Resin Indy guns questions for owners/prospective buyers PIC

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:13 pm

Hey all! I recently aquired a nice 1917 in .45. I was considering putting it in some silicone to make a couple copies for the Canadian (and American) guys. (Because I'm in Canada no hassles for us). Just wondering how detailed is it possible with firearms to go? I was just planning on no moving parts, but I'd consider casing different items seperately to make that. Anyone have any thoughts or imputs? Oh and yes the barrel will be made to 4", with correct grips etc. I haven't done a cast that would enable the gun to hvae moving parts before so I would just see if it'd matter a whole lot? (I usually just cast for stunt guns).

Any imput would be great!

****Updated last post with teaser pics!****

Arlington Beech · Post by **Arlington Beech** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:19 pm

No input on how to do it.

But you'd have a buyer in me! I've been having quite the time trying to find something in Canada (got a molded colt revolver from Azuma...and was quite surprised that that made it through when customs opened it)

So with yours...that means i just have to find a Webley!

Let me know when you start selling these

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:59 pm

wow KN, i'd like to see what you can do with this. i own artsee's prop and it is quite nice but it was not a simple task getting it over the border.

from what i could see, artsee casts the following parts separately and then assembles the works after painting:

1. grips
2. frame
3. cylinder, swing arm and the retractor pin
4. (on the stembridge revolver) the modified sight

as i live in canada too, you can freely send these props through the mail without much consequence, as long as its labelled 'antique toy/prop gun'.

let us know how your project turns out. i'd be interested in getting one if you were to sell them........actually, i'm interested in getting a real 1917....been looking for a year now you lucky bugger

rhboyd · Post by **rhboyd** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:59 pm

REALLY interested in a Webley casting... I'm a Canuk too, and worried about the cross border thing...

I wouldn't mind a FEW pieces, but to me it doesn't need to actually work... or have any moving parts. I built a GREAT kit of the Blade Runner gun, and it was challenging, fun to built, great to paint... and is a nice display piece... AND came across border OK.

http://www.ronboyd.com/ImageHost/RB-PKD.jpg

Keep us posted, please!!!
-r!

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:01 pm

Indiana G, I might have a hookup for you. Let me check into it. Of course unless you have a 12(6) here you can't mod the barrel to the correct 4" length. Stupid regulations!! But hey it's all good. Heck I don't think you even need to label anything when shipping within Canada. I know I don't when I ship live firearms, because of the safety concern.

I think I will cast without grips just because that means I can start on this thing soon, without having to wait. Plus like Indiana G mentioned, easier to paint!

I think I'll try the static version first with dummy rounds in the cylinders.

I also have a Webley I guess I could do, but I don't know if it's the correct model. I'll have to check more into that!

I think the cast will be done out of a black tinted resin. If the cylinder etc is done seperately I'm just worried about the logistics of how to fasten it. That would involve having to do a working release and whatnot. Unless it just sits there. Hmmmm...

Now if anyone has a line on correct grips, even to borrow let me know!! I have the old wood ones on there.

rhboyd · Post by **rhboyd** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:09 pm

KingNothing wrote:
- I think I will cast without grips just because that means I can start on this thing soon, without having to wait. Plus like Indiana G mentioned, easier to paint!

It will look better too... the more separation you get, the "realer" it will look. Painting is an issue, but more so the look of the separate pieces.

- I think I'll try the static version first with dummy rounds in the cylinders.

kewl.....

- I think the cast will be done out of a black tinted resin. If the cylinder etc is done seperately I'm just worried about the logistics of how to fasten it. That would involve having to do a working release and whatnot. Unless it just sits there. Hmmmm...

Again,,, don't overthink it... if it needs to be pinned and glued in... so be it. The separte piece will look GREAT inside the frame... who cares if it moves... pieces can be adjusted in the kit phase to make it work when assembling... it just takes some fiddling! Oh... and I'd be interested in the colt as well... cool!!!!

-r!

