ok, I don't know the protocol for asking this much about technique, because I didn't find much in a search, but until my books come.. I have a couple of questions for the whip gurus on here.
1. Everyone keeps talking about making a loop, but I have yet to see one. I even whip sidearm in front of myself and stare and it cracks, but I don't see a loop. since I'm getting good cracks, is it even possible that I'm somehow not making a loop?
2. How do you know if you're muscling it too much? I know I'm capable of getting a crack WITHOUT forcing it, because I start out each session by cracking as quietly as possible. but when I get going, sometimes I worry that I'm forcing it too much. I REALLY don't want to destroy this whip.
3. How much muscling can a whip take before you do serious damage to it?
4. When I do certain cracks, especially out in front of myself, I don't like the way the whip smacks down into the ground, so I've taken up a habit of loosening my grip on the handle right after the crack and letting the whip swing back behind me into position to be cracked again. is this a good idea? or should I maintain a firm grip the whole way through? which leads me to my next question..
5. sometimes the whip twists around in my hand after a forward crack.. side to side, as if it doesn't know quite how it wants to fall. is this normal, or is my technique somehow throwing off the natural balance of it?
I think that's it for now.. again, I don't know if I should just join a whip forum, but I know there's plenty of experts here. and I'm sure others would appreciate the info.
More bullwhip questions
Moderator: BullWhipBorton
-
Chewbacca Jones
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3878
- Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:17 am
- Location: Somewhere in the vicinity of Betelgeuse
- Contact:
The only question that I can really answer is about "muscling". That is, how to tell. The best guide to say if your muscling it is being aware of how it feels when you crack. If you are exerting yourself and using strength and weight to get the crack, you'll feel yourself doing it, like hammering a stubborn nail, but bigger. Just pay attention to what your body is doing. I just think to myself, the motions should feel smooth, graceful, and almost effortless. It it feels like I'm chopping wood, I'm muscling it.
I know it sounds vague and is not specific, but it's the advice that ultimately helped me do it right.
Good luck.
I know it sounds vague and is not specific, but it's the advice that ultimately helped me do it right.
Good luck.
compared to what I COULD do, I don't think I muscle it.. but I do use speed.. does going fast mean you muscle it?Chewbacca Jones wrote:The only question that I can really answer is about "muscling". That is, how to tell. The best guide to say if your muscling it is being aware of how it feels when you crack. If you are exerting yourself and using strength and weight to get the crack, you'll feel yourself doing it, like hammering a stubborn nail, but bigger. Just pay attention to what your body is doing. I just think to myself, the motions should feel smooth, graceful, and almost effortless. It it feels like I'm chopping wood, I'm muscling it.
I know it sounds vague and is not specific, but it's the advice that ultimately helped me do it right.
Good luck.
-
BendingOak
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 7011
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:21 pm
whips
After buyinh the new bullwhip book by andrew conway. Things became alot more clear for me. I then went and look at video of others whip cracking and that made a big improvement for me ( in just a matter of a day or two).
Re: whips
yeah, "the new bullwhip book" is on the way. the original book goes for $50.. I even saw a new copy for over $100. definitely can't understand THAT.BendingOak wrote:After buyinh the new bullwhip book by andrew conway. Things became alot more clear for me. I then went and look at video of others whip cracking and that made a big improvement for me ( in just a matter of a day or two).
-
BendingOak
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 7011
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:21 pm
hay
I found it very helpfull. I didn't pay neary 100 dollars for my copy more like 15. I got a ue copy off of amazon.
To answer your questions:
1) About the loop: If you're doing flick cracks, which is sounds like you are, you won't see a loop. Flicks produce a tight "U" shape rather than the loop. The "Forward Crack" and the Sidearm are "Flick" types of cracks.
If you're doing cracks such as the Circus Crack or the Overhead (Cattleman's) crack, then there is a "loop" produced.
Essentially the way I teach, there are only TWO basic cracks: Loop Crack and Flick Crack. Loops produce an "O" shape traveling down the length of the whip, Flicks produce a "U" shape. The cracks we know as forwards, sidearms, underhands, overheads, windshield wipers, etc. etc. are just those two cracks thrown in different planes.
