Nathaniel's of Colorado, yeah Josh Bernsteins hat....

IndianaJames · Post by **IndianaJames** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:19 am

I searched and searched but found no posts even though I know there was some a while back. Did anyone ever wind up buying an Explorer from Nathaniels? Do you like it? Any pictures?

http://www.nathanielsofcolorado.com/ind ... 97768d55f0

thanks
I J

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:39 am

Product Information

Fur Type: 100% Beaver Fur

Brim: 3 inches
Crown: 4 inches

Price: $745.00

And he uses the same felt supplier as I do. 745 bucks for his pure beaver. Marc, we should have charged the production for KOTCS this price!! But as we both discussed, heck, we would have donated those hats just to have our hat on Indy's head.

I have always known I was practically giving my beaver hats away, something that a few here, "just never got it". But that is another story, and one I don't care to go into. But each time I would read a post that queried WHY the AB was so popular, I knew why they were(just go shopping) , and was stunned to find that my price for a pure beaver hat was not always recongized as the motivator.

Some folks just never 'got it" and still don't. But where else in the world could you buy a decent Indy fedora in pure beaver for 225 bucks? NO WHERE but here. I don't think some lurkers and even some members "get it" even today. The popularity of the AB is due to the bang for the buck. Sorry for the hijack, but when I looked at his prices, it just reminded me of something. It reminded "why" I started making hats. So we could own a top of the line hat at bargain basement pricing. I don't mind being lumped in with other hatters, but at least wait until I go up in price and actually make a buck on my hatmakng. Fedora

fedoralover · Post by **fedoralover** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:22 am

This is the hat you made for KD lightner. It is one of the finest gray fedora's I've ever seen. The price and the quality are why people will always be buying your hats Steve.

fedoralover

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:25 am

hmm...looks brown to me.

:junior: -IJ

Oklahoma Jones · Post by **Oklahoma Jones** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:37 am

OK,OK..........EVERYONE UNDER THE PLYMOUTH!!!!!!

Johnny Fedora · Post by **Johnny Fedora** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:00 pm

That is an awsome hat!

Thats it. I just added a another hat to the wish list. There's the IM/AB/HJ on the way, an AB Crystal Skull Fedora that I've got to order as soon as I can clear it with my personal appropriations committee (read wife), and an AB Grey Fedora. Must have, MUST HAVE ! So this is how people end up with sooooo many hats isn't it?

I was warned...

Johnny

Indiana Jess · Post by **Indiana Jess** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:22 pm

Fedora wrote:I have always known I was practically giving my beaver hats away, something that a few here, "just never got it".

You've spoiled us Fedora, for which I am entirely grateful.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:51 pm

You've spoiled us Fedora, for which I am entirely grateful.

Well, its a good bunch of folks to spoil if you know what I mean. It was just me doing my hobby, and my attempt at that time to provide you guys with what I was making and wearing, without going bankrupt in order to own a pure beaver hat. Back then, I was really put off by the prices being charged for quality hats, especially once I found out the markup was a few thousand per cent on these hats. Just did not seem right to me, at the time. I still see alot of greed in the hat business, with the pricing, but my attitude has toned down quite a bit. I still get irked when I see some hatters charging 1500 bucks for a hat that has 175 bucks of materials in them, but these guys live by the rule "if I price my hats high, they will be seen by the public as much better than the other, lower priced hats" I think this is pretty common though, not only in hats but other things as well. But, I sure don't have to like it.

If you want to take several trips to Europe each year, and vacation in the hot, popular spots, go into hatting. Then, buy yourself the factory machinery that can pump out a hundred hats a day, pay a couple of girls a low wage to do your sewing, and you can use the factory equipment to make your hats, as you sit and watch it do its job. You never put a single hat together, your hired help does. And then you advertise your hats as custom made, as this wording increases the price expoentially. And you price the hats with a huge markup, and the shuck and jive will make you rich. That in a nutshell is the custom hat business today.

There are a few exceptions, but they are rare.

Is there anything wrong with this? Probably not, as it is the American Way. But, it irks me personally.

For me, if I am gonna spend really big money on a hat, the hatter at least needs to make the hat himself, and not just count his money at the end of the day. You hear of such and such hatter being a Master Hatter, but what you don't know, is his skills are seldom used in the production of his hats. Once he became a master hatter, he hired folks off the street to run his production machines that USED to be only seen in the huge hat factories like the old Stetson company. When he learned to be a Master hatter, he learned to make hats by hand, if he trained under a real master hatter. Then he opens his shop, and has his employees make the hats using high volume equipment. I doubt that some even see the hats that leave the shop. There is nothing wrong or bad about a good factory hat. But high volume equipment was invented to generate loads of hats that could be priced at what folks could afford. When you use that method to make hats, but price them like production equipment was NOT used, I do have a problem with that. Especially when the hats are billed as handmade, or custom hats. And the master hatter probably never even looked at what his employees made.

