Does Stetson have a new hat?

Mark Brody · Post by **Mark Brody** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:50 pm

The first time I checked Indygear.com (before I noticed the forum) I took a good look at each of the hats on the main page. I'd checked out Miller Hats for the Indiana Miller and the Stetson Temple, but changed my mind before ordering one. Now they have a beaver version of the Stetson Temple, but now they call it the "Pinnacle."

I've got 2 vintage Stetsons, and I'm very happy with both of them, but I've heard the "Temple" doesn't really live up to what Stetson usually makes. Do you think this might live up to the company name?

http://www.millerhats.com/stdress_index/stethats.htm

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:16 pm

Stetsons aren't what they used to be... though I don't think they are bad hats. Just overpriced and riding mainly on the quality they once produced.

If you want a hat that looks like that, (or just a beaver felt with a fairly short wait time), send a pictureor description to Art Fawcett. He'll make a custom 100% beaver hat that will bowl you over, and at about the same price!

His website has pictures of stuff he's done, but by no means is his work limited to what you see.
http://www.vintagesilhouettes.com/

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:27 pm

stetson temple would make a good indy blues brothers hat....'indy' because of the colour and blues brothers becuase of the shape and bash. if you're looking for anything indiana jones, stay far away from this hat. i have this hat and here's my breakdown:

1. the crown is too short
2. the crown is too tapered
3. the brim is too short
4. the ribbon is too wide
5. the non-pinnacle version has plasticy felt that runs when it gets wet

on the plus side:

1. the ribbon is the right colour
2. the bow is made quite nicely
3. its a good hat to practice the 'james bond' throw onto a hat rack just before you hit on ms. moneypenny

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:39 pm

I used to own a Temple in the '80's. The crown shrank so drastically that it could hardly take any shape at all. I never had a hat that shrank as badly. To be fair, I had other hats from Stetson that were much better quality, including some of their official Indys.

Jack

cooncatbob · Post by **cooncatbob** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:50 pm

I have 2 hats made by Art, A Hoosier and one of his light weight bodied hats. Art's a joy to work with, he'll send you a conformer which will measure the size and shape of your head. These measurement will be kept on file for future needs. Once you've worn a hat custom made to your head it's hard to go back to off the shelf.
Bob.

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:02 pm

I agree, I would take the custom hat over an off-the-shelf Stetson any day, especially if it's about the same price.

Jack

Jaredraptor · Post by **Jaredraptor** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:05 pm

eazybox wrote:I agree, I would take the custom hat over an off-the-shelf Stetson any day, especially if it's about the same price.

Jack

Agreed.

Indycop · Post by **Indycop** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:14 pm

cooncatbob wrote:I have 2 hats made by Art, A Hoosier and one of his light weight bodied hats. Art's a joy to work with, he'll send you a conformer which will measure the size and shape of your head. These measurement will be kept on file for future needs. Once you've worn a hat custom made to your head it's hard to go back to off the shelf.
Bob.

That second one is relally nice! If its not too personal what kind of price range are arts hats?

Mark Brody · Post by **Mark Brody** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:14 pm

Thanks for your help, everyone. I guess when it comes to Stetson, I'll stick only to vintage hats.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:16 pm

has art ever made a hat to indy specs?

Jaredraptor · Post by **Jaredraptor** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:19 pm

Indiana G wrote:has art ever made a hat to indy specs?

I was wondering that too.

cooncatbob · Post by **cooncatbob** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:32 pm

Indiana G wrote:has art ever made a hat to indy specs?

What's Indy specs?
Tall crown with no taper and dimensionally cut brim?
You could just ask him.
http://www.vintagesilhouettes.com/
Bob.

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:58 pm

I'll join the pro-Art Fawcett brigade. Here's my Tropic-Aire from Art:

I believe Art has passed interest in Indy hats on to Steve Delk in the past. I doubt he would take them on without Steve's blessing, but it never hurts to ask.