It sounds like you've got your flicks down pat, which in my experience are the more difficult to do, so congrats on that! The loop cracks will come quickly once you have Andrew's book. ;-)
2) I think EVERYONE muscles at first, and it all honesty, it depends a great deal on the whip. Some whips require a little more force to get a good, clean crack out of them. Usually the longer and heavier the whip, the more you have to put a little more work into it. But how much you muscle it will depend a great deal on your particular whip and your setting. If you're indoors, you don't have to work as hard to get a good audible crack out of it, (and those around you will thank you for it.) Outdoors however, will usually take a bit more work to get a sharp report out of the whip, as there are fewer surfaces for the sound to bounce off of.
A good exercise to do to find a good force level is to start cracking as softly as you can, (either with a forward flick or a circus crack, I typically do this exercise with a circus crack.) Just enough to get an audible POP out of the whip, then increase your strength and volume gradually as you throw the same crack over and over, and once you have a LOUD BANG, start to back off again until the whip is barely popping. This goes a long way in teaching control.
Find a good strength level in there for you, and remember; The whip was DESIGNED and Engineered to crack. THAT is it's ONE purpose. Don't think of it as forcing a crack out of the whip so much as setting up a situation for the whip in your throw in which it can do what it was designed to do quickly and efficiently.
3) If you're going through lots of poppers and losing bits of your fall when the popper flies off, you're cracking too hard. Whips are designed to take some good abuse, but back off a bit. It will save you money from replacing falls and poppers, and time from digging around looking where that popper just went or just tying on another one.
4) You don't have to maintain a death grip on the whip. I know guys who crack whips with two fingers around the knot at the end of the handle. If the whip is smacking the ground with some force, it could be that you're crack is happening fairly close to the ground. Pick and object out in space ahead of you at about eye level, well out of the range of the whip. Try to get the whip to crack at that point.
Another way of doing this is when you extend your arm while throwing the whip, but DO NOT lower your arm below shoulder level until AFTER the whip cracks, THEN follow through to set up for the next crack. Keep the hand pointed straight out in front of you. When you hear the whip go BANG, THEN lower your arm.
These two techniques will also prime you to start target cutting. ;-)
5) I don't quite know how to address your last question. I'm having a hard time visualizing what you're talking about. Are you saying that as the whip cracks, the whip is not coming down straight and is travelling across your body, (towards the opposite foot/hip as the hand holding the whip?)
If this is the case, stand right beside a wall, (preferably wood or smooth painted concrete, as concrete and rough cinder block can chew up your whip,) and throw your forward cracks. Try to keep the whip parallel to the wall. This can help condition you to keep the whip moving in STRAIGHT lines, (most whip instructors refer to this as imagining yourself inside a box or standing in the middle of railroad tracks. This actually simulates it.)
This builds good cracking technique, but if the whip is cracking and crossing your body, this is a valuable cracking style as well that allows you to change the plane that the whip is travelling in, allowing you to do multiple cracks and combinations. So, IF this is what you are describing, practice both. It will help you in the long run.
All the best, happy cracking, and pardon me if this reads slightly incoherent. Allergy medication...WHEE!
-The Other Dan
1) About the loop: If you're doing flick cracks, which is sounds like you are, you won't see a loop. Flicks produce a tight "U" shape rather than the loop. The "Forward Crack" and the Sidearm are "Flick" types of cracks.
If you're doing cracks such as the Circus Crack or the Overhead (Cattleman's) crack, then there is a "loop" produced.
Essentially the way I teach, there are only TWO basic cracks: Loop Crack and Flick Crack. Loops produce an "O" shape traveling down the length of the whip, Flicks produce a "U" shape. The cracks we know as forwards, sidearms, underhands, overheads, windshield wipers, etc. etc. are just those two cracks thrown in different planes.
It sounds like you've got your flicks down pat, which in my experience are the more difficult to do, so congrats on that! The loop cracks will come quickly once you have Andrew's book. ;-)
2) I think EVERYONE muscles at first, and it all honesty, it depends a great deal on the whip. Some whips require a little more force to get a good, clean crack out of them. Usually the longer and heavier the whip, the more you have to put a little more work into it. But how much you muscle it will depend a great deal on your particular whip and your setting. If you're indoors, you don't have to work as hard to get a good audible crack out of it, (and those around you will thank you for it.) Outdoors however, will usually take a bit more work to get a sharp report out of the whip, as there are fewer surfaces for the sound to bounce off of.
