Lambtouch or HH or Novapelle ??????

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:13 pm

I am considering getting a custom Wested and am torn between which hide I should get...

I have read a lot of good things about the HH jackets, but I haven't heard much about the lambtouch cowhide jackets other than they are tougher than lamb, but still drape well. Anyone own both?

And what the heck is Novapelle? anyone have good pics of it?

Also, which one has the most accurate color?

Anyone out there have a list of pros and cons for me?????

Thanks!

C3

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:17 pm

orb has both of them......cept i haven't seen him around in a while. perhaps fire him a PM?

if you are going with a wested, perhaps hold off until peter lets us know what kind of new funky hides he has found on his trip to italy. i'm still waiting on more novapelle but there were talks that there is a dark brown veg tanned lamb coming in as well. just to let you know....i don't want you firing off an order on a HH and then find out the next day that wested brought in 10,000 m of the original raiders lambskin in

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:28 pm

I can definitely recommend the horsehide if you want a jacket that looks the part and will take a beating. It's a tough leather that is soft enough to drape well and has a very interesting texture that starts looking good even after a week or two of wear. It feels heavy to pick up, but not heavy to wear.
I haven't owned a lambtouch ( I was also considering it for my jacket) but my understanding is that it's VERY thin - thinner even than the lambskin.
Maybe Orb can shed more light on the matter as he owns both.

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:31 pm

Does anyone know what kind of horses are used to produce hh? Are they bred specially or are they at the end of their life?

Dr.Seuss · Post by **Dr.Seuss** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:54 pm

I only own the HH. With naught to compare it to, take my comment for its intrinsic value.

However, the HH feels incredible. Substantial, tough feeling and with a nice "hand" or drape, that gets better each day.

Reference point: my jacket is only seven months young.

Sincerely,

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:06 pm

Does anyone know what kind of horses are used to produce hh? Are they bred specially or are they at the end of their life?

I suggest that any ethical queries of this nature should be put to the prospective manufacturer directly, after which an informed decision on whether to support, or decline to support, a particular hide on an ethical basis can then be made.

That said, I don't think we should enter into a debate about this subject here. There are many websites and forums 'out there' relating directly to this subject, via which any interested parties can gain further information on these issues.

Regards

Al

St. Dumas · Post by **St. Dumas** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:27 pm

Satipo wrote:Does anyone know what kind of horses are used to produce hh? Are they bred specially or are they at the end of their life?

I'm pretty sure these are hides from horses at the end of their life. My understanding is that these are hides that would be either wasted or used for industrial purposes.

SD

Cloud Jones · Post by **Cloud Jones** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:36 pm

Indiana G wrote:orb has both of them......cept i haven't seen him around in a while. perhaps fire him a PM?

if you are going with a wested, perhaps hold off until peter lets us know what kind of new funky hides he has found on his trip to italy. i'm still waiting on more novapelle but there were talks that there is a dark brown veg tanned lamb coming in as well. just to let you know....i don't want you firing off an order on a HH and then find out the next day that wested brought in 10,000 m of the original raiders lambskin in

Wish I had known that a few weeks ago

.

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:38 am

_ wrote:And the stupid answer is, "of course they are at the end of their lives..." Sorry - too easy...

Nice one, _!

Ethics aside, does the age of the animal play a part in the quality of its hide? I would have thought that younger horses would produce stronger, more flexible hides than those that are old and, dare I say it again, at the end of their lives. That would be the case with humans, right?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:16 am

Somewhere, in an alternate universe, horses are having the same discussion now.

"I would have thought that younger humans would produce stronger, more flexible hides than those that are old and, dare I say it again, at the end of their lives."

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:01 am

I think all of those really old and wonderfully grainy horsehide jackets came from work horses that had lives long hard lives. Give me that, forget the young horse leather - if that is the case. I personally think Westeds horse is a bit too smooth, but maybe it's just that there still isn't alot of pictures of the HH yet. I prefer it jerky though (not the kind you eat

)

Doug C

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:43 pm

_

What do you do for a living??? You seem to get in on many cool projects!

C3

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:46 pm

_

What do you do for a living??? You seem to get in on many cool projects!

He's a 'hit man', but don't tell him I told you!

8-[

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:50 pm

..that's what I said....a 'hit man'.

Regards! Michaelson

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:51 pm

_

You live in Indy?!?!?!? I live up in Muncie... Did you go to the colts game last weekend? My band played the pre-game party on the pan-am plaza! Big fun!!!!
I actually wore my cowhide us wings jacket, but took it off while playing. I'm a bass player in a funk/horn band and the cow jacket was a bit too hot!