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:20 pm

boyd, that's a great BR gun. i was looking to get one of those for my collection......can i have it

kingnothing.....you're right a 4" barrel requires a prohibited licence (which i do not have).....but a 1917 i would look into buying will be DEWATed anyways so size of the barrel will not be an issue once you rip the guts out. lemme know if you know something

i look forward to seeing how your project develops.

cheers,

G

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:23 pm

I also have a Webley I guess I could do, but I don't know if it's the correct model. I'll have to check more into that!

you'll need the webley mk vi (.455 elley).....it would be a bonus as well as a one of a kind if you could cast this piece with the SA correct "peacock" or "bird's beak" grips as opposed to the square target grips.......i'd definitely be interested in that for sure.

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:25 pm

We'll see about the webley for now. Checking into the 1917 first.

I think I found the grips here: http://vintagegungrips.net/ao-s118.html I think these are quite close...

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:06 pm

those look like the stembridge grips all right

the bapty grips have the gold s&w medallion in them. to do this gun would be the same as the stembridge except that you would need a ramp sighting installed on the barrel, rather than that semi-circular one.

also, and i can't remember which is which, one was a .45 and the other was a .455

cheers KN

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:17 pm

The write up on both guns can be found in the archives section.

Regards! Michaelson

viewforum.php?f=25

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:51 pm

Well after review I'll be doing the non shooting one (stembridge) first. Because it already has the sight there etc. In the future I'm sure I'll do the ramped version as I have plenty of revolvers with that ramp that I can put on the 1917.

Ooo can't wait to start the project! Hopefully this weekend or next!

A couple features I hope to have on the first prototype:
Cast without grips (seperate cast grips included)
The first 1/4 -1/2 of barrel with rifling.
Correct cut down 4" barrel with round sight
.45 Dummy rounds cast inside cylinder.

For future:
"Firing bapty version" with ramped front sight and gold medallion grips.
Moveable cylinder
Removeable dummy rounds to put in cylinder (hopefully I can figure a way to get it done in .455 and .45 cost effective).

Now I really don't know a price for this guy yet, so bare with me. But I think this will be happening! I will also ship to the US, as I think all you need is an orange tip.

More updates here soon!

rhboyd · Post by **rhboyd** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:46 am

Excellent for all!!!

Can't wait to see it all come together!

thanks, and please keep us posted!
-r!

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:39 pm

Alright people. So. Here's some info.

I will cast the cylinder seperately, and then fasten it in place in the gun. That way I don't have to think of anything to help movie it, etc etc. Too diffucult, maybe down the road. I will also insert dummy rounds into the cylinder or fired rounds, your choice.

There's another idea I'm toying with. A completely true to form rifled barrel. Not solid, but hollowed with rifling. That would require a few more peices. Obviously the barrel and frame need to be made speerate. Along with the sight being added on after. That's the only thing. IF there's a heck of a lot of intrest in it, I might just do it this way. The barrel will be screwed in, and fastened with glue/loctite/whatever works best. Then the sight will be press fit or I'll figure a good solid way to put it on. But that's as far as I'll go for now.

Any thoughts on the latter process are totally welcome! ####, comment on anything!

Also I'm leaning towards a task style resin. So a really hard, minimal shrinkage, solid resin. A little more durable than say smoothcast brand.

That should be it. The grips are on order, and I'm prototyping the realisitc barrel idea in the next few weeks. I hope to make this thing perfect. Although it's just a holster stuffer, I want everone to be satisified!

Sound good?

Arlington Beech · Post by **Arlington Beech** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:00 pm

Just let me know where and when to send the money...lol

looking forward to the S&W....and to the Webley as well

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:55 pm

geez KN, you've got me reaching for my wallet already

are you planning to do a lanyard loop. one of the refinements of artsee's design was to have the loop folded flush against the stock so that the resin piece would not break off easily.....sorry, i forgot to mention this, but i believe this was a separate resin cast as well.

man, i think if you'd go the whole 9 yards with this, it would be great to see a real working lanyard loop for her.

let us know how your progress goes. i've been pm'd more than once in regards to "looking for an indy gun here in canada". i'm sure you'll make some sales as it looks like you're doing some detailed refinements to what is currently available.