A good exercise to do to find a good force level is to start cracking as softly as you can, (either with a forward flick or a circus crack, I typically do this exercise with a circus crack.) Just enough to get an audible POP out of the whip, then increase your strength and volume gradually as you throw the same crack over and over, and once you have a LOUD BANG, start to back off again until the whip is barely popping. This goes a long way in teaching control.
Find a good strength level in there for you, and remember; The whip was DESIGNED and Engineered to crack. THAT is it's ONE purpose. Don't think of it as forcing a crack out of the whip so much as setting up a situation for the whip in your throw in which it can do what it was designed to do quickly and efficiently.
3) If you're going through lots of poppers and losing bits of your fall when the popper flies off, you're cracking too hard. Whips are designed to take some good abuse, but back off a bit. It will save you money from replacing falls and poppers, and time from digging around looking where that popper just went or just tying on another one.
4) You don't have to maintain a death grip on the whip. I know guys who crack whips with two fingers around the knot at the end of the handle. If the whip is smacking the ground with some force, it could be that you're crack is happening fairly close to the ground. Pick and object out in space ahead of you at about eye level, well out of the range of the whip. Try to get the whip to crack at that point.
Another way of doing this is when you extend your arm while throwing the whip, but DO NOT lower your arm below shoulder level until AFTER the whip cracks, THEN follow through to set up for the next crack. Keep the hand pointed straight out in front of you. When you hear the whip go BANG, THEN lower your arm.
These two techniques will also prime you to start target cutting. ;-)
5) I don't quite know how to address your last question. I'm having a hard time visualizing what you're talking about. Are you saying that as the whip cracks, the whip is not coming down straight and is travelling across your body, (towards the opposite foot/hip as the hand holding the whip?)
If this is the case, stand right beside a wall, (preferably wood or smooth painted concrete, as concrete and rough cinder block can chew up your whip,) and throw your forward cracks. Try to keep the whip parallel to the wall. This can help condition you to keep the whip moving in STRAIGHT lines, (most whip instructors refer to this as imagining yourself inside a box or standing in the middle of railroad tracks. This actually simulates it.)
This builds good cracking technique, but if the whip is cracking and crossing your body, this is a valuable cracking style as well that allows you to change the plane that the whip is travelling in, allowing you to do multiple cracks and combinations. So, IF this is what you are describing, practice both. It will help you in the long run.
All the best, happy cracking, and pardon me if this reads slightly incoherent. Allergy medication...WHEE!
-The Other Dan
wow, that's a ton of awesome information.
and YES.. I am doing flick cracks. I watch the whip begin to form a U, and I hold it until the U seems just about to close together, and that's when i follow through with the crack, and it works well. but everything I've read online only talks about forming a loop, and getting a loop to travel down the whip.. I thought somehow I was cheating, and putting undue stress on the whip.
I can get the circus crack and form the loop, I think.. for some reason the whip is cracking behind me though, before I finish my follow through. or at least that's what it sounds like. I can't wait for that book to come so I can **** in some more info. I want to hurry up and use the cowhide whip to get the kinks out of my form so I can move on to a roo one.
as far as the whip twisting, it stopped happening recently.. but I don't know, I just get a guilty feeling whenever I get a loud crack out of the whip, as if I hurt it somehow.
Thanks again for the help.
and YES.. I am doing flick cracks. I watch the whip begin to form a U, and I hold it until the U seems just about to close together, and that's when i follow through with the crack, and it works well. but everything I've read online only talks about forming a loop, and getting a loop to travel down the whip.. I thought somehow I was cheating, and putting undue stress on the whip.
I can get the circus crack and form the loop, I think.. for some reason the whip is cracking behind me though, before I finish my follow through. or at least that's what it sounds like. I can't wait for that book to come so I can **** in some more info. I want to hurry up and use the cowhide whip to get the kinks out of my form so I can move on to a roo one.
as far as the whip twisting, it stopped happening recently.. but I don't know, I just get a guilty feeling whenever I get a loud crack out of the whip, as if I hurt it somehow.
Thanks again for the help.
No problem. That's what I'm here for. ;-)
As far as "Forming the loop goes, in most situations, people BEGIN learning with the circus crack, as it's easy to start with that one, and build the person's confidence. Flick cracks tend to take a little longer to get down pat, (took me AGES to get the sidearm and forward.) So you're WAY ahead of the game.
