If Indys 'Traveling Hat' Is Supposedly Grey,Then Why,,,,,

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:40 pm

Well, it still looks grey to me!

I have to say the tie is much brighter looking than I originally thought.

Adios,

Satipo

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:44 pm

It looks gray because it is gray...

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:27 pm

Oxford Gray to be exact. Fedora

G-MANN · Post by **G-MANN** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:49 pm

Yes, Gray hats tend to appear Gray.

G-MANN

WillieS · Post by **WillieS** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:02 pm

Wow... it amazes me how many people still don't want to accept the obvious. The hat was grey, and now we have definitive proof from separate sources.

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:26 pm

In the U.K. - the hat was grey.

Over here in the U.S. - the hat was gray.

Hope that clears it up once and for all....

Dr.Seuss · Post by **Dr.Seuss** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:28 pm

Fedora wrote:Oxford Gray to be exact. Fedora

How does that compare to "Oxford Blue?"

Grey, gray? Is there consensus on the ribbon being ............ black (he inquires, with some trepidation)?

Sincerely,

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:12 am

Fedora wrote:I am of the opinion that even if Spielberg himself posted here, there would still be some who would not believe it.

I don't know, maybe if Elodie vouched for him...

Worst case: this becomes so ridiculous that Spielberg himself DOES send us something to post...or registers himself (and Elodie does vouch that it's him

) ...and they STILL tell him he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.

And then he nukes us, for becoming lost in our own self-contemplation.

Allow me to introduce you to your navel.

What is so hard about accepting that the hat that looks grey on the screen, in still pics, and the director attested to as grey, was in fact grey? Why the heck is this so important that anyone thinks there's virtue in thinking otherwise?

Please oh please, when the folks who KNOW are finally allowed to tell you all, please step back and ask yourself, why CAN'T I believe it was grey? Then ask yourself if you really think it's conceivable that all these nice honest people here are all somehow in cahoots to fabricate a story about a grey hat...and have somehow gone to the extreme of getting the DIRECTOR to go along with it????

Aaauughhhhhhh!

Note: in one of the previous hundred versions of this ridiculous debate, a member posted a pic of him taken ON THE SET with HF fully dressed for the clipper scene. Normal camera. Grey hat. Questions?

I have to go dig that darn picture out again so we can flush the tungsten film issue...

EDIT: thank you, Satipo, I hadn't seen the pic you posted before mine. I was reading the entire thread at once and couldn't get to the end before my frustration meter pegged itself!

That said, I learned one more thing...fatwoul, you need to be careful. Expressing that the only fun you get out of some threads is baiting people? Hello? That's not what we're here for. And if you think this thread is worthless and pointless, then please explain why your posts were so involved...if that's an indication of how much energy you will put into baiting people on the board, then thank you for flagging yourself to the mods/admin. Consider this your warning that this type of behavior will not be tolerated here.

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:51 am

What is so hard about accepting that the hat that looks grey on the screen, in still pics, and the director attested to as grey, was in fact grey? Why the heck is this so important that anyone thinks there's virtue in thinking otherwise?

Because for a while, evidence - such as HJ's contention that they never provided a grey hat - pointed to it being brown. And while you're correct, the evidence now reveals it was almost indisputably grey, people who have been arguing the other side for literally years are not going to just sit down and accept that it turns out they were wrong. Some would call it stubborn, I prefer to look at it as people being lamentably - but understandably - a bit too attached to their ideas of how the filming was done.

Wow... it amazes me how many people still don't want to accept the obvious. The hat was grey, and now we have definitive proof from separate sources.

For a while though, it WASN'T obvious. The hat in question had some definitely strong brown undertones, leading to many of us seeing a brownish hue of grey. Add to that the fact that HJ claimed never to have provided a grey hat, and it is very easy to believe that the hat was in fact a brown one and that our perception of its color was changed either by the lighting or the way in which that strip of film was developed.