good luck sir,

G

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:13 pm

Indiana G wrote:geez KN, you've got me reaching for my wallet already

are you planning to do a lanyard loop. one of the refinements of artsee's design was to have the loop folded flush against the stock so that the resin piece would not break off easily.....sorry, i forgot to mention this, but i believe this was a separate resin cast as well.

man, i think if you'd go the whole 9 yards with this, it would be great to see a real working lanyard loop for her.

let us know how your progress goes. i've been pm'd more than once in regards to "looking for an indy gun here in canada". i'm sure you'll make some sales as it looks like you're doing some detailed refinements to what is currently available.

good luck sir,

G

The lanyard loop was always in there. What I want to do will depend on the plastic. That's why I want to use the task plastic. (Smooth on product for hi stress work). I want to make the actual loop out of metal bar, that I'll match up perfectly to the real thing. (Size wise, width etc).

So far I think I've got my process down for creating a rifled barrel with the barrel being made at the same time as receiver to make it one more solid peice. I'll put the theories in practice as soon as I get a little time. With some updates along the way.

This might turn out to be one of the most fun projects yet!!

rhboyd · Post by **rhboyd** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:09 pm

I love the enthusiasm!!! It can only lead to an outstanding result!!!

I'm with ya, buddy!!!
-r!

Oklahoma Jones · Post by **Oklahoma Jones** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:31 pm

Do you have an idea as to what you will be charging for your replica, KN?

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:51 pm

Oklahoma Jones wrote:Do you have an idea as to what you will be charging for your replica, KN?

Hi,
I really don't know as of yet. I want to keep it inexpensive but top quality. I'm guessing under $100. Actually more than likely. I was hoping for around the $50 range. Don't quote me. Once I do a protoype I can see how much work is going into it and how much resin is needed and the cost. I was also thinking of a DIY version too.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:36 pm

KingNothing wrote:
Oklahoma Jones wrote:Do you have an idea as to what you will be charging for your replica, KN?
Hi,
I really don't know as of yet. I want to keep it inexpensive but top quality. I'm guessing under $100. Actually more than likely. I was hoping for around the $50 range. Don't quote me. Once I do a protoype I can see how much work is going into it and how much resin is needed and the cost. I was also thinking of a DIY version too.

a DIY version? cool....you can send the resin and the real gun to suite 1100, 401.........when i'm done casting your gun, i'll be sure to send it back.....unless i forget your address

at that price KN, consider me one of your customers

rhboyd · Post by **rhboyd** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:05 am

All sounds great... $50 - 100 is great!!!!

Keep it going!
-r!

indiana lurch · Post by **indiana lurch** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:47 pm

Wow

Just found this thread......can't wait, can't wait, can't wait. I think you've got the attention of most if not all of the Canadians on this site, we're all waiting with baited breath.

Except for me who stopped breath............

Indiana lurch

rhboyd · Post by **rhboyd** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:53 pm

Don't forget to breathe, Lurch... this stuff ain't HALF as fun if you're dead!!!

stick around!!!

-r!

indiana lurch · Post by **indiana lurch** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:39 pm

Wooooo....is it still Sunday ?

must of passed out.

Ok, must remember to keep breathing from now on

Breath in, breath out, breath in, breath in...darn it

Indiana lurch

Snakewhip_Sable · Post by **Snakewhip_Sable** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:53 pm

I'm gonna need one of those, King. My other rail has been trapped in Montana for way too long and the cell phone just doesn't fill up a holster right.

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:53 pm

Alright well things are now in motion. I haven't received the new grips yet but I'm building up the mold. I never showed a pic for everyone... Here it is:

So yeah I had to remove the rear sight and whatnot, but you get the picture. Mmmmmmmm firearms...

Anyways I'm just finishing up making the mold for this guy. I want to be super careful because I want the cast to come out great. And yes the swing arm and cylinder are seperate. Along with the grips.

Couple weeks and a prototype should be ready!

rhboyd · Post by **rhboyd** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:59 pm

mommina hommina!!!!!

god speed!!!
-r!

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:59 am

Croft

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:52 am

King,
I am also in on this project. It sounds VERY exciting!!!!
Let us know so we can start flooding you with orders too!!!