The "Whip cracks behind you" thing with the circus is quite common when trying to get the Circus crack down. You need to work on making the raising and lowering of your arm a smooth motion. The problem is in reversing the motion of the whip. This is essentially what you're doing to get the loop to happen. Thing is, unless you're nice and smooth on the "load phase" of the whip, it will crack behind you instead, so keep the throw nice and slow and fluid.
The whip needs to stretch out behind you. You're essentially stretching it out straight behind, and then "pushing" it forward so it cracks 180 degrees from where it had stretched out, inscribing a sort of half circle.
Another thing to try is most of the time people want to raise their arm slow, and then when they throw the whip, do that fast. Instead, try it the other way. Raise it fast, and let it stretch out behind, and then throw in in a slow, steady, fluid movement. That should form a good loop that will tighten as it rolls down the whip, and then makes a satisfying BANG.
A couple more things to consider. Most people if they don't get the whip to crack, try again HARDER. Try to force it. If you find this happen. Stop, slow down, swing the whip a couple times, but don't try to make it crack, just feel and see how it's moving. Go back, and read Andrew's descriptions of the crack, and try to figure out what you're doing wrong.
I have the first edition of the book, not the new one, (but I don't think much has changed in the way he talks about the anatomy of each crack.) After each "how to" description, Andrew has a "What might have gone wrong" section for each that can really help you troubleshoot your technique.
Good luck, and happy cracking!
-Dan
As far as "Forming the loop goes, in most situations, people BEGIN learning with the circus crack, as it's easy to start with that one, and build the person's confidence. Flick cracks tend to take a little longer to get down pat, (took me AGES to get the sidearm and forward.) So you're WAY ahead of the game.
The "Whip cracks behind you" thing with the circus is quite common when trying to get the Circus crack down. You need to work on making the raising and lowering of your arm a smooth motion. The problem is in reversing the motion of the whip. This is essentially what you're doing to get the loop to happen. Thing is, unless you're nice and smooth on the "load phase" of the whip, it will crack behind you instead, so keep the throw nice and slow and fluid.
The whip needs to stretch out behind you. You're essentially stretching it out straight behind, and then "pushing" it forward so it cracks 180 degrees from where it had stretched out, inscribing a sort of half circle.
Another thing to try is most of the time people want to raise their arm slow, and then when they throw the whip, do that fast. Instead, try it the other way. Raise it fast, and let it stretch out behind, and then throw in in a slow, steady, fluid movement. That should form a good loop that will tighten as it rolls down the whip, and then makes a satisfying BANG.
A couple more things to consider. Most people if they don't get the whip to crack, try again HARDER. Try to force it. If you find this happen. Stop, slow down, swing the whip a couple times, but don't try to make it crack, just feel and see how it's moving. Go back, and read Andrew's descriptions of the crack, and try to figure out what you're doing wrong.
I have the first edition of the book, not the new one, (but I don't think much has changed in the way he talks about the anatomy of each crack.) After each "how to" description, Andrew has a "What might have gone wrong" section for each that can really help you troubleshoot your technique.
Good luck, and happy cracking!
-Dan
-
bernie47
- Vendor
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 8:12 am
- Location: In the workshop making whips.Western Creek Tasmania Australia
- Contact:
If you've got the time just have quick look at this video on Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnUQEYFt51o and there are a couple of videos showing how to tie your cracker on and how to change your fall if you have to as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrvJ54Zv ... er&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1xY7v4r ... er&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV26uP0j ... er&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhjFBBz2 ... 0bullwhips
Kind Regards
Bernie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrvJ54Zv ... er&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1xY7v4r ... er&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV26uP0j ... er&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhjFBBz2 ... 0bullwhips
Kind Regards
Bernie
-
Indiana Snipes
- Laboratory Technician
- Posts: 128
- Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:44 pm
- Contact:
Cool. Now how do I whip swing across gulley's and whip weapon's out of people's hands?bernie47 wrote:If you've got the time just have quick look at this video on Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnUQEYFt51o and there are a couple of videos showing how to tie your cracker on and how to change your fall if you have to as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrvJ54Zv ... er&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1xY7v4r ... er&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV26uP0j ... er&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhjFBBz2 ... 0bullwhips
Kind Regards
Bernie