What you also may not know is that this argument has been going on for a LONG time. When people have been arguing a point for so long, they become very much attached to it and will be reluctant to accept another point of view, even when there is incontrovertible evidence involved. You can laugh at them, and be amazed at their stubbornness, but, being only human, we're all subject to this behavior, to one degree or another. :junior: -IJ

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:10 am

Good point, IJ. Thank you for the perspective. Perhaps for some it will take time.

(I've got a friend whose response would be "Cleanse with fire!" but I'm more cuddly than that.

)

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:43 am

The hat may look grey...

But if you position it on the staff of Ra, take it to the map room and put it in a certain place, at a certain time of day, the sun will shine through here and make a beam that comes down down on the hat HERE... :arrow:

and reveals the actual color to be brown.

Jack

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:00 am

No no no, eazybox, that's just silly, you can't do that with a hat. Don't you know what the hat is?

...

It's a transmitter for talking to God! And it gets most major networks.

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:02 am

3 pages on whether the hat was gray or brown? again?!?

Look The hat in all three movies was grey throughout. the light may have hit in in such a way to make it look brown but it is grey, same as the jacket!

The hat in the plane scene and at the end of the movie however is most definately brown as you can obviously see in the photos below with Harrison wearing the green suit.

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:08 pm

Indiana Jerry wrote:No no no, eazybox, that's just silly, you can't do that with a hat. Don't you know what the hat is?

...

It's a transmitter for talking to God! And it gets most major networks.

And it's within my reach!

Jack

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:49 pm

Indiana Jerry wrote:No no no, eazybox, that's just silly, you can't do that with a hat. Don't you know what the hat is?

...

It's a transmitter for talking to God! And it gets most major networks.

You were wrong-- can't pick up ANY stations on this thing...

Jack

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:32 pm

Mattdeckard wrote:3 pages on whether the hat was gray or brown? again?!?

Look The hat in all three movies was grey throughout. the light may have hit in in such a way to make it look brown but it is grey, same as the jacket!

The hat in the plane scene and at the end of the movie however is most definately brown as you can obviously see in the photos below with Harrison wearing the green suit.

Exactly! The lighting constantly fools the audience into thinking that the colors are not what they really are! Something all of us have missed as well is the fact that Harrison Ford is actually BLACK! The lighting really makes him look white, but he is black... and his fedora is gray... and his suit is green... and his shirt is neon blue...

IndianaKrueger · Post by **IndianaKrueger** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:56 pm

ROTFLMFAO!!!

Abner1925 · Post by **Abner1925** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:15 am

Geeze.....

WillieS · Post by **WillieS** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:19 am

For a while though, it WASN'T obvious. The hat in question had some definitely strong brown undertones, leading to many of us seeing a brownish hue of grey. Add to that the fact that HJ claimed never to have provided a grey hat, and it is very easy to believe that the hat was in fact a brown one and that our perception of its color was changed either by the lighting or the way in which that strip of film was developed.

What you also may not know is that this argument has been going on for a LONG time. When people have been arguing a point for so long, they become very much attached to it and will be reluctant to accept another point of view, even when there is incontrovertible evidence involved. You can laugh at them, and be amazed at their stubbornness, but, being only human, we're all subject to this behavior, to one degree or another. -IJ

I suppose you think you're talking to a newbie of some sort here. You are not. I also suppose that you think your word about the hat never being obviously grey until just recently is just fact. It's not. I can assure you that I am not a newbie to this interest and have been involved in ways you would not believe, for many years now. I have always seen the hat as grey/gray, and have never accepted anything otherwise. I see no brown undertones in that hat whatsoever as it's in the blue-ish grey family. None of this is new to me, so please don't lump me in with people who didn't know "until recently".

I find it really hard to believe that people can't make up their own minds about something until they read about it here. My entire point was that no matter how much proof surfaces, there will still be the hard headed folks that will never admit that what they have been seeing as brown, was actually grey.

WS

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:50 am

Let's keep it civil, folks. Sounds like there's more heat here than there needs to be.

If I'm misreading the tones, my apologies, but an occasional smilie here and there will go a long way to keeping this amiable.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:52 am

Elvis is dead?

I thought he just went home!

Regards! Michaelson

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:15 am

Michaelson wrote:Elvis is dead?