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:07 pm

Hahaha in due time. A bit of updates I guess for now...

I will post pictures in a couple hours of a metal finish I did on a plastic replica to get you an idea of paint job.

Also the price might bump up a little. This reason is because I want to incorporate real gun parts. Just a few. I have to find a source for two of them. I have it for one peice for sure. Small but peices that will help ease the casting process. Never hurts either. They're not a lot of money, BUT to get an idea the little "yoke screw" is $5.47. And it's tiny. Like auto parts, expensive.

Also I might have to ask for help with the grips, I realized the ones I ordered are for a .32 long revolver which is an I frame. (TINY). So hopefully they fit or otherwise I'm looking. I can't seem to find the Stembridge style though, I've sourced the Bapty type though.

As of now the receiver is being cleaned thouroughly to ease casting. Next is preparing the mold box and getting ready to pour silicone. I want to get this done fairly soon. Before Christmas!

One other thing, I was hoping to get about a run of 10 to start off with to offset costs, so I'll start a list in a bit. But that's for later.

This project is FUN!

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:26 pm

kn, put me on the list for sure....just let me know how much and where to send the cheque

indiana lurch · Post by **indiana lurch** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:31 pm

You can me to the list as well kn.......can't wait can't wait can't wait

IL

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:41 pm

Croft

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:15 am

Hey Croft, the grips are similar, they need to have the diamond checkered pattern though. http://www.indygear.com/gear/guns.shtml

But thanks for the offer, I would have jumped all over that!

Here are the painting pics. It looks real sloppy and bad for some reason, it looks tons better in person I swear! lol. I have to learn to take better pictures. Of course I made this with more of a brass hue, but the gun will obviously be more blued/silver. No brass. lol.

The price won't be substantial for adding the real steel parts, it's just a bit more because the one screw is $5.47, and I think one is $13, and the other $9. BUT I won't mention them until I get a source. No need to get hopes up.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:24 am

KN,

just my 2 cents but, i think a departure from artsee's "weathered" replica would be nice.....a nice shiney, freshley blued sidearm. indy's revolver looks shiney when he gave it to beloq, when he unwrapped it from the cloth in his house, when he pulled it out in cairo and when it was lying on the sand by the tire of the flying wing.....by shiney, i mean that the blueing hasn't worn off yet....still looks like a half decent used pistol.

but heck, if you go the artsee route, i'll still pick one up.

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:34 am

Indiana G... noted. I didn't know artsee did a weathered version. I actually haven't seen it! I haven't talked to that guy forever either.

But yeah a fresh blued version could be done. Actually might be a bit easier. I haven't tried it yet, but will soon. I just saw then had a nice gun blue colour... Heck if not you guys can always paint your own.

lol.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:53 am

this is artsee's baby. currently the best indy prop revolver. quite difficult to obtain in the great white north

as you can see, artsee goes for a very weathered look....kinda what the revolver would look like now if it were actually used in 1936. i've seen alot of used guns where the blueing is almost gone and artsee does an excellent job in recreating this with his painting. i'm interested in actually having indy's gun as if it fell out of his holster into mine....back in 1981...er....1936....er...now i'm getting confused.....need to go load up the flux capacitor on the delorian and take a trip to straighten this out

regardless of which route you choose to take, i'm just happy that someone so close is partaking in this project.....you're only 3 hours away from me

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:16 am

Just a quick post, can anyone help in finding the correct grips?? The ones I had a line on, in that site I posted, are for a .32 long 1917, which is different, and they're way to small. There's one on eBay right now, but it's on the right side. So arg. They need to be for an N frame revolver. If anyone can help I'll make it worth your while!!

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:16 pm

Ok just another quick update. I have secured a source for most of the real steel parts so far.
Right now it's just a couple screws, and the lanyard swivel. So that means that the lanyard will be fully operational.

And it shouldn't wear out the paint, as the paint I'm using is duracoat and it's supposed to be strong.

The way the cylinder will be attached will be a way where there is little to no glue, and should be quite secure.

I'm experimenting with different resins right now, and hopefully the proto will be next week.

rhboyd · Post by **rhboyd** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:37 pm

AWE - - - SOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds perfect-o!!!!!!!!!
-r!

