Just received my Todd's Standard

Dre · Post by **Dre** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:10 am

So far, i'm liking it much more than I thought. However, there's one major niggle. But firstly, the leather is MUCH better than I thought it would be. certainly not top grade leather, but for a 150 USD jacket, it's nice. It definetely feels like lambskin rather than plether for those of you who were worried about that.

The fit is great, except for one major concern. The jacket fits well in the sleeves, shoulders, chest, stomach etc. However, it's very very VERY short. I ordered a small and i'm only 167.5cm tall (which is quite short) and my jacket seems to sit just above the waist. Feels more like a matador jacket - although this could be that i'm just not used to short jackets...but you can definetely see my shirt/tshirt or whatever poke from underneath.

So far, though I haven't had a close inspection, the construction seems fine. I had no problems with creases or anything falling apart yet (though i've only had it for 10 minutes). Also, the arm holes are definetely a nice size and I noticed that the action pleats actually work on this jacket and seem to stay mostly closed (again, haven't had alot of time with it yet though...).

I'll post pics very soon...though I might return the jacket due to the small length, but i'll let you guys tell me whether it looks silly or not.

Dre · Post by **Dre** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:29 am

After a few minutes more, i'm getting used to the length, and it doesnt look bad in the pictures.

Dre · Post by **Dre** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:36 am

Unzipped and hero pose.

Some shots taken with a decent camera (these are from my phone), different lighting etc will be done later. On that subject, are there any requests/specific details people would like to see pictures of?

Also, upon taking out my goatskin wested, the goastskin feels like an absolute tank comapred to the Todd's. It'd be nice if the Todd's standard could come in goat for 100 dollars more or something to that effect, but the lambskin has a good drape and is nice for a lightweight jacket (although I fear it might tear at the slightest sign of trouble)

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:13 am

Nice lookin' jacket. I'd say that the length looks spot on to me. It took me a while to get used to the length of my Wested when I first got it, and it is longer than yours I believe.

Risu · Post by **Risu** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:38 am

You have to expect your shirt to hang out. Back in the 30s they didn't have t-shirts, so a jacket just had to make it to your belt. Sometimes I just tuck my shirts in when I wear my Wested if I'm feeling uncomfortable with the length. The jacket looks great too, I'm thinking more and more about spending more money on one of these every day.

Dre · Post by **Dre** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:54 am

After seeing a bit of raiders just now, the jacket really is spot on. However, I still think it does look a bit longer on Harrison. Maybe he's wearing his pants a little bit higher up? It's amazing how much they got the overall fit (minus the length) right though. Especially the back pleats - even though they still open up, they open up exactly the way they do on-screen.

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:29 am

I wonder if it's partly due to the fact that he's wearing jeans. I've noticed that my jacket looks shorter with jeans than it does with my Indy trousers. Perhaps it's due to the tops of the pockets on the jeans being lower. Regardless, the jacket fits very nicely. I wish my Wested fit that well.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:53 am

To be totally frank, I think it's a little too tight and a little too short. The sleeves seem to cling a bit too much and are too narrow to boot.

Sorry, Dre. JMO.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:11 am

I agree with KT and in support of his argument I post the below photo

Just compare your hero pose with the below screen shot
Also take a look at the collar in comparison to Todd's

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:29 am

My opinion, send it back for a medium..and I bet it'll be perfect.

Doug C

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:50 am

If it helps any, NONE of the jackets have the collar you guys keep looking for

This is absolutely correct. For some reason not one vendor has gotten the length (not width or shape) of the collar right, at least to match the hero jacket most worn in the film. Erri said he ordered a slightly larger collar on his latest Wested but either hasn't gotten it or posted it yet. I'm waiting to see what that'll be like.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:08 pm

Sorry, Dre, I can't see the pictures for some reason, so I can't offer suggestions on the fit.

REGARDING THE COLLAR: Much has been discussed lately about the "length" of the collar in the film. I can offer a few reasons why the collar looks so long. Please refer to PLATON'S picture above and note the following:

1. Look at how "short" his shirt collar is in comparison with his throat. Look at your own shirts and tell me if they don't hang open farther than that. This is creating an illusion that the jacket collar is bigger.

2. Look at the how wide the lapels are open - They're spread nearly to his shoulders. Has anyone ever had a jacket like that? If you got one like that you'd send it back! The curve of the collar is completely gone, due to...