As for his prices, as Chewbacca suggests, if you are willing to pay the price for the Pinnacle linked above, then you are in Art's price range already.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:10 pm

i have seen art's work here on the forum and i am very impressed with it. very artistic in how the ribbons are selected and placed. how is his delivery times?

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:24 pm

Weeks rather than months. It depends on his current backlog. With an initial order he sends you a conformer that you size to your head and send back in order to get a custom fit.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:38 am

Weeks rather than months.

You sure about that? The last time I talked to Art, he had quite a backlog, and that was a couple of months ago. Fedora

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:46 pm

Fedora wrote:
Weeks rather than months.
You sure about that? The last time I talked to Art, he had quite a backlog, and that was a couple of months ago. Fedora

My order this summer only took a few weeks, but things could be different now. I certainly can't speak for him. The best thing to do is drop Art an email.

I hope the backlog isn't too long because I have a hat in for a reblock right now!

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:59 pm

Fedora wrote:
Weeks rather than months.
You sure about that? The last time I talked to Art, he had quite a backlog, and that was a couple of months ago. Fedora

I am having a custom made hat made by Art right now, for a costume of mine. He recently e-mailed me and said he's about 6 weeks deep in work, prior to my order.

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:32 pm

What do I love more, to rant about something that I love, or rant about something that I hate?

I PASSIONATLY despise the people at Stetson because of the "Ark" and the "Temple" for the simple fact that they're over-priced pieces of garbage that a lot of people spent their money on when they could have made something worth buying. It's an over-priced costume-novelty product, and I hate the thought that they were able to cheat my fellow retro's out of some coin.

I used to really like them, but had to keep buying new ones (because I was an idiot) since they tapered at the mere smell of water. It took my first Akubra, then Art Fawcett, then Steve Delk's to know what real fedoras should look like, how they should be made, and how they should last.

I would like to see Stetson offer a cash refund, a letter of apology to each one of us, and then burn their factory's down to the ground. Other then then, I have no strong feelings on the issue...

Jaredraptor · Post by **Jaredraptor** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:34 pm

Renderking Fisk wrote:What do I love more, to rant about something that I love, or rant about something that I hate?

I PASSIONATLY despise the people at Stetson because of the "Ark" and the "Temple" for the simple fact that they're over-priced pieces of garbage that a lot of people spent their money on when they could have made something worth buying. It's an over-priced costume-novelty product, and I hate the thought that they were able to cheat my fellow retro's out of some coin.

I used to really like them, but had to keep buying new ones (because I was an idiot) since they tapered at the mere smell of water. It took my first Akubra, then Art Fawcett, then Steve Delk's to know what real fedoras should look like, how they should be made, and how they should last.

I would like to see Stetson offer a cash refund, a letter of apology to each one of us, and then burn their factory's down to the ground. Other then then, I have no strong feelings on the issue...

Dude..........while I agree with you on Stetson's "Ark" and "Temple", burning their factories down is a little harsh, doncha think? I mean, some of their cowboy hats are still pretty good.....I think....

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:44 pm

I don't know Art's current turn around times, but he's very good about estimating delivery time. My first took the longest, but I had to get the conformer and return it, and he made a permanent mold of my head shape for future hats. Either way, even if it's a couple of months, it's better than most custom hatters are quoting these days.

As for Art doing an Indy, I think he did one that was specifically an Indy hat, but generally leaves that to Steve. Still, he has several nice, untapered blocks. They won't have the subtle details of an AB block, but they will make a great 30's hat, and you can specify crown hieght and brim width. Ask for open crown, and you'll end up with a dandy Indy hat.

Finally, his prices; see the second post in this thread for Art's website. His prices can be a little more, depending on what he's putting together. And he will work with you if you have concerns. If you're willing to contemplate a $300 Stetson, picking Art is a no-brainer.

