Both firearms were designed by John Browning, to me at a distance they can look very similiar.
Has anyone heard that the hp originally was chambered for 9X18, Not the 9x19 or the standard 9mm parabellum that you find the hp in today. I was told that once by a fairly good source, but can't find anything to back it up.
I thought Indy had a 1911 untill I got on the internet in the late 1990s and all the sites were saying it was a bhp.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ish%29.jpg
http://www.m1911.org/images/origgun.jpg
Browning or Colt? (No, that THAT again...)
Moderator: Cajunkraut
The scene in the raven where Indy reaches down, it appears he is scrambling to put his revolver back in its holster... then he comes up with the HP (he also had it out of seq. you can see the empty shell fly out during the time he was supposed to be using the S&W)
Indy did not have his MK 7 in that scene so he probably had the HP in his waist band or one of the cargo pockets (with his xtra mag) on his jacket.
Coronado
Indy did not have his MK 7 in that scene so he probably had the HP in his waist band or one of the cargo pockets (with his xtra mag) on his jacket.
Coronado
I know this is an old thread and all, but reading it made me think of something.
it seems to be sort of accepted that he was meant to have a 1911 in the raven shootout, but instead ended up with the browning for functionality reasons? ok, so even though maybe the spirit of indiana jones would have had a 1911, on screen he had an HP, which makes the HP his gun, regardless.
so what would the answer be if he had used a gun that wasn't even made yet? I'm not gun expert, so I can't offer an example, but maybe a gun that came out in 1940, but the production team didn't catch the mistake. or maybe it was a newer model of an older gun that looked similar. would you consider it right to have what he SHOULD have, or what's on screen, even if the timeline makes it impossible for the character to actually have the gun?
it seems to be sort of accepted that he was meant to have a 1911 in the raven shootout, but instead ended up with the browning for functionality reasons? ok, so even though maybe the spirit of indiana jones would have had a 1911, on screen he had an HP, which makes the HP his gun, regardless.
so what would the answer be if he had used a gun that wasn't even made yet? I'm not gun expert, so I can't offer an example, but maybe a gun that came out in 1940, but the production team didn't catch the mistake. or maybe it was a newer model of an older gun that looked similar. would you consider it right to have what he SHOULD have, or what's on screen, even if the timeline makes it impossible for the character to actually have the gun?
-
binkmeisterRick
- Stealer of Wallets
- Posts: 16926
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:22 pm
- Location: Chattering with these old bones
'it seems to be sort of accepted that he was meant to have a 1911 in the raven shootout, but instead ended up with the browning for functionality reasons'
I don't accept it and also think the question is being over-thought. It is what it is. They chose to have him use a HP so he did. Like already said, it's a 'comic-book' movie where anything can appear or happen, and does. BTW, the standard HP mag is not 14 rd, it's 13 rd. One in the chamber with a loaded mag gives you the 14 shot capacity. Yes, it is most unlikely that Indy would have had a HP in 1936, BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE. Some of the German guns shown were impossible since they had not been issued in 1936, as already stated. I also feel that the whole sequence with the auto-pistol was ridiculous since Indy never had a back-up gun at any other time before or after the sequence, and he was shown packing only the revolver for the trip. Also, having a HP stuck in your waistband or weighting down your shoulder bag in addition to the revolver in it's holster is not consistent with the MO of Indy anyway - travel light so you can run fast. A HP with two loaded mags is rather heavy and guns in the waistband tend to fall out under any level of activity. Bottom line, they stuck it in and that's how it is - it can't be justified or reconciled - it's a movie.
I don't accept it and also think the question is being over-thought. It is what it is. They chose to have him use a HP so he did. Like already said, it's a 'comic-book' movie where anything can appear or happen, and does. BTW, the standard HP mag is not 14 rd, it's 13 rd. One in the chamber with a loaded mag gives you the 14 shot capacity. Yes, it is most unlikely that Indy would have had a HP in 1936, BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE. Some of the German guns shown were impossible since they had not been issued in 1936, as already stated. I also feel that the whole sequence with the auto-pistol was ridiculous since Indy never had a back-up gun at any other time before or after the sequence, and he was shown packing only the revolver for the trip. Also, having a HP stuck in your waistband or weighting down your shoulder bag in addition to the revolver in it's holster is not consistent with the MO of Indy anyway - travel light so you can run fast. A HP with two loaded mags is rather heavy and guns in the waistband tend to fall out under any level of activity. Bottom line, they stuck it in and that's how it is - it can't be justified or reconciled - it's a movie.
