What to get -- Raiders HH or LC HH from wested?

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:59 am

Just putting it out there - I am considering another jacket - in HH - but am torn between another Raiders, or a LC... I am not thinking of anything special to modify, but would love some input as to the pros and cons of these two from Wested. I love my lamb Raiders, but am not sure where to go with my second jacket. All input woud be appreciated.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:06 am

I'd get the LC if I were you, since the LC jacket (as portrayed on film) looks to be a thicker jacket, whereas the jacket used in Raiders was a very thin lamb jacket. So it would make more sense to get a thicker hide for a thicker jacket.

Also, I personally am a big fan of the press-studs on the LC jacket.

Btw, I don't know if you use your pockets often or not, but you ought to consider getting smaller pockets. IMO, Wested's oversized pockets just look wrong.

Hope this helps!

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:53 am

What size were the original pockets? I never noticed this before, but it sounds like something I would want to pay attention to.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:14 am

Do you actually own a HH Wested, Castor?

The reason I ask is that it's not a very thick hide at all. Wested uses a HH that is definitely thinner than most people perceive HH to be. An Aero Leather HH, for example, is palpably thicker.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:54 am

Rob wrote:Do you actually own a HH Wested, Castor?

The reason I ask is that it's not a very thick hide at all. Wested uses a HH that is definitely thinner than most people perceive HH to be. An Aero Leather HH, for example, is palpably thicker.

Yep, my first Wested is a HH actually.

It's certainly not a thick hide, but it is clearly thicker than an authentic lamb. IMO, the HH resembles the jacket used in LC more than authentic lamb in texture, though, since the former is stiffer.

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:21 pm

Does the thinner HH mean that it is not as durable? Does this mean it will break in easier though? I had heard that HH was fairly stiff until it was broken in - true? Like many here I am considering a HH Wested. Is this the HH of choice these days? Also, it is too bad someone does hot have a list of things to ask for when ordering a jacket from Peter - things like smaller pockets, gussets, correct collar etc.
Canada

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:32 pm

My HH is, I believe, a touch different to the HH now being offered because mine is from the start of the process some years back (COW's first HH!), and I think its more standard now. But, FWIW, I think the thinner HH will break in easier, yet also be pretty tough. I dont imagine it ripping, like some member's lamb jackets have ripped, if it gets snagged on a car door, or similar. I'm not sure about it being the "HH of choice" necessarily, as I know many people who swear by their Aero Leather HH coats -- and they are certainly WAY thicker. But, at the price, it's amazing that Wested offers HH at all, and I think it's a really different kind of leather and a great conversation starter with people.

CM · Post by CM » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:26 am

Canada Jones wrote:Does the thinner HH mean that it is not as durable? Does this mean it will break in easier though? I had heard that HH was fairly stiff until it was broken in - true? Like many here I am considering a HH Wested. Is this the HH of choice these days? Also, it is too bad someone does hot have a list of things to ask for when ordering a jacket from Peter - things like smaller pockets, gussets, correct collar etc.
Canada

These more accurate specs are all here - Agent 5's specs or Palton's specs. Just do a search.

Cheers - CM

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:53 am

CM wrote: These more accurate specs are all here - Agent 5's specs or Palton's specs. Just do a search.

Cheers - CM

Thanks Rob and CM. I will search for both Agent 5 and Palton specs and I will go and look at the Aero HH. I remember reading about the A2 jacket years ago when I was buying one (pre wested days for me). They said that HH was what some of the WW2 jackets were made out of (I think because with the success of Automobiles there was a surplus of horses...or is that some kind of urban legend). It was always more money and hard to find so I had written it off. I love my Wested Lamb but there are drawbacks to this type of skin.
Canada

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:39 pm

Canada Jones wrote:
CM wrote: These more accurate specs are all here - Agent 5's specs or Palton's specs. Just do a search.

Cheers - CM
Thanks Rob and CM. I will search for both Agent 5 and Palton specs and I will go and look at the Aero HH. I remember reading about the A2 jacket years ago when I was buying one (pre wested days for me). They said that HH was what some of the WW2 jackets were made out of (I think because with the success of Automobiles there was a surplus of horses...or is that some kind of urban legend). It was always more money and hard to find so I had written it off. I love my Wested Lamb but there are drawbacks to this type of skin.
Canada

Its expensive now, but only because horses are not slaughtered for their hides. Aero uses one US tannery that still produces front quarter HH like they did in the old days, and that is a big factor in their cost. I don;t know where Wested gets theirs, but its very nice stuff, soft and lighter but strong. And your urban legend is true, industrialization and the auto boom rendered horses second fiddle, hence a lot of supply leading up to that time.

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:45 pm

Bjones wrote:
Canada Jones wrote:
CM wrote: These more accurate specs are all here - Agent 5's specs or Palton's specs. Just do a search.