3. Water soaking. I discovered this look is very easy to achieve by soaking the jacket and then putting the jacket on a mannequin (or yourself) and pulling on the collar. Just pull it straight down like gravity. Instant Raiders collar. No kidding. The curve of the collar doesn't come out that drastically without the water treatment.

To tell you the truth - the standard jacket I've been wearing daily since they arrived is beginning to look that way. The leather is getting softer and softer and the curve of the collar/collar band is starting to get more limp. It looks just as large as the photo above. If I can get someone to take pictures of me later I will show you.

I'm telling you, the collar is not extra large - it's the way it hangs. You don't get that without distressing and water soaking. Believe me now or believe me later.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:18 pm

Oh, yeah, let me tell you about that shirt...

It's no ordinary shirt. Whoever designed it was a genius, pure and simple. It may look simple, but IT AIN'T!!! That's the genius of it, like most great costume designs.

You're looking at one of the unusual design features (ILLUSIONS) of this shirt - an extra small collar. Why, you ask? IT MAKES HIS NECK LOOK BIGGER. Check it out - that collar won't button on his neck, it's too small. It's on purpose. It makes his neck look more muscular. Very flattering to his proportions.

There are other design tricks employed, but I'll share them later.

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:22 pm

I stand by Aeris_Canon's statements..

My US Wings clearance priced (foreign made) Antiqued Lambskin jacket does have a longer collar than the other Indy jackets that I've owned. But I have done what Todd suggested with the water treatment and pulling, though it was a bit longer to begin with. I laid (haha - laid..) it flat the other day and was suprised at how long it measured, can't remember the number but I think it was 19" and I wear a 17" dress shirt.

Doug C

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:37 pm

Oh, yeah, and the jacket collar is purposely worked that way to spread open that far. Guess why... you win! To make his chest look bigger.

It works.

Water, stretching, and distressing. They sculpted the jacket to fit him.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:12 pm

i believe if you want more of an sa look like in the temple, a size up should do it. your jacket looks very fitted, kind of like the large standard that i have. i asked for an extra large body with standard sleeves and length for my custom job.

todd and i discussed this whole colar issue in detail when i ordered my custom. he is right on the mark about the colar spreading open to give the appearance of a larger chest.....but what if we do have a larger chest/shoulder build? are we going to need a modification to the colar pattern to suit? was i willing to change the proportions of the pattern just to get that look? i learned that my standard jacket can be fashioned to look like the raven bar jacket when it is zipped up, sloppy colar and all, but just with less of a droop because my chest takes up more room in my jacket than ford in his.

in the end, i trusted the measurements that _ supplied todd, todd's keen eye and his opinion in regards to the colar and it's proportion to the jacket.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:13 pm

oops, one more thing. the picture of indy with satipo above.....his jacket looks baggier because he has his holster and mkvii bag spreading the body out.....imo. it gives the illusion that his jacket has more girth than it does....betcha the pleats are open because of that.

i'll be getting my todd's custom in a couple of weeks and hopefully wested will get my construction package (it's been over a month in the mail

) then i can do a comparison in jacket patterns.

junior · Post by **junior** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:41 pm

Indiana G said, "i'll be getting my todd's custom in a couple of weeks and hopefully wested will get my construction package (it's been over a month in the mail) then i can do a comparison in jacket patterns."

and that is something to look forward to. and of course, hords of pics of your custom Todd's will be posted too, eh?

junior

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:51 pm

but of course junior. plus the todds custom will have a new twist to it. i don't know why todd has never announced it.....and if he hasn't, then i'll have to take full credit for it as the new and improved G-styling {diving under the plymouth again}

i can see it now....somewhere in california, mr. coyle is going "indiana G's idea eh??? well let's see how SA indiana G will look if i give him d-rings on his precious raiders jacket......moohoowa wa wa wa wa........"

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:53 pm

Change the oil while you're under there, G.

Regards! Michaelson

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:17 pm

Puppetboy wrote

Look at the how wide the lapels are open - They're spread nearly to his shoulders. Has anyone ever had a jacket like that? If you got one like that you'd send it back! The curve of the collar is completely gone, due to...

Actually, every non leather jacket I owned in the 1980s had longer collar than normal. I remember that because when you zipped the jacket all the way up the collar hanged inches away from your throat.