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:59 pm

I'm very excited to see the progress.

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:44 pm

Okay. So the molds are being poured now. Finally. Prototype hopefully this weekend if not mid next week.

I have one last dilema. Plastic. I want to use a strong durable plastic. NOW. Smooth on makes an aluminum filled plastic that's ultra strong, and can be machined etc. The only downside is it takes 16 hours to demold, as opposed to the 15 minutes of the first plastic that I was thinking of using. I will be picking a sample of this aluminum stuff soon to see if there's any real sheen and weight difference. The advantage of that is when the gun is cast in that colour, and a topcoat of a real Duracoat firearm finish is applied, it makes for one heck of a sturdy (for lack of a better word) paint job. And then I'll weather a bit, but the buyer can choose to make it ultra worn or slightly used. Which is an awesome option I think. PLUS if you drop it on a real hard surface or scratch it, there's no worries, as the resin will show a silver colour throughout. Now I don't know how close it will be to a steel colour, but hopefully close. I don't think there is a big cost difference either.

So yeah the next update will be of a cast gun.

Here's the features:
Not including dummy rounds and moon clips, the revolver has 6 peices.
It will be finished in Duracoats gun blue paint which is durable and looks great.
The way the cylinder, yoke, extractor rod etc are attached will be very little glue, and how the real thing is held on, but with mods so it won't swing open.
There will be 6 real dummy rounds. Not cast in the cylinder but added after.
The sight has been made to specs referenced in the general section.
Barrel is cut down to exactly where it was in filming (the stamp on the barrel served as an excellent reference).
Real lanyard swivel.

So there I think that's it. But I hope that get's everyone interested.

Now for the money part. I was really hoping to get this around the $50 range, but with costs and time to make each pistol, it's getting a bit more expensive. So if the price is higher I must justify that by making the gun top notch, instead of half assing it. I think the price will be around $110. Mostly because of the work and cost of this thing. So I'll be looking at selling the first 10 guns at that with an increase after possibly. This is so I can order enough lanyard swivel and other parts (screws etc), before the supplier runs out. So I'll start a list after the prototype is done.

I know this is just a gun, but I think it'd be awesome for there to be a real detailed replica for those who can't (or don't want) to own the real thing, or a good display peice, that's durable and looks good. Yeah I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so sorry for taking so long making it.

Cool? I'll shut up now.

Arlington Beech · Post by **Arlington Beech** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:58 pm

I want one!! lol

Please put me on that list as soon as its up, the price sounds fine to me!

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:15 pm

KN, you could also try a couple of casts in cold cast aluminium, see how that turns out.

There are two basic methods for doing this - the first is to coat the inside of the mold with powdered metal then infill with resin; the second is to make a 60/50 metal powder/resin mix and pour that straight into the mold. Depending on the type of resin used (I have used a polyester based resin in this process and it worked fine) the demold time can be reduced to 2-3 hours. The resulting piece can then be cleaned up with wire wool, to produce an excellent metallic surface which replicates the look of much more costly foundry casting.

Cool project, looking forward to see what you come up with!

Regards

Al

rhboyd · Post by **rhboyd** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:28 pm

cool cool COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how exciting!!!!
-r!

djd · Post by **djd** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:38 am

Sounds great. Please add me to your list of buyers!

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:24 pm

ob1al, I considered this, but the cost of the metal powder is quite large. Especially in a 60/50 mix. Maybe I'll try a tril one to see the results and go from there.

I did just find out I can use an accelerator for the resin that'd take demold time to 1 hour. With little side effects. Maybe a bit more shrinkage, but nothing noticable!

More to come!

rhboyd · Post by **rhboyd** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:22 pm

I'd still be VERY happy with a straight old resin cast... it'd be FUN to build too!!!

thanks for all this...
-r!

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:57 pm

Lol indeed. Well I picked up the sample of the aluminum stuff, and it's just a basic grey colour. And for the added cost, and crappy mix ratio (26:100 by weight), I'll stick with good ol resin. Who know maybe experiment with some cold casting. We'll see...