Cheers - CM
Thanks Rob and CM. I will search for both Agent 5 and Palton specs and I will go and look at the Aero HH. I remember reading about the A2 jacket years ago when I was buying one (pre wested days for me). They said that HH was what some of the WW2 jackets were made out of (I think because with the success of Automobiles there was a surplus of horses...or is that some kind of urban legend). It was always more money and hard to find so I had written it off. I love my Wested Lamb but there are drawbacks to this type of skin.
Canada
Its expensive now, but only because horses are not slaughtered for their hides. Aero uses one US tannery that still produces front quarter HH like they did in the old days, and that is a big factor in their cost. I don;t know where Wested gets theirs, but its very nice stuff, soft and lighter but strong. And your urban legend is true, industrialization and the auto boom rendered horses second fiddle, hence a lot of supply leading up to that time.

So if they do not slaughter the horses for their hides how do they get them? I am sure they are not waiting for them to die of old age? I take it front quarter HH is the best kind?
Canada

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:58 am

Canada Jones wrote:
Bjones wrote:
Canada Jones wrote:
They said that HH was what some of the WW2 jackets were made out of (I think because with the success of Automobiles there was a surplus of horses...or is that some kind of urban legend).
Its expensive now, but only because horses are not slaughtered for their hides. Aero uses one US tannery that still produces front quarter HH like they did in the old days, and that is a big factor in their cost. I don;t know where Wested gets theirs, but its very nice stuff, soft and lighter but strong. And your urban legend is true, industrialization and the auto boom rendered horses second fiddle, hence a lot of supply leading up to that time.
So if they do not slaughter the horses for their hides how do they get them? I am sure they are not waiting for them to die of old age? I take it front quarter HH is the best kind?
Canada

They don't slaughter them for leather; they slaughter them for glue

VP · Post by VP » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:25 am

And for sausage.

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:17 am

VP wrote:And for sausage.

Are there horses in sausage? Ugh.

Indiana Blooze · Post by **Indiana Blooze** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:42 am

Castor Dioscuri wrote:
Canada Jones wrote:
Bjones wrote:
Canada Jones wrote:
They said that HH was what some of the WW2 jackets were made out of (I think because with the success of Automobiles there was a surplus of horses...or is that some kind of urban legend).
Its expensive now, but only because horses are not slaughtered for their hides. Aero uses one US tannery that still produces front quarter HH like they did in the old days, and that is a big factor in their cost. I don;t know where Wested gets theirs, but its very nice stuff, soft and lighter but strong. And your urban legend is true, industrialization and the auto boom rendered horses second fiddle, hence a lot of supply leading up to that time.
So if they do not slaughter the horses for their hides how do they get them? I am sure they are not waiting for them to die of old age? I take it front quarter HH is the best kind?
Canada
They don't slaughter them for leather; they slaughter them for glue

Yup, got the proverbial "Glue Factory" just down the road a stretch. Now, you want to smell something that's rank......

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:49 am

Canada Jones wrote:So if they do not slaughter the horses for their hides how do they get them? I am sure they are not waiting for them to die of old age? I take it front quarter HH is the best kind?
Canada

Well, actually yes, or any form of natural death. And that limited availability drives the cost up in most cases. Shell cordovan, which is used to make some dress shoes, boots, etc, is also from horses.

Its a matter of opinion of what the "best" is. The FQ hides Aero use are very dense, thick and heavy. They are VERY tough & durable, but show wear quickly due to the tanning process used. So it will show scuffs and marks pretty easily, but is pretty indestructible as far as leather goes. If you are used to lighter jackets they can be a bit uncomfortable at first - they take awhile to break in. I have one and will be recieving my 2nd aero this week, and I love these jackets.

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:51 am

Indiana Blooze wrote:
Castor Dioscuri wrote:
Canada Jones wrote:
Bjones wrote:
Canada Jones wrote:
They said that HH was what some of the WW2 jackets were made out of (I think because with the success of Automobiles there was a surplus of horses...or is that some kind of urban legend).
Its expensive now, but only because horses are not slaughtered for their hides. Aero uses one US tannery that still produces front quarter HH like they did in the old days, and that is a big factor in their cost. I don;t know where Wested gets theirs, but its very nice stuff, soft and lighter but strong. And your urban legend is true, industrialization and the auto boom rendered horses second fiddle, hence a lot of supply leading up to that time.
So if they do not slaughter the horses for their hides how do they get them? I am sure they are not waiting for them to die of old age? I take it front quarter HH is the best kind?
Canada
They don't slaughter them for leather; they slaughter them for glue
Yup, got the proverbial "Glue Factory" just down the road a stretch. Now, you want to smell something that's rank......

There used to be a slaughter yard/meat packing plant near my grandmothers. Yes, on some days. Whew. They recently tore it down and built a Home Depot. I guess we cannot really complain because it is people like us that keep the leather companies in business.
Canada

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:55 am

Bjones wrote:
Canada Jones wrote:So if they do not slaughter the horses for their hides how do they get them? I am sure they are not waiting for them to die of old age? I take it front quarter HH is the best kind?
Canada
Well, actually yes, or any form of natural death. And that limited availability drives the cost up in most cases. Shell cordovan, which is used to make some dress shoes, boots, etc, is also from horses.