Back in the days of the original Stetson company, the master hatters worked up in the front shop, and not the backshop. They used hand tools to create the special, custom hats that were sold along with the production hats. The master hatters actually worked!!! Today, you just tag your shop with the master hatter moniker,and you don't work. You don't even make hats. You spend your time flying here and there, smoking the cuban cigars, and drinking martinis. But, that is not the way it used to be. Granted, there are a few exceptions, as I can't paint the entire business with one broad brush. But the number of master hatters that actually make their own hats might be surprising. Ok, my treatise for the day.

Time to get to work. Fedora

IndianaJames · Post by **IndianaJames** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:23 pm

Glad I brought it up. $700 is lunacy for a felt hat....

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:10 pm

Glad I brought it up. $700 is lunacy for a felt hat....

it only seems like lunacy because we've been spoiled by steve for so long

beaver hats are in this price range up here in calgary for a cusotm hat (lot of cowboy hats up here and to use a beaver hat body for a fedora would have been over $1K). even the local shops' rabbit hat bodies cost more than steve's beaver hat. i too was shocked by the price difference but not as much as they were when they handled steve's hat and found steve's pricing on the AB website

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:42 am

i too was shocked by the price difference but not as much as they were when they handled steve's hat and found steve's pricing on the AB website

Now, that is funny!!! And a great way to start my day off.

I paint with broad strokes, as you guys know, and exagerrate to make a point, and I am sure my personal bitterness for the hat business shows through from time to time. And, I don't do it to sell hats, as I am going up in price too, just to cut down demand, and for no other reason. But I would never charge what many others charge. I would stop making hats before I would do it. I understand that a good hat is worth more money than a lower quality hat, mainly because they will last you a lifetime if you care for them. But to me personally, there is not a hat in the Universe that is worth a thousand bucks. And to charge more than that is a hangable offense in my book. But, my book is not "the book". My book is just one guy's opinion, and one of a penny pincher.

I don't mind paying the big bucks for certain things, like well made guitars, but comparing a well made guitar, to a well made hat is a invalid comparison, to me, personally. You get so much more in a well made guitar.........but perhaps this is just a personal opinion as well.

I have a Real McCoys A-2 that sold for close to 1500 bucks when bought from the factory. I bought it on ebay a few years ago for 800. It was brand new, and still had the waxy sheen of a new horsehide, plus the peculiar smell that horsehide emits. Now, I had always wanted to own one of these jackets, but refused to pay what the factory asked for them. But, I did not mind paying 800. Is the jacket worth 1500? No, not to me. Is it worth 800? Nope, not in my opinion, but then again, I would never sell it, because I really, really like it and could not replace it for what I paid for it. But back to the guitar. I have no qualms about paying 5 grand for a good guitar!!!! So, perhaps, we are all crazy, just in different areas. I am crazy for paying that much for a guitar, and someone else is nuts for paying a grand for a hat!! And I guess this is how guitar makers stay in business, as well as hatters.

When I talk about the pricing of hats, it is really just my opinion. The market determines what folks will pay for hats, and going by the number of hatters that have some really steep prices on their hats, the market does bear those prices. Otherwise, they would close up shop, or drop their prices. So, it appears that my opinion is moot, but, I already knew that!! Fedora

fedoralover · Post by **fedoralover** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:38 pm

Steve, when you raise your prices will that affect those of us on the waiting list or only those who order after the raise. The reason I'm asking is, right now I've got my Crystal Skull fedora fund set aside with the need funds to pay when my number comes up, but if the price will go up on us waiting I'll need to fill the jar a little fuller.

regards fedoralover

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:26 pm

Steve, I have no qualms laying down a couple grand on a good guitar, either, but I have qualms about not having the couple grand!

Kaleponi Craig · Post by **Kaleponi Craig** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:22 pm

Fedora, you've been soiling us for a long time with your high quality ABs and very low prices. I originally saw pure beaver hats at a store in San Francisco for around $1400. They are no better then yours. What am I talking about? They are not as good as yours! I'm sure he pays the same you do for the bodies.

I hope most people around here realize what a treasure you (and Marc) are and how lucky anyone is who owns an AB.

Thank you, Fedora, for your wonderful generosity and I"m so glad you got what you deserved...the REAL Indy lid now on Indy's real head!

Regards, KC

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:49 am

Steve, when you raise your prices will that affect those of us on the waiting list or only those who order after the raise.

Oh no! When I go up on my site, it will be for orders taken from there on out. With the number I have on order already, I probably should go ahead and go up, but I said I would wait, and so I will wait. I want to make sure everyone here has the opportuntiy to get the AB at the old price, because you guys are the ones that matter. But, I fully expect to be overwhelmed when the news goes world wide in the press releases, and I know I can't make hats at the old price for the whole world of new fans.

But, I just may be working on a factory hat that will look like the handmade hat, but at a low price, with practically no lead times involved. I said "may" as it is in the thinking stage. If this come to fruition, I will (and Marc too if he wants to do so) have a link on my site to take you to where you can buy them. I am very picky with the AB name, so as I said, this is still in the thinking/planning stage currently.