C3

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:00 pm

I have a lambs touch jacket from vendor XX (non Indy). Its nice, soft and somewhat light weight, and I have the Wested HH. I would go HH all the way. The stuff Peter has is really versatile. Its very strong, tough, but gets softer the more you wear it. After a while, the leather gets grainy and gets creases where you bend and flex....its got lots of character. And like someone said, its heavy, but doesn't feel heavy to wear it.

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:02 am

_

An Indy Indy summit sounds good... I believe there are many Hoosiers on the forum. We could meet up at St. Elmo's down town for some shrimp cocktail and a brewski!

C3

PETER · Post by **PETER** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:41 pm

Indiana G, Novapelle is in stock now. In the dark brown and I have had it made in a colour similar to our existing pre distressed.
Cheers
Peter

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:15 pm

thanks for the update mr. botwright, sir

please have gemma confirm with me via e-mail if she had received my construction package. i will finalize the details with her.

much regards,

G

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:10 pm

coronado3 wrote:...And what the heck is Novapelle? anyone have good pics of it?

Kt Templar wrote:I've got [a jacket] in a new darker predistressed cowhide... Peter had a name for the leather, something Italian.

PETER wrote:The name of the skin is Novapelle and it what I am now using as the new predistressed as it has a soft handle and mat finish with that slighty worn look.

viewtopic.php?t=23856

Btw, it's the same kind of leather used in Wested's proposed Indy IV prototype.

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:00 am

I really like the look of it in this close-up photo, but would love to see an entire jacket in it! KT, got any full jacket pics?

C3

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:08 am

It's in the link I provided...

Panama Tom Jr. · Post by **Panama Tom Jr.** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:39 am

How does the HH compare to Lamb on the warmth side of the equation? Living in Florida the Lamb is just right for the little bit of cool weather we do get. While I like the idea of the HH’s toughness, if it is a substantially warmer jacket it would probably not be as comfortable an option for us Southern boys…

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:48 am

Panama Tom Jr. wrote:How does the HH compare to Lamb on the warmth side of the equation? Living in Florida the Lamb is just right for the little bit of cool weather we do get. While I like the idea of the HH’s toughness, if it is a substantially warmer jacket it would probably not be as comfortable an option for us Southern boys…

In freezing weather, you really wouldn't notice that big of a difference between lamb and horsehide. Although the horsehide has a leg up on lamb in that regard, you'd still need a sweater for any kind of real protection.

However, in warm weather, that thickness really adds up. Since the chrome-tanned lamb (aka the 'standard' lamb) of Wested at least is very, very thin and light, it would be like wearing a windbreaker, whereas wearing a horsehide, while still relatively thin with regards to other horsehides, is still thicker and much heavier than a lamb, which makes you feel like you're wearing a heavy-wool sports coat.

At least that's the way I see it

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:48 pm

Let me put it this way....I wear my Wested HH from about 45F to 70F. Any warmer or colder and its uncomfortable for me. I usually wear a long sleeve button down shirt or longsleeve T on the colder end, and a short sleeve T when its warmer. Sure I can suff a hooded sweatshirt under it and go colder, but with that thin cotton lining on its own, its just not going to insulate that well. Above 70F, it gets hot real quick if you do anything physical. You may hear different from people who have worn their jacket in subfreezing temps or in summertime heat, but its just not realistic without pushing your own limits or making wardrobe adjustments.

dr. tyree · Post by **dr. tyree** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:44 pm

I just revised my order; I should have my KT-style in two weeks, according to Peter. Revised LC Novapelle/pre-distressed cowhide, with underarm gussets. yeeha!

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:12 pm

Let me put it this way....I wear my Wested HH from about 45F to 70F.

all depends on how thick your blood is bjones. i wore my todd's standard lamb at 45F with a magnoli shirt and i was fine

for me, it's all in the lining. once the leather shell gets cold then it doesn't matter much what kind of hide it is as the lining is the deciding factor on how warm the jacket is after that. a leather jacket serves to be a second skin and to nullify the effects of cold wind. just my 2 cents. take it for what its worth.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:21 pm

you'll be plenty warm if you just set a local watering hole on fire

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:31 pm

Indiana G wrote:
Let me put it this way....I wear my Wested HH from about 45F to 70F.
all depends on how thick your blood is bjones. i wore my todd's standard lamb at 45F with a magnoli shirt and i was fine

for me, it's all in the lining. once the leather shell gets cold then it doesn't matter much what kind of hide it is as the lining is the deciding factor on how warm the jacket is after that. a leather jacket serves to be a second skin and to nullify the effects of cold wind. just my 2 cents. take it for what its worth.