Its a matter of opinion of what the "best" is. The FQ hides Aero use are very dense, thick and heavy. They are VERY tough & durable, but show wear quickly due to the tanning process used. So it will show scuffs and marks pretty easily, but is pretty indestructible as far as leather goes. If you are used to lighter jackets they can be a bit uncomfortable at first - they take awhile to break in. I have one and will be recieving my 2nd aero this week, and I love these jackets.

Thanks Bjones. I have a cowhide A2 which is about as heavy a jacket as I like and actually prefer my Wested Lamb because it is so much lighter. I tried to find an Aero HH indy jacket online. No luck. How much is this jacket?
Canada

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:00 am

Aero does not make an Indy jacket. Nor does anyone do one in front quarter. You are pretty safe to get one from Wested....its not too heavy and its still tough as nails - I love mine, its a great all-purpose jacket.

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:17 pm

Bjones wrote:Aero does not make an Indy jacket. Nor does anyone do one in front quarter. You are pretty safe to get one from Wested....its not too heavy and its still tough as nails - I love mine, its a great all-purpose jacket.

BJones:
Which movie did you go with and did you ask for anything special from Wested?

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:25 pm

I got the TOD in horsehide. I wanted the extra length as I run about 6'4" and didn't want a "shorty" jacket. Only extra I got was an extra inside pocket with a zip pocket. Mine really looks more like the LC, but the collar doesn't match any of the movies-the collar stand makes the collar look more like an A2 on mine. I don't really care as screen accuracy was last on my priorities. Peter (at the time) only charged about 18 pounds more for the HH, which is an incredible bargain. At the time I think I paid a bit over 300 USD with custom sizing. Right now the US dollar to the pound is taking a beating so I don't know what that would wor out to today.

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:38 pm

Bjones wrote:I got the TOD in horsehide. I wanted the extra length as I run about 6'4" and didn't want a "shorty" jacket. Only extra I got was an extra inside pocket with a zip pocket. Mine really looks more like the LC, but the collar doesn't match any of the movies-the collar stand makes the collar look more like an A2 on mine. I don't really care as screen accuracy was last on my priorities. Peter (at the time) only charged about 18 pounds more for the HH, which is an incredible bargain. At the time I think I paid a bit over 300 USD with custom sizing. Right now the US dollar to the pound is taking a beating so I don't know what that would wor out to today.

I hear great things about Peters HH jackets. I am not sure how SA my Lambskin is but as someone said here somewhere the only truly SA jackets are the ones actually worn in the movie. Because these are all handmade there are going to be variations on every jacket especially since different people will make the jackets for the movie when a big order comes in. I like the idea of a zippered inside pocket. mine has a snap and it is quite nice. Actually i have 2 inside pockets. they are great.
Best
Canada

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:44 pm

I always like one zippered, and one open topped inside pocket myself.

That's the way Peter makes them for me.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Jens** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:09 pm

Exactly like I ordered them for my jackets!

One for the scrapbook and one for the wallet.

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:56 pm

That makes sense - an inside zippered pocket. I never thought of that before....but now I think I will add that to my list of things to ask Peter to do....

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:06 pm

You know, I wonder if Wested would ever consider adding a button for the inside pocket (like most suits have) instead of a zipper? While I agree that the zipper is a good way to secure your pocket contents, it does affect the drape of the front a little, while a button would be a bit more inconspicuous.

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:09 pm

Does the zipper really give much difference to the drape? I like the idea of the zip - but a button also makes sense.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:11 pm

Not much, but if you pay the right amount of attention, and want it to fold just the right way...

Basically, only if you're as anal as some of us are

I mainly think though, that a button would look more professional than a zipper. And also I think that having your named actually stitched into the liner would look so much better than having a 'tag' stitched on... Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:17 am

Michaelson:
Does your open topped pocket have a snap? Do you find the zipper scratchy on your hand when you put stuff in it? I assume the zipper gives you a more secure pocket for things like your wallet? I think it is a great idea.

A couple of questions. Is there a standard depth for the inside pockets and are 2 standard? The pockets I have (I have 2) are quite deep but I can't remember if i asked for 2 and asked them to be deeper. Also, the jacket I am looking to get next is the Wested LC HH and I had read something about the outside leather pockets looking too large and that you should request smaller ones.
best
Canada

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:13 am

I have a zippered inside pocket in my Wested (in fact, I think both inside pockets are zippered) and I've never noticed any difference in how it drapes. It's a fine enough zipper that I don't think it makes a lot of difference.

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:35 am

Canada,
Somewhere someone had mentioned that the pocket size really depends on the individuals size. I am 6'4" and was wondering if it would look proportionate with the stock size pockets or if they should be smaller as well.

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:04 pm

nicktheguy wrote:Canada,
Somewhere someone had mentioned that the pocket size really depends on the individuals size. I am 6'4" and was wondering if it would look proportionate with the stock size pockets or if they should be smaller as well.

Makes sense. Personally I love large pockets on coats since I jam all kinds of stuff into them. I think making smaller pockets goes against my practical side. I have a bush jacket, which i love, and it has wonderfully large pockets.
Best
Canada