Anyone else got that?

Without doubt, Todd is one of the guys here who has real knowledge regarding the jacket. Some of us know a few things, but Todd went up a step being a jacket maker, so there can't be a comparison. As a result, I can take his word about the soaking, but wonder why should we have to soak and pull the collar if we can get it like this effect out of the box.

Todd if I were you, I would make a test jacket with longer collar made with pleather (so not to waste good lamb) just to see how it will look.

If the result is nice, why not keep the design and offer jackets like this?

Just a thought.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:20 pm

And yes Dre, get the medium (and post photos here again)

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:35 pm

What purpose would they have to wet and pull the collar down? I just don't get it. I agree with Platon that if they wanted it that way it would have been specified in the design and implimented in the final jacket.
I've always been of the opinion that perhaps the jacket in question was the prototype or first of the 12 made for the film and that particular collar was an anomaly. Other jackets in the film have the regular collar we now get from all vendors.

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:13 pm

You guys are totally missing Todd’s Point. The water soaking was to sculpt the jacket to Ford’s body. Ford was supposed to look much better than everyday shmucks like us. And if there was ever a part of a new jacket that needs to be fiddled with when new, it’s the collar. I train every new jacket collar, from Indy jackets to A-2’s. Dre’s collar just looks like it’s been pulled out of the shipping box. Of course it’s not going to look right. And why would anyone post a picture of Ford with the collar flipped up to “compare” collars? That makes no sense. Cheers

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:17 pm

Agent 5,

According to _'s research, they soaked ALL the jackets for distressing. The result is dramatic. The stiffener in the collar goes limp, and you can shape the leather like putty. Part of the process is pulling the leather to re-stretch it and simulate gravity and age. You can stretch the pocket flaps into any shape you want, the collar, too. Lambskin is especially stretchy when wet.

The reason is simple - to make the jacket look 20 years old. It works. And while they were at it they molded the drape the way it looked best.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:23 pm

this colar looks like todd's offerings right out of the box for sure:

....something tells me alot of gearheads will be dunking their colars in water tonite.........

FordPerfect · Post by **FordPerfect** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:36 pm

While we are here and I await my exchange I wonder if I could ask just how Todd arrived at the conclusion of the body length? Am I right in understanding the measurements as such were taken from a screen-used jacket? If that's the case the comment about wearing it with jeans is dead-on. I wish I'd have taken pics now before I sent it back but in my jeans the jacket comes maybe 1" below waist, and in my Wested trousers it sits at 3-4" below. Is this considered to be the ideal length? Todd's jacket in both L & XL is 25" long. I'm 5'10 exactly and that would presumably make it perfect. No-one will convince me Harrison is over 5'11...Will they?

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:21 pm

agreed. bang for buck she's up their with the federations imo.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:39 pm

I find it incredibly hard to believe that it went from this...

...to this.

I'm not buying it. My money is on a totally different jacket with a longer collar.

Dre · Post by **Dre** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:29 pm

Tahnks for the tips guys. I'm still not totally sure if I'll send it back for a medium though. Just a bit worried that a medium will be a tiny bit too big. It would probably be more SA for raiders, but I actually feel the fit on this jacket is closer to SA temple of doom (it was more snug on him in ToD) and I generally prefer my jackets more fitted than loose.

But i'll still consider it. I'm also not sure if he'd take it back as i've cut the tag off etc?

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:29 pm

Is there a chance that the first shot may have been a test shot before filming began, making that jacket one of the infamous 'Wilson' jackets, and the second shot a Wested?

Regards! Michaelson

junior · Post by **junior** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:36 pm

I concur Michaelson. No way those are the same jackets, unless water REALLY stretches things. I'd say Wilsons for preshoot promos and Wested's for filming. To be fair concerning the pics, the second one really seems to be pulled over to HF's right side and this would allow more slack for the jacket to hang farther down the chest.

junior

Dre · Post by **Dre** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:38 pm

Also, take note of how open indy's jacket is on him - both the chest and the collar - it might give the jacket a bigger appearance. In my 'hero pose' the jacket isn't open as much - the collar is especially more closed. Having a look at the raven bar sequence, indy's jacket is a little bit less snug than mine but not much (although on second thought - maybe the medium would be that little bit much to give it the more SA raiders apperance)

Risu · Post by **Risu** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:46 pm

I just have an off-the-rack Raiders, but short of a couple small details, it matches up to the Raven bar scene perfectly. I don't know whatt he deal is with the collar on mine, but it's certainly not shaped like a normal collar. In that weird Han Solo-ish promo pic, the collar goes straight up, folds over, and straight back down. Mine just sticks out from the main jacket. I don't have any pics of this handy. I considered returning it, but it would just be too much trouble. Maybe I'll try the water to stretch it out and mold it into a normal shape. I would assume that should be done BEFORE any Pecards is applied, right? And does it make the color run at all?