I thought he just went home!

Regards! Michaelson

What

? I saw him at KFC last night eating chicken! Now does a dead person do this? One wonders! The darned hat was grey/gray -- whatever...let it go! W>

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:37 am

Michaelson wrote:Elvis is dead?

I thought he just went home!

Regards! Michaelson

But whatever you do, don't hit the red button.

Yeah, folks, keep it civil. The reason that previous debates over this have been shut down is because things have gotten ugly. No reason to yell at each other over it. Sadly, this usually seems to happen with this debate, so I'll be glad to lock this one down early if you folks want.

(Look! I used a smiley.

)

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:26 am

Michaelson wrote:Elvis is dead?

I thought he just went home!

Somehow that line always works better if you're hanging upside down w/ your hair sticking out...

(<---Smiley! Smiley! Don't smite me! aaiieeeeEEEEE!)

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:59 am

I can relate quite well....especially when an 8-track in-dash radio combination is involved!! $\:D/$

Regards! Michaelson

Dostacos · Post by **Dostacos** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:22 pm

actually it is not gray and it is not brown it is really OLIVE

looks for a Plymouth to dive under....

ydam · Post by **ydam** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:37 pm

I dont know what the big deal is about this hat thing. The hat is one of the worst parts of the costume anyway. I personally think they should have made Indys hero hat Short Rounds ball cap instead!!!

8-[

Beats Dostacos to the Plymouth and forces him to fend for himself

Indiana Johnson · Post by **Indiana Johnson** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:53 pm

Wait, wait, wait.
I've been following this debate for a while, and I was a little confused about a particular point. So before it continues, or gets worse, or gets shut down, I just want to clear up one little question.....

Indiana Jones wore a hat???

Dostacos · Post by **Dostacos** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:19 pm

Indiana Johnson wrote:Wait, wait, wait.
I've been following this debate for a while, and I was a little confused about a particular point. So before it continues, or gets worse, or gets shut down, I just want to clear up one little question.....

Indiana Jones wore a hat???

yes but this discussion is regarding Henry Jones Jr.s hat

LANDINGPARTY · Post by **LANDINGPARTY** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:50 am

So how come Herbert Johnson doesnt have a gray poet?

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:43 am

As a member of the film community - and having worked with Kathleen Kennedy and Frank Marshall on Snow Falling on Cedars a few years ago, I brought up th esubject of the Gray hat in Raiders. Both of them were astonished. It apparently was not a Gray hat at all - in fact it was a grayish-gray-browny gray, gray mountie hat that he wore. The lighting actually was able to shape the brim into a sort of fedora style. What an amazing DP they had on the film. In fact, most of the hats in the film were actually knit wool hats (or as we say in Canada "toques") with gaff tape and cardboard - and I'm sorry to say that it's not a whip that he used, but a leather skipping rope (he is in the education business after all). If you don't believe me on this you can check out the Simpsons episode about the Radioactive Man movie, when the grips explain that when they want horses on a film set they have to tape cats together. Imagine that....Indy chasing after the Ark on a couple cats duct-taped together. It looks fantastic on screen...

NOw, can't we all just live and let live? I love this board, I love this community - and I love our viewpoints!

Here's to us all!! (raising my saspirilla high in the air - and toasing all of you)

Nick

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:09 am

Hear, hear!

Mark Brody · Post by **Mark Brody** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:18 am

_ wrote:OJ really did it.

...twice.

I thought this thread was dead. I'd have to agree with WillieS, though. You may learn a lot here at COW, but what looked grey to me in 1988 will still look grey in 2007 (sorry, but I can't remember having seen movie any earlier than '88 ). Did all the brown advocates change their minds, or did we scare them away?