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:20 pm

Jaredraptor wrote:Dude..........while I agree with you on Stetson's "Ark" and "Temple", burning their factories down is a little harsh, doncha think? I mean, some of their cowboy hats are still pretty good.....I think....

I MIGHT be a little harsh and over the top only to convay my dislike to what's been done to the Stetson name.

Jaredraptor · Post by **Jaredraptor** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:21 pm

Renderking Fisk wrote:
Jaredraptor wrote:Dude..........while I agree with you on Stetson's "Ark" and "Temple", burning their factories down is a little harsh, doncha think? I mean, some of their cowboy hats are still pretty good.....I think....
I MIGHT be a little harsh and over the top only to convay my dislike to what's been done to the Stetson name.

No disagreements there. I've been able to compare a vintage and a modren Stetson. Most definitely preferred the vintage.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:20 am

While you may "dislike" the Stetson Ark and Temple, there are folks who have gotten great use out of theirs and have had great luck with them. Is Stetson anything like they were before Hatco bought out the name? Absolutely not. I won't argue that. But I will argue that one man's hated hat is another's pride and joy. Heck, I know folks who own Optimos yet still love their fur felt Dorfmans for what they are. There will always be those of us who appreciate the high end hats, but there will be just as many, if not more, who appreciate the Ark and Temple for what it is. My Adventurebilt is off to those fine hat wearers who wear their Hatco Stetsons, Millers, and Dorfman Pacifics with pride, because it's the attitude of the wearer that makes the difference and not the hat that makes the wearer.

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:40 am

Bink, I hear what you're saying (or read what you're writing) and I have no quarrel with you because you're a good guy. I don't want there to be a chilling effect on this table because we can't warn people away from bad products. I don't intentionally try and hurt people's feelings... but I have to say my bit about products that I know are a rip-off.

I genuinely feel bad for folks who have bought these lids, worn them out and they've tapered like crazy. I don't mean to demean those people at all, not even in the slightest.

I feel really bad for people who buy into the name Stetson, like I did... thinking that since the name has been around for a while, they should be good hats, and feel ripped off because they don't hold up well with regular wear.

Stetson could have taken some steps to make sure their products hold or held up better. In 2002 I paid $20 more for a Regular Fed then a Stetson Ark would have cost... five years and two months later it still looks great. A Stetson Ark or Temple only lasted a few months.

If anyone here has taken or will take offense with anything I've said, I'm sorry. But I get real offended and angry when people try to take advantage of this group. And that's what I think some vendors have done.

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:12 am

One of the toughest hats in my collection is a 1984 Stetson Indy TOD issue-- it has stood up to major abuse and still retains its original shape. Another great one is the LC beaver/rabbit blend. I've had some really bad Stetsons too, though, but my experience with them doesn't extend past 1989 when I first discovered Herbert Johnson through Lee Keppler.

I do like a variety of different styles and quality of hats and not just the Indy fedora. Aside from the Indys, one of my favorites is a Zorro hat (the old Walt Disney series) made from the same block as was Guy William's.

Jack

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:03 am

Does any one have any pics of the Stetson TOD issue?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:31 am

Ren, I'm glad you think I'm a good guy. I've fooled you all! Muahahahahahaaaa! I know how bad the majority of Dorfmans are, but I still might get one someday, simply because I wanted one as a kid and never got one. It has nothing to do with the quality of the hat.

Stetson could have taken some steps to make sure their products hold or held up better.

That's the problem -- it's HATCO who should've taken the steps to make sure the Stetson name held up better. Stetson is only a product name anymore, and not a true hat manufacturer. Hatco owns the bulk of popular hat brands anymore. There's no arguing that most hats nowadays aren't nearly as good as the vintage fedoras we love. All you have to do is compare.