CM · Post by CM » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:09 pm

Dre wrote:Tahnks for the tips guys. I'm still not totally sure if I'll send it back for a medium though. Just a bit worried that a medium will be a tiny bit too big. It would probably be more SA for raiders, but I actually feel the fit on this jacket is closer to SA temple of doom (it was more snug on him in ToD) and I generally prefer my jackets more fitted than loose.

But i'll still consider it. I'm also not sure if he'd take it back as i've cut the tag off etc?

Get the medium, cobber, that one there don't look right. The Raiders film jacket often looks a little too large. Better that than too tight and too short. To me the jacket should end around three inches over your belt and the shoulder seams should end an inch over the end of your shoulders.

Just my thoughts - Cheers

indy89 · Post by **indy89** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:11 pm

Hey Dre, your jacket looks great! I can't wait to recieve mine.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:27 pm

I find it incredibly hard to believe that it went from this...

...to this.

I'm not buying it. My money is on a totally different jacket with a longer collar.

No questions those could be the same jacket. The pre-production shot is before the water treatment. I'm not surprised in the least as I have seen the same results on jackets I have soaked. Exactly the same. Note the pre-production pic has two features:

1. The shirt collar is larger, making the jacket collar look smaller
2. The jacket collar is sticking out vertically angled towards the camera - it is shortened by the camera angle. Look close at the right side and you'll see it's not touching his body at all - it's sticking straight out.

That said, the second photo has the following differences:

1. Smaller shirt collar
2. Collar is water soaked and draped down limp as a rag. You can see the evidence of the water treatment on the left side of the collar (our left) because of the hollow curl of the lapel (the drying process tends to do that - it will loosen up after a bit of flexing).
3. The jacket is drastically rotated on his body. The right side of the collar way up by his neck leaving much more to hang down on the left. Also, the left side is longer anyway.

You don't have to buy it. I've done it, so those photos don't surprise me at all. As soon as I get a chance, I'll do one and take photos so you can see it for yourself.

Oh, yeah, and before you'all go and soak your lambskin jackets, be aware that serious shrinkage can occur - good if you want to shrink your jacket. If you want to retain it's size, you'll have to let it air dry and continually stretch it as it dries. (You can sometimes stretch the sleeves a good two inches!)

WeeMadHamish · Post by **WeeMadHamish** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:56 pm

Puppetboy wrote:3. The jacket is drastically rotated on his body. The right side of the collar way up by his neck leaving much more to hang down on the left. Also, the left side is longer anyway.

Indeed.

Arca Perdida · Post by **Arca Perdida** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:58 am

FordPerfect wrote:No-one will convince me Harrison is over 5'11...Will they?

Well, I looked it up out of curiosity and at some point he was 6'1, but now he's just shy of 6'.
So, back in the Raiders days, 6'1.

Dre · Post by **Dre** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:07 am

After the 2nd day i'm still mostly happy with the jacket, though I haven't actually been able to wear it out as it's warming up now in Australia (now wasn't the best time to actually buy a jacket). I'm still very undecided about the size - i'll leave it for a few days more to make up my mind. While a bigger size might look more SA, it still might be too big for my likeing. I like the chest size, sleeve length etc...and the length I might be able to deal with.

The main reason I got this jacket was to get a smaller indy jacket (That's a bit closer to what I see onscreen) then my wested, which is absolutely massive in comparison.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:11 am

3. The jacket is drastically rotated on his body. The right side of the collar way up by his neck leaving much more to hang down on the left. Also, the left side is longer anyway.

Then I'll give you a shot where the jacket is straight on and not hanging off his shoulders so no excuses can be made.

