Just received my Todd's Standard

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:17 pm

This shot has the same scarring/distressing on the shoulder as the jacket in the flying wing sequence. "I rest my case" (as Platon likes to say)

.

Cheers

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:00 pm

...which was a Wilson jacket, as I suggested above.

Regards! Michaelson

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:55 pm

Now I'm really lost.

:

How can you tell that the jacket above is the exact same jacket as was used in the Flying Wing sequence just from the limited lighted spot on the shoulder above?

The jacket used during the Flying Wing sequence was a Wilsons jacket??? Wha?

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:36 pm

why they would want to make one side longer than the other. It makes no sense why they'd want to stretch it so far and make it so much longer than the other side of the collar.

I agree with you - they wouldn't want to do that, and they didn't do that. The collar is already longer on the non-storm flap side. The way it looks is a natural result of the water distressing. The photos you're looking at also have the jacket rotated to the right - I've seen photos where it's rotated the other way and it looks longer on the left side.

Also, do you have any solid proof that the shirt collar was made shorter to accentuate his neck are you basing this on your imagination and supposition?

There's no supposition in the fact that designing clothing from scratch to flatter an actor is what costume designers do. Knowing that, I look at that shirt and see what they did and why. Yes, it is supposition, but based on observation and knowledge of design.

Here you go.

I'd estimate that collar is about 1"-2" too short to button. Sure, it looks like a regular collar and you never notice - that's the genius of it. Go put on a dress shirt that will button around your neck and look at it open in the mirror. You'll see the difference immediately. You'll have a lot more collar siticking out in front of your neck. Now pinch about an inch or two out of the collar behind your neck - and there is is, as if by magic, the Raider's shirt collar.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:08 pm

Todd,
I completely understand where you're coming from on this. I know there are little tricks and manipulations that can be applied to create illusions you would otherwise know were not present. I'm just saying that I respectfully disagree with you based on my observations. Of course, you do know alot more about leather in all respects than I do, but when it comes to speculation we're both on the same ground. I think we're just both as passionate about it. Truthfully, I can't wait to see your watered down jacket results. I'm just very interested in finding out the actual cause of the collar since this has always been one of the things that has stumped me since I started getting really in-depth about the neuances about the jacket.

That being said, take a look at this pic of the shirt. It looks to me as though it can be very easily buttoned at the top. What do you think?

This one shows the shirt almost closed where it would be buttoned at the top.

This one shows the shirt hanging pretty far off his back, which may be what is happening in some of the shots.

I did find other pics as well that show a pretty normal collar that appears to be able to be buttoned with no problem, although I will admit some pics do look tight as you mentioned.

Keep in mind also that I'm not argueing with you, man. Just discussing things like we normally do around here. Of course, if you have some inside info on any of this, please spill it so we can put it to rest. I just wanna know the truth behind it all.

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:26 am

Interesting this shirt collar thing. Like Agent 5, I too had noticed that in some scenes, the shirt collar hangs off his back, giving the impression of a shorter collar from the front. But look at this picture and notice in particular the epaulette positions in relation to their side of the collar:

Now I'm wondering if the shirt collar was made longer on the buttonhole side!

junior · Post by **junior** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:19 pm

Jacket collar caper solved:

Go to www.indianajones.com
Click on Galleries,
Click on Raiders of the Lost Ark,
Select the 2nd pic where Indy is switching the idol,
Enlarge,
The seams on top of each shoulder show you that the jacket is sitting perfect on his shoulders, not pulled to one side or the other. Look at the collar. Each side is hanging down almost at the same place. Only difference is about 3/4" on his right side, just as Todd said.

junior

bobbyd · Post by **bobbyd** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:55 pm

junior wrote:Jacket collar caper solved:

Go to www.indianajones.com
Click on Galleries,
Click on Raiders of the Lost Ark,
Select the 2nd pic where Indy is switching the idol,
Enlarge,
The seams on top of each shoulder show you that the jacket is sitting perfect on his shoulders, not pulled to one side or the other. Look at the collar. Each side is hanging down almost at the same place. Only difference is about 3/4" on his right side, just as Todd said.

junior

Here's the image Junior is referring to

Assuming the collar is rotated slightly to favor the right side, does having the left side extend halfway across the stormflap even it out and make them symmetrical?

Risu · Post by **Risu** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:22 am

If it helps this discussion at all, I just soaked and stretched my Wested collar and it looks dead-on accurate. Both sides are the same length and the collar hangs quite a bit lower than before. It's also much looser around the shoulders now and I can throw the jacket on with ease, which usually makes one side pull over my shoulder farther than the other, making it look like one side is longer. When I first got the Wested I thought it was a nice jacket, but it didn't look right. Now when I look at it, it's the jacket I've wanted since I was 5.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:28 am

I am going to wet stretch my collar this Saturday and I will let you know the results.

That's not the point tho. We are asking if we can get a ready made (not stretched of course) larger collar from the maker.

I did the soaking/stretching exercise this weekend on my wested lamb but the results weren't very encouraging.

I soaked the collar in warm water first, let it soak about 20 minutes. Then I pulled but no real stretching occured. Then I wetted it with 5 liters of boiling water. That made it really soft and when I pulled it noticed that it could be stretched much easier. I pulled hard for long time and a few seams poped. The collar was extended in length by about 1 inch.

The bad news is that when collar dried returned to normal. It is a myth that you should keep pulling until it dries. It took 2 days to dry. I don't think anyone can pull that long.

Unless some mechanical "pulling device" is employed, I don't think the desired effect can be achieved.