There are a lot of hats out there trying to fill various markets -- not all of them the Indy market -- and it's their perogative to make a profit doing so. Around these parts, many of us want the "perfect Indy fedora." Plenty of us have worked our way up through the various offerings, including the Dorfmans, Stetsons, Millers, etc., before reaching the next step of the Akubras, PBs, Kepplers, before moving to the JPDs, Camptowns, Optimos, ABs, and so on. It's a learning process and those of us who started out at the bottom of the list and now wear hats from the top would like to steer newbies toward and away from various hats. I think we largely mean well by it, but we need to remember that not everyone can or wants to jump right into something as nice (and "expensive") as an Adventurebilt.

There was a gearhead who fairly recently asked opinions regarding a specific hat choice, and though there were people trying to persuade him to buy "the better or the best," what it came down to was that this fellow had a very specific budget he wanted to stick with (regardless of the "save your money for something else" arguments) and planned to wear the hat on an occasional basis. He knew full well the hat wasn't the most screen accurate or the highest quality hat, but he knew it worked for him. And to my knowledge, he was satisfied with his purchase. If it happened to have been a Stetson Ark or Temple, and he was happy with it, does it still constitute a rip-off? Again, I'm not arguing the quality of new versus vintage Stetsons, rather the satisfaction of the customer. It may feel like a rip-off to us, but it could be ideal for someone else.

Ultimately it is up to the buyer to make his or her choice and it is equally up to the buyer to do the homework before making that purchase. We can share our opinions, but I've always found such opinions more helpful and credible when they are presented in an objective and well-reasoned manner. But we have to respect the buyer's choice at the end of the day. Remember, plenty of vintage hats were considered "disposable" in their day. Besides, if wearing a Stetson Ark or Temple means that's one more fedora wearer out in the world, is it really such a bad thing?

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:35 am

Soooo has anyone bought one of these $310.00 Pinnacle hats?

I am curious to see if they are truly beaver like their high-end cowboy hats or just a crappy blend that will not last for 45 minutes...

Maybe they have caught on that with so many online hatters (Steve, Marc, Jimmy Pierce, etc.) that are offering hats made from quality felts at a higher price and making money from fedoras while their(Stetson) market is shrivelling that they may start making good product again

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:47 am

Here is a ling to a page with a zooming view of the Pinnacle:

http://s7ondemand7.scene7.com/s7ondeman ... son-TBFE03

Arkansas Russell · Post by **Arkansas Russell** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:01 pm

Thought I would add my TVA fedora that Mike Moore made for me.
Here are a few shots. This is already posted over on the Lounge, but some may not have seen the photos.

The liner is Mikes western one, he had said if the demand is right he would like to get a different one for the fedoras. But, I kinda like this one.

and one on me...

You can find Mike at Buckaroohatters . First off he does not make Indy hats and he will tell you he leaves that to Steve Delk, but he does make a great 30's type fedora. The TVA he made for me was so named because of a photo from 1936 of my grandfather wearing a hat like this when he was working on the TVA in Alabama.
Mike bashed my hat in a diamond style but I know it would also take a center dent well.
Just thought I would add this as Mike was great to work with and will do his best to give you what you are looking for.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:20 pm

AR, that is a great looking hat! pardon my ignorance but what is TVA? also, whats the material and size of ribbon?

that looks great on you

cooncatbob · Post by **cooncatbob** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:34 pm

Indiana G wrote:AR, that is a great looking hat! pardon my ignorance but what is TVA? also, whats the material and size of ribbon?

that looks great on you

Tennessee Valley Authority.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:34 pm

Indiana G wrote: pardon my ignorance but what is TVA? that looks great on you

You're not the Lone Ranger, G. I was caught flat footed on that one too.

Regards! Michaelson

Arkansas Russell · Post by **Arkansas Russell** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:49 pm

Indiana G wrote:.. whats the material and size of ribbon?..

It is 100% beaver and the ribbon is 1 3\4 inches.

Sorry ...TVA stands for Tennessee Valley Authority, thanks CoonCatBob!
The TVA was just what I named the hat since it was the time frame and where my grandfather was working at the time.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