The one side is just longer. I just can't understand what reasoning anyone in the costuming dept. would have to purposely make one of the collar sides longer than the other. I can buy that they may have stretched the jackets but why this feature specifically? Also, to stretch the collar down this far would mean not only doing it to the collar, but to the entire portion of the jacket which the collar is attached to. I would think this would screw up the proportions of the jacket in some way, which doesn't seem to be the case.

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:33 am

Arca Perdida wrote:
FordPerfect wrote:No-one will convince me Harrison is over 5'11...Will they?
Well, I looked it up out of curiosity and at some point he was 6'1, but now he's just shy of 6'.
So, back in the Raiders days, 6'1.

This is heavily debated on another website, http://www.celebheights.com/. If you ever thought gearheads were obsessive, you should check out the discussions over there!

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:37 am

That's gotta be the ultimate adventure playground, hasn't it?

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:59 am

The non stormflap side of the jacket does have a slight tendency to hang lower on the chest than the stormflap side, perhaps it's the stormflap stopping it drooping down so far on the other side. This even happens on the denim Raiders I have.

Another possibility is that's just how Ford wears his jackets as the effect is even more pronounced on the TOD jacket the right hand side often is way lower than the stormflap side.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:24 am

KT, you are right about that. The non-stormflap side is at least 3/4" longer to compensate for the putting the zipper off center.

The one side is just longer. I just can't understand what reasoning anyone in the costuming dept. would have to purposely make one of the collar sides longer than the other. I can buy that they may have stretched the jackets but why this feature specifically? Also, to stretch the collar down this far would mean not only doing it to the collar, but to the entire portion of the jacket which the collar is attached to. I would think this would screw up the proportions of the jacket in some way, which doesn't seem to be the case.

Agent5, unless you've water-formed a jacket or two, you really don't have any cause to argue this point as you have no experience at all. You're arguing with me based on how you imagination and supposition, not experience. I'm telling you I have seen regular jackets come out looking just like the photos you are posting with no special considerations to the collar. If you haven't done it, then just relax and reserve your opinion until I can show you a demonstration.

I'm not saying I know that is not a different jacket than the other photos, and you don't know either. All I'm saying is that from my OBSERVED hands-on practical experience, I believe I can duplicate what you see there using the same methods they used. Just give me a while to put this together - I'm very busy for the next few weeks, but I will put together this demonstration for general knowledge and for those who'd like to re-shape their collars.

BTW, on the wells photo, look at how small his shirt collar is. That creates all kinds of illusions like a larger jacket collar.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:30 am

I am going to wet stretch my collar this Saturday and I will let you know the results.

That's not the point tho. We are asking if we can get a ready made (not stretched of course) larger collar from the maker.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:36 am

I applied a hot steam iron to 2 collars today. No harm done

.

Muhahahahaahaha!

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:05 pm

I'm not arguing with you, man. At least I didn't think I was, but okay, since I have no idea what I'm talking about, I'll wait for your tutorial. On the other hand, you're avoiding my question as to why they would want to make one side longer than the other. It makes no sense why they'd want to stretch it so far and make it so much longer than the other side of the collar. Keep in mind also that just because you CAN do this does not mean this is exactly what was done on the jacket in question.
Also, do you have any solid proof that the shirt collar was made shorter to accentuate his neck are you basing this on your imagination and supposition? After going over many photos from the film it looks to me that he can button it up just fine, but what do I know?

St. Dumas · Post by **St. Dumas** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:31 pm

I wonder if this is the collar "problem" Bernie Pollack felt needed to be remedied. If Todd's theory is correct and the wide Raiders collar was the result of artificial distressing, then rather than reinvent the order in which to constuct a jacket, all Nowak had to do was... not soak the collar.

Ha ha. Who knew?

(Even from the nit-pickers' perspectives, I don't think many fans felt there was any problem with the look of the collars in TOD and LC, and even the Raiders collar has its own personality.)

SD

Risu · Post by **Risu** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:46 pm

They didn't intend to make one side longer than the other. At different points in the movie the collar is longer on one side or the other. That's probably because Ford didn't get all obsessive compulsive and just let the jacket hang there however it naturally would after he jumped across a pit or tumbled down a hill. If he stood back up and the jacket was twisted around on his body he didn't shrug his shoulders and tweak the jacket until it was back on comfortably again. What we usually see on screen is most likely the result of Indy being too busy adventuring to worry about how his clothes looked.