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:50 am

Ya know,it seems this thread has just gone south of cheese! It's turned into the 'Great Debate' again,and that was not the subject matter to begin with. The point of the thread was to state the inconsistencies in what the makers of this film say. Speilberg is on the record saying 'Indys travel hat is grey' We know for a fact that this isn't true. It's plain as day to see when Indy steps out of Donovans car at the airport that his hat is brown. Is he not traveling?? When he is in Venice,it's the same brown hat,and he's not in his adventure gear,so this must be his 'travel hat' still. So, in an indirect way this does have something to do with the 'Great Debate' because it debunks Speilbergs comment, meaning NO, his travel hat isn't always brown. My point is,if he can't get this right, Nadoolman can't get the Redwing/Alden thing right,let alone the grey/brown thing,,other prolific folks say they never supplied grey hats,,then what real foundation about this claim do we really have?? We'll never know for sure,,that is the real truth. Me,I go by my eyes,not what anyone here or anywhere else says. The thing took place over twenty years ago,,no one remembers now,and the hat that was used is nowhere to be found,and never has a grey hat turned up in any auction or Smithsonian or anything,,so it's circumstantial at best.
Thank you for your time ;-) please help yourself to the free food and salad bar....

TR

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:01 am

I don't see what your problem is with Spielberg's comments, TR. Heck, you're LUCKY to actually have HIS input on this, and you still aren't happy? You need habeus corpus, too, Doubting Thomas?

From what I understand, the statement was about the clipper hat (which, gee, by your own testimony Your Eyes agree with that comment), and that this was the *intention*. The hats in the other movie don't change that, but since this has been pointed out to you previously by many people here, including those who were involved in the conversations, all I can surmise is you really don't trust the word of anyone else here, nor will you yeild to the preponderance of testimony because of lingering questions due to some contradictions.

This isn't the X-Files, TR, it's just a hat, man. If we dragged the cigarette-smoking-man in here to say it was grey would you finally let go? So there are some inconsistencies in some accounts. You might have noticed the world isn't a perfect place. Yes I know that's part of your point, but that doesn't mean the preponderance of actual information is wrong because it's not flawlessly unanimous.

The principle of Occam's Razor applies here - the simplest answer that remains after throwing out the impossible or highly bloody unlikely is most likely the answer. So, is it more likely that not one single person can remember a single thing correctly enough after so many years that you 'trust no one', or is it more likely that after 25 years, much serious thought and recollection about something which is no longer a passing thought but rather something the director is now living and breathing on a daily basis again that you should probably just shut up and trust the man?

(The fact that one hasn't shown up is not proof by negation that the hat was brown, oh no, it only proves a grey hat never made it to daylight after production. It probably had little importance to folks as his 'not brown' hat, and it's probably in someone's collection - or closet - as Indy's instartlingly un-brown hat. Try a bit of non-fanboy perspective here: To the majority of the world it is less than a curiosity, since it's not the iconic item.)

But continuing with the idea that you can't trust Spielberg's comments...Sister Mary Francis in a sidecar, man! Frankly, if you kept insisting the *I* can't be trusted to remember details of my own life from 25 years ago I'd be sorely tempted to drag your butt around my hometown for a few days and show you stuff that is obviously tattoo'd on my mind forever, because some people DO remember stuff forever. And if you insisted that my mother remembered something differently so therefore everything I say is bunk, I'd be resolved to just poking you in the eye, since you aren't using it to see what's around you anyway.

Now, since you have pointed out that the debate about grey/brown itself is off-topic from your thread about what can be trusted, I'm ignoring that too because I'm also tired of it. But since you've also now pointed out that on the topic you Meant this thread for, you are NOT interested in anyone else's opinion, but instead insisting nothing in this world is truth, then I don't see the point of this thread at all, or this board at ALL from your point of view, if you can't extend a little logic, faith, trust, and pixie dust.

But this is your misery to wallow in, so I can't see any reason to lock it up and make you think we're tyranical, oh no, have at it... but I wouldn't expect many people to bother talking to it if you're just going to ignore everything they say.

I'm going to try that kind of Worldview myself, it might be liberating to just ignore everyone. I'm starting here.

Unsubscribe.

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:08 am

This isn't the X-Files, TR, it's just a hat, man.

LOL!

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:46 am

Alright, this is beating the dead horse again, and as usual, things have gone downhill with this particular subject. Whether you agree with Speilberg or not, I'm shutting this one down.