I think I would be an idiot not to take advantage of the ABs being the last film hat, and it would be nice to actually have a hat made for us, and priced in that sweet price range for the masses. And I might actually make some money on the factory hat too. I am not adverse to that!

I don't think Marc would mind me sending him money for his part of this deal.

He could just sit back, and reap the benefits of me working this deal up. And he would not have to even touch the hats. Marc has his other Indy items in development, but I have a big one in the works, possibly. I think we have paid our dues, and now perhaps we can actually make some bucks on these hats. While giving new customers a heck of a deal. fedora

Johnny Fedora · Post by **Johnny Fedora** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:23 pm

WOW, Congrats again Steve, and good luck with this new idea for a factory hat. That would truly be the best of both worlds...a hat for the masses, and a tool to give you a breather, while still turning out a wonderful hand made hat for us, and finally turning a profit. Awesome!

Johnny

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:03 pm

That would truly be the best of both worlds...a hat for the masses, and a tool to give you a breather, while still turning out a wonderful hand made hat for us, and finally turning a profit. Awesome!

Yes. Being one of the hatters for the last Indy fedora has its perks. You can actually make some money from the hobby now, and it also has to morph into a real business. I am in the process of doing that.

The factory hat is still in planning stages. They have the samples and now we shall have to wait and see if they can clone what we made for the film. Ribbon is being run, just for this project so I don't have to use that 10 buck a yard HJ stock, but the width and color will be right.

A blend will be used for the body, and the color is being matched, same with the sweatbands. If this can be pulled off, there will be a factory hat for sale, that can be a CS fedora, or Raiders fedora, with no lead times. How good is that? To be able to order a hat and get it fast, and that hat will have the AB name on the sweat........

If I can get a clone, I am going full steam ahead with this project, and have it in place when the film premiers. It will be a blended fur hat, but will be priced in the sweet price range so as to be affordable by anyone who wants a hat. And it will be very accurate to both Raiders and CS. That is, IF this very old company can provide me with what I want. The ball is in their park. I won't put the AB name on an inferiour hat. No way Hose.

If all of this works out the way I want it to, a vendor will be selling a rabbit Raiders/CS fedora, there will be a factory AB blend, and then Marc and I will make the handmade pure beaver versions as we supplied to the new film. The money we made from the film hats is gonna be sunk into the factory hats, as that is where the money is to be made. I only want to make a hundred hats a year, but I would love to sell an accurate hat that I did not have to make. Being the hatter for KOTCS allows me to do this. A perk, that will actually help the kingdom of Indy gear fans. And in the process, I will have the right block out there which should get rid of these other inferiour blocked Indy hats that others sell. I started out spending 7500 bucks in my quest for a decent Raiders fedora, got mad, and now have the chance to change the right blockshape out there from several sources. If it shuts down the other Indy hat makers, my revenge is complete. Perhaps only then, will the Indy hats actually look like Indy hats. That is what I am hoping for. A guy new to the hobby, is looking for an Indy fedora just like saw in the new film. He goes online to find 3 hats that actually match what he saw on screen, and what he saw in Raiders when he watched it. He won't have to go through what I did. He will be able to get it the first time! And he will have a choice of rabbit, a blend, or a handmade pure beaver, and all with have the right blockshape. Fedora

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:22 pm

Ok, back on the rails.....the question at hand was....

I searched and searched but found no posts even though I know there was some a while back. Did anyone ever wind up buying an Explorer from Nathaniels? Do you like it? Any pictures?

http://www.nathanielsofcolorado.com/ind ... 97768d55f0

thanks
I J

Regards! Michaelson

fedoralover · Post by **fedoralover** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:20 pm

Michaelson wrote:Ok, back on the rails.....the question at hand was....

I searched and searched but found no posts even though I know there was some a while back. Did anyone ever wind up buying an Explorer from Nathaniels? Do you like it? Any pictures?

http://www.nathanielsofcolorado.com/ind ... 97768d55f0

thanks
I J
Regards! Michaelson

Okay, I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is no.

fedoralover

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:28 pm

Me too, but when the AB discussion broke out, it probably scared off anyone who HAS had any experience with the company.

Regards! Michaelson

fedoralover · Post by **fedoralover** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:15 pm

So can we now get back OFF topic again?

I want to hear more about the factory KOTCS. Just kiddin, maybe it's time for a dedicated thread for that.

fedoralover

Johnny Fedora · Post by **Johnny Fedora** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:23 pm

No kidding...

Johnny

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:23 pm

Yep, a new thread is in order for that.

If no one has anything to say about the question in hand, we'll close this one down, and you can start a new thread on the topic Fedora posted.

If anyone DOES have something to post regarding the question, PM either bink or one of the adms, and this one will be reopened.

Regards! Michaelson

p.s. by the way, here's one of the posts that discussed his hat. It's there, you just have to look for it.

viewtopic.php?t=11414