane

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:49 am

They may have needed that extra 30’ length of line to attach the bullwhip in to a rigging or pulley system for a stunt, But thats just a guess.

Dan

VP · Post by VP » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:13 am

IndyMcFly wrote:They're.... whipping... in the wrong place?

Braiding.

jabahutt70 · Post by **jabahutt70** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:51 pm

I'm excited about the new movie, the new whip, everything! Because I love whips, it doesn't matter to me what style is used in the new flick. A DM whip isn't the only bullwhip out there, and I can't understand why a different whip, hat or jacket would put off anyone from seeing the movie! Whatever piece of gear the character picks up and uses in a scene is all part of the movie. Besides the Indy character is what makes the uniform so special, and I think the spirit of the adventures, the fighting, beating up of bad guys, traveling the world in search of artifacts...THAT is the movie, not what's he's wearing or using! Unfortunately, image is what the world of advertising and media are all about these days, what the emphasis is put on. I guess I don't care so much about the image.

Anyway, looking forward to the movie!

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:25 pm

jabahutt70, I don't mean to be nit-picky, but if you don't care so much about Indy's image, why are you interested in his gear?

jabahutt70 · Post by **jabahutt70** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:31 pm

Hey Satipo, I don't think you're nit-picking, I understand your question. In fact, after I posted that message, I kinda thought something similar to what you asked. I love Indy's image, I love the gear, but my point was for us not to overlook the spirit of the Indy character. I understand how people become accustomed to and even attached to certain aspects of the gear Indy carries. But at the same time, I don't understand how someone can totally be opposed to any new changes in that gear. I mean, some people seem completely opposed to the new movie, disappointed in aspects of it, before it has even come out. I guess what I'm saying is, let's wait till we actually see the movie and any "new" gear in it before we decide if we're against it or not. Hope this makes sense.

Steve.

WeeMadHamish · Post by **WeeMadHamish** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:26 pm

Hey, Indy abuses whips. He probably goes through them like candy. Would it be so surprising if he, as a character, occasionally bought a whip from a different maker sometime during that period of twenty years?

I'm surprised he still wears the same clothes.

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:52 pm

Ten Foot Bullwhip
NEW, a ten-foot bullwhip designed exclusively for Harrison Ford in the upcoming INDIANA JONES sequel. The whip is perfectly balanced, with a six-inch handle and a handle core that extends three feet into the belly of the whip. The structure of this Australian-made whip promotes a thunderous crack, while offering superb accuracy. It is an extremely fast whip. The leather is twelve-plait kangaroo.

In the info about about the new Jacka whip, it mentions that the handle core runs into the thong... I guess that is why the whip appears to be coiled in a wider loop than a morgan...

c3

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:14 pm

All of Jacka's newer whips are like that.

I've had a 6 foot Jacka that I bought used about 2 years ago, and I've used it A LOT, and it's STILL really rigid. The handle is about 12-13 inches long, and the solid part of the thong continues another 12-13 inches above the transition knot.

I believe Adam Winrich has done some maintenance on a Jacka whip, and I remember him mentioning that the core contains some pretty thick cowhide and (I believe he mentioned,) a small section of steel cable to add to the rigidity of the whip, (Adam? Care to elaborate?)

And the result is as described, it makes the whip extremely "Springy" and gives the whip a very DISTINCT feel. I've cracked whips made by LOTS of people, and I've never thrown one that felt like a Jacka. Truly unique.

I'd be interested to throw the new Indy whip, as I'm sure it's VERY different from mine. Jacka has completely changed how he makes his whips over the last 10 years, as I've cracked older Jacka whips of the same "Model", (from about the same time period of the whips he did for Batman Returns, one Cathy "Usnavyblueanglel" Williams, and one Chris "Canasta" Camp's) and they feel COMPLETELY different than mine. Interested to see what Jacka's doing now.

All the best, and happy cracking!

-Dan

dr. tyree · Post by **dr. tyree** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:51 pm

I hate to do this, but I gotta:

I'm a little disappointed in the pricing of the TJ Indy whip. Comparable whips in Colin's catalogue (which I have rec'd for years) have always hovered around the $500 range and under depending on length, plaiting, etc. Their top of the line bullwhip was the DeLongis style 8 foot 12 plait roo hide whip, which was priced around $500. It's an incredible price jump from there to $900 in one hop. There could be a lot of reasons why, supply/demand, fear of being unable to meet demand, etc., so I'm not pointing fingers at Terry or Tony or Colin, just saying it's disappointing. Compared to other Indy gear, that's two Westeds, or (nearly) four Adventurebilts, or two Smith and Wesson HE2's, or three pair of Aldens, or goodness knows how many clover leaf Zippos.

Geez Louise...

(end of whining)

Canyon · Post by **Canyon** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:06 pm

You mean to say that there are two whips?

Okay, I knew that. 8-[

Personally, I think that the whips from the new movie look gorgeous!

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:12 pm

There's several whips.

Morgan supplied some. Joe Strain supplied some, and Terry Jacka supplied some.

How many of these will actually make it to screen or let alone be "hero props," we won't know till Spring, (though the one that I've seen on Harrison's belt in all the production/promo pics I've seen is the Jacka. No mistaking that plaiting.)

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:58 pm

Dan, Terry uses cowhide in his bellies also in his older whips he used natural cane for the handle foundation where now they are graphite or fiberglass. I dont belive he ever used used steel cable in his standard bullwhips, at least not in his older whips.

I hear you dr. tyree ! When i originally approched Colin about the Indy 4 whips back in July they where going to be priced at $500 for the 10ft modle, I was all set to place the first order for one then suddenly he came back and told me that price quickly jumped another $400 almost overnight due to the price increase in Kangaroo skins. I know he is trying to make a profit, but I am really hopeing we'll be able to get these at a more reasonable price though Western Stage props at some point in the not too distant future.

Also Be sure to check out these new images from Indy 4, showing the bullwhips

http://www.indyfansfilm.com/images/indy4b.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.indyfansfilm.com/images/indy4c.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dan

Captain Ron Solo · Post by **Captain Ron Solo** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:53 pm

What is the purpose of the knot in the fall of this whip?

Is there a purpose? I've never seen anything like that before.

Just curious,
Ron

LemonLauren · Post by **LemonLauren** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:04 am

LOL! I was puzzled about the weird fall knot too! I can think of absolutely no practical purpose for a knot to be in a fall???? I have no idea. My best guess here is that the photographer for this promo poster decided that his picture would look better without a huge long fall coiling around inside the pretty braided whip. With the knot loose and large the way it is, it shortens the fall so that it doesn't even make a full circle inside the whip. And if you notice, there is a sort of visually appealing trio of evenly spaced knots for the viewer's eye to rest on inside the coiled whip: the fall hitch, the weird fall knot, and the knot where the popper is tied onto the fall. Also, the end of the fall there creates a sort of visual arrow pointing the viewer's eye back toward the movie title after the eye has followed the circular coil of the whip.

This is all just speculation, but from a graphic design standpoint (and I have a little background there) it seems to make sense. And besides, I truly cannot think of any other explanation.

Lemon Lauren

PS: On the little 4ft Indy style whip I just finished, I took one picture of it with a knot like that one in its fall - totally just for laughs. I'm a dork.

)

VP · Post by VP » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:26 am

Probably shortens the fall temporarily so that it's easier to store. IIRC David Morgan used to tie it that way.

dr. tyree · Post by **dr. tyree** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:56 am

Borton--
I would be all over that whip for $500; hopefully we'll see that become a reality. Terry's whips, as has been previously observed, lay out beautifully, and his springy handle-to-thong transition would be perfect for a 10 foot bullwhip, IMHO.

K on the run · Post by **K on the run** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:24 am

Sometimes knots form just by cracking the whip.
Regards,
K

Captain Ron Solo · Post by **Captain Ron Solo** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:58 am

Yeah, I've had my share of inadvertent knots resulting from lousy technique.

Nothing quite that cool, though.

BTW, Lemon Lauren - nice whip!

Ron

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:51 pm

That was the original plan Tyree, I have several whips by Terry and really like them. I think this Indy whip should be a nice one, He is still on wait and see status with WSPs though.

I just updated the Indiana Jones and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Bullwhip thread announcement to include the whips Joe Strain supplied to the films production too.
viewtopic.php?t=24551

I really think the knotted fall is most likely just a tangle they never un did. Its not surprising to see tangles and knots on some of the movie bullwhip falls that have come up for auction or are stored in the Lucas archives.

Dan

Bernardodc · Post by **Bernardodc** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:20 am

Check this new pic out. It's the cover of a german book available from Amazon.de

Again we see it's the Jacka whip the one Indy is using.

Regards,

Bernardo

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:52 am

Yep, and he's using the DeLongis upside down throw style, (what I now call a "supinated" throw,) and if he actually tried to throw the whip in the way that he currently is holding it, he's smack himself in the butt ;-)

God I love publicity photos. ;-)

-Dan

hollywood1340 · Post by **hollywood1340** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:10 pm

That may be true, but as a Delongis man, it sure looks good on film!

louiefoxx · Post by **louiefoxx** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:32 pm

You'd think that since it's for a kids book, they would tuck his belt in...it looks a tad "dirty", but then it just might be me.

xoxo

Louie

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:40 pm

Thing is, they most likely didn't take those pictures specifically for kids books. The publisher is just using the publicity shots they were given, sadly.

I'm not a DeLongis man, but I agree that it looks good on film, and that "Supinated throw" has it's uses, and I utilize it often in my own whip stuff.

I wasn't ragging on Tony D. But in that picture, the whip has absolutely no energy in it. That was MY point. If he threw that whip forward, it would either hit him in the butt or take his hat off.

And THAT particular picture just does not look good on film. And that's the photographer's fault. Now it may have been that there was just no room to swing that 10' beast around in the studio to get some good action shots like the legendary pic of Harrison throwing a sidearm crack, (though I HAVE found that throwing the whip the the reverse "DeLongis" style works better in closed spaces, as there's less energy in the whip, so if it DOES hit something, it's less likely to cause damage.) But that just...ummm...doesn't look good.

-D

ANZAC_1915 · Post by **ANZAC_1915** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:23 pm

thefish wrote:Now it may have been that there was just no room to swing that 10' beast around in the studio to get some good action shots like the legendary pic of Harrison throwing a sidearm crack,

Speaking of which, does anyone know where to get a really high resolution copy of that famous picture?

Discussion: Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Bullwhip

Discussion: Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Bullwhip

Knot in the fall