Also, the 1 inch extra length achieved temporarily by pulling did not seem enough to resemble what we see on screen.

Photos if/when I am able.

I guess my collar looks now like the image junior is referring to, and although not very long, basis that image seems to be SA.

Also check collar here, seems to be of normal length

Look at the teeth of this guy. Amazing huh?

how many photos per post again?

OK, I continue with links

http://www.theraider.net/films/raiders/ ... ts/305.jpg

and two with long collar

http://www.theraider.net/films/raiders/ ... ts/233.jpg

http://www.theraider.net/films/raiders/ ... ts/269.jpg
Not extremely long in this one

Risu · Post by **Risu** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:54 am

I soaked my collar in cold water and it took it about 20 hours to dry. For the first 2 hours I pulled lightly on it being careful not to bust any seams. I did hear a quiet tear early on, so i let up a bit. Upon inspection now I can't find any damage. After the first two hours I took it off and let it dry, occasionally putting it on and stretching it for 5 minutes at a time for the next 4 hours. The I hung it up and let it dry overnight. I didn't measure my collar beforehand, but it appears to hang at least 2-3 inches lower than it did before. I'll take a picture later today if I can and a comparison shot.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:16 am

Maybe it is useful to mention that my jacket has leather facing on the zipper. How about yours?

Risu · Post by **Risu** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:33 am

Yep, same here. Off the rack Wested. It has shrunken back a little since I stopped stretching it, but if someone had the conviction to keep stretching it every 20 minutes or so for a full 20 hours, they could keep it stretched all the way.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:33 pm

PLATON,

I don't think the goal here is to make the collar LONGER, it's to make it hang down better. It looks longer that way. It looks longer because
1. It lays much flatter, as the vertical curve it softened
2. It is straighter because the horizontal curve is softened.

The pictures you show demonstrate that the apparent length viewed through the lens of the camera can change greatly depending on how the collar is shaped. Especially note the second pic in the bar scene - look at how far above his chest the left side collar is - several inches up in the air. Flatten that down against his chest and it would look much longer.

Oh, and just look at the shirt collar in those pics - looks short to me in all those shots.

WeeMadHamish · Post by **WeeMadHamish** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:01 pm

Risu wrote:I did hear a quiet tear early on, so i let up a bit. Upon inspection now I can't find any damage.

They use a heat-fusible webbing to loosely bond the two sheets of leather together and help keep the collar flat. What you heard was probably this webbing tearing inside of the collar. I inadvertantly ripped the stitching on one of the straps on my Wested, and it's in there too.

Risu · Post by **Risu** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:32 pm

Hm, well, luckily for me it turned out perfect so I don't have to stretch it anymore.

Sorry the second picture is so blurry. Bad lighting and dirty mirror. It's important to know that that is a dress shirt and not a field shirt of any kind, the collar is quite large as it's not even fitted to me. I got it from my dad, who wears everything roomy. That picture is just one example of how the collar can be worn. I can throw it on carelessly and get lots of different configurations. It sure beats that crappy flying-saucer-esque collar it came with.

Dre · Post by **Dre** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:03 pm

On the topic, still deciding whether to get the jacket replaced or not. On one hand, it looks nice (at least in person) as a jacket, but on the other hand, it'd be more SA if it was a size larger. So it depends if I want a nice looking, snug leather jacket, or a larger, more indy looking jacket.

CM · Post by CM » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:49 pm

Get another jacket man! you'll never be quite happy with it unless the size works. Sorry... couldn't resist.

Arca Perdida · Post by **Arca Perdida** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:47 am

Agreed. Size does matter

Dre · Post by **Dre** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:56 am

CM wrote:Get another jacket man! you'll never be quite happy with it unless the size works. Sorry... couldn't resist.

In person it works as a normal jacket

CM · Post by CM » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:14 am

Since when has an Indy jacket been a "normal" jacket? If you want nomal go to Myer (in joke for a fellow Aussie).

Dre · Post by **Dre** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:45 am

Well it's still obviously an indy jacket - and even with the smaller size it looks a #### sight more 'indy-like' than my wested. But if i'm going to wear it I want it to look good as well, and to me, the current size I have looks good (in person).

That being said, I might still exchange it.

Also, even though this jacket isn't exactly the best leather, it's better than any jacket we could ever find in myer

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:29 am

Hm, well, luckily for me it turned out perfect so I don't have to stretch it anymore.

Sorry the second picture is so blurry. Bad lighting and dirty mirror. It's important to know that that is a dress shirt and not a field shirt of any kind, the collar is quite large as it's not even fitted to me. I got it from my dad, who wears everything roomy. That picture is just one example of how the collar can be worn. I can throw it on carelessly and get lots of different configurations. It sure beats that crappy flying-saucer-esque collar it came with.

Man, collar on the two jackets look the same... No way the AFTER is longer..

djd · Post by **djd** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:43 am

I have to agree that it doesn't really look any longer (hard to say whether it actually is). It does look more wavey which is a result of soaking it- and this makes it look more Raiders/ToD in my opinion. It looks better to me- more SA but not necessary longer!

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:47 pm

The leather of the collar does look more relaxed which could make it appear to be longer depending upon how the jacket is being worn and the angle the photograph was taken from. Just my two cents.

Risu · Post by **Risu** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:37 am

Yea, it's not a lot longer, but it was back farther on my shoulders in the second picture. The collar used to have creases on the sides from being shipped folded, they were pretty stubborn. As a result the collar sat really high on my neck. Now the collar sits more loosely on my shoulders.