-
Michaelson
- Knower of Things
- Posts: 44486
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:55 pm
- Location: Out here knowing stuff and things and wishing I were with the family at Universal Studios Orlando
Well, to add one more thing to this dissertation....the Browning HP is a Browning model P35....because it was introduced in 1935, so it was indeed available at the time of Raiders, 1936.
Just to clear up THAT misconception.
As to the functionality of the HP, they really should have stuck to the original idea of having a single pistol in Indy's arsonel....and that being EITHER a 1911 or an HP.
I honestly believe it was a continuity error from the get-go, as once he started the fire fight in the Raven bar with the Smith, it was realized half way through the scene by someone that he would run out of ammo in 6 rounds and would have NO time to reload, so an HP was shoved in Ford's hand.
And yes, it WAS due to 'functionality' as both scenes shot with Ford using the HP were done in Europe, and .45 ACP blanks just aren't that readily available in that film industry there.....but 9mm blanks are.
Regards! Michaelson
Just to clear up THAT misconception.
As to the functionality of the HP, they really should have stuck to the original idea of having a single pistol in Indy's arsonel....and that being EITHER a 1911 or an HP.
I honestly believe it was a continuity error from the get-go, as once he started the fire fight in the Raven bar with the Smith, it was realized half way through the scene by someone that he would run out of ammo in 6 rounds and would have NO time to reload, so an HP was shoved in Ford's hand.
And yes, it WAS due to 'functionality' as both scenes shot with Ford using the HP were done in Europe, and .45 ACP blanks just aren't that readily available in that film industry there.....but 9mm blanks are.
Regards! Michaelson
-
WeeMadHamish
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 428
- Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:32 am
- Location: Ledyard, CT
Actually... that's not quite accurate. The HP is again his sidearm of choice when he realizes that Katanga's boat has been stopped. Marion wakes up to see him checking the slide on the Browning, which he then tucks in his waistband before heading to the bridge.191145 wrote:I also feel that the whole sequence with the auto-pistol was ridiculous since Indy never had a back-up gun at any other time before or after the sequence, and he was shown packing only the revolver for the trip.
-
Michaelson
- Knower of Things
- Posts: 44486
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:55 pm
- Location: Out here knowing stuff and things and wishing I were with the family at Universal Studios Orlando
-
Canada Jones
- Professor of Archaeology
- Posts: 1105
- Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2003 12:29 pm
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
First, let me say this discussion is why I love COW. Where else are people talking about this? I found this thread very interesting.Michaelson wrote:Correct, which scene was shot off the coast of France....and once again requiring the need of 9mm blanks.
Regards! Michaelson
My comment though in response to your comment above Michaelson is I do not think Indy fires the gun on the boat so they could have used the 1911 if they wanted to. I am sure they were counting on the fact that most people would not notice the difference. I do think this might be the another case of "lets pick whatever is in the gun box".
I also liked your post about the HP being an after thought that came out of them realizing that Ford was going to run out of ammo quickly. I know the Germans used the 1935 once they overran the factories in Belgium so perhaps the gun was originally brought in for one of the villains to use. Oh and I am sure you know the other place in the world they were making the 1935 was Canada by the John Inglis Company (which now makes appliances...)
best
Canada
actually Dr Emmet Brown was supposed to drop off a mac 10 but Marty got the dates mixed up. 
The gun used by Indy in the conceptual art for Raiders looks like a HP rather than a 1911....ztmario wrote:I know this is an old thread and all, but reading it made me think of something.
it seems to be sort of accepted that he was meant to have a 1911 in the raven shootout, but instead ended up with the browning for functionality reasons?