Oh I agree...the lining is what keep you warm. And your exposure to the elements. I was at the Denver/Pittsburgh game in Denver a few weeks back and I would have froze to death in my Wested....sat 3 rows from the top of the stadium in blowing wind and snow....chose one of my Aero's for that excursion

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:45 pm

Yes, Wested indy jackets are not insulated, it's the lining then leather.

On a warm day you'll notice the lamb is coolest then novapele then horse then cowhide warmest.

For some reason on a cold day I found the horse to be not very insulating at all actually about the same as lamb. Then the NP then the Cow was better.

On a very cold day, ie low 30's none of them are adequate with a indyshirt for very long. Good enough to run to the car (if close) but you'll shiver if out for very long and not moving about.

YMMV!

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:14 pm

It will be interesting to see how Magnoli's Vintage Raider will help with the cold.

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:19 pm

If he offers the blanket wool lining, it would do quite well I'd say.

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:04 am

I agree...especially with our west coast winters where I am

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:21 pm

come on nick....that's not a canadian winter there in van.....come on over to calgary around late january my friend. you'll have to pack this kind of gear:

....but if you're going to manitoba around that time....heck you'll need to do the han solo - tauntaun trick to stay warm over there

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:40 pm

well then mr. _, lemme know the next time you are in town....i'll take you out to buchanan's for some really, really good steak. we can't just wear the hides and let the rest of the animal go to waste right?

that's a standing invitation, along with KT's sushi dinner, all you can drink jack daniels for mr. michaelson and an excursion to a local hockey rink with bink to see if anyone left their wallets in the dressing rooms

seriously though, if you're ever in cowtown and you love steak....you know who to call

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:52 pm

Whoo hooo surf AND turf on G!

KingNothing · Post by **KingNothing** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:17 pm

Yeah I'll crash that party G!!!

And _, when you're done in Calgary come up to Edmonton, and I'll show you a fantastic mall. lol.

DeWayne · Post by **DeWayne** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:10 pm

I stayed at the hotel in that mall for 4-5 days in '91. That's one big mall....

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:00 pm

I think I am going to go with the HH, but I was wondering about the thickness... Is the HH physically thicker than the Lamb ? is that why it weighs more?

Thanks for the info!

C3

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:24 pm

_ wrote:Yea - malls just don't appeal to me as an attraction. I gre up in Seattle, where you cannot swing a dead-spotted-owl without hitting a mall... Unless there is a big Tiffany comback tour, I try to avoid them...

I know if there is she won't go to the Tacoma mall, too many shootings

Maybe she'll just stick to the pike.

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:43 am

I think I am going to go with the HH, but I was wondering about the thickness... Is the HH physically thicker than the Lamb ? Is that why it weighs more?

Thanks for the info!

C3

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:50 am

coronado3 wrote:I think I am going to go with the HH, but I was wondering about the thickness... Is the HH physically thicker than the Lamb ? Is that why it weighs more?

Thanks for the info!

C3

It is thicker and seems denser, I have one example of each and the horsehide is much heavier, it is also somewhat stiffer. You'll definitely get a feeling that it's a much tougher leather.

BUT

The lambskin drapes much more like the film jacket for obvious reasons. Of the other heavier leathers available now (Cow/horse/NP) NP then horse than cow for drape. But the NP is a slightly unusual leather and more suited to the CS. IMO.

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:10 am

KT

Is the HH as stiff as goat?

C3

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:25 am

The one I have, no. It's lightly more flexible than the 2 goat jackets I've seen.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:56 am

The lambskin drapes much more like the film jacket for obvious reasons. Of the other heavier leathers available now (Cow/horse/NP) NP then horse than cow for drape. But the NP is a slightly unusual leather and more suited to the CS. IMO.

no kt...that's raiders leather all the way buddy......i'll prove it to you.....once wested gets my order.....should be any day now.....it's only been a month and a half in the mail........{crickets chirping}

Dr.Seuss · Post by **Dr.Seuss** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:09 pm

coronado3 wrote:I think I am going to go with the HH, but I was wondering about the thickness... Is the HH physically thicker than the Lamb ? * * *C3

Coro 3:

Not certain on the "thicker" (as in actual caliper measured), but the HH "feels" denser and "thicker," then lambskin pieces I have seen.

(For what that comment is worth.)

Sincerely,

dr. tyree · Post by **dr. tyree** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:49 pm

FWIW, my Novapelle LC just arrived tonight, and it is AWESOME.
This leather is amazing, beautiful draping and just the right slightly beat up look. Pics as soon as I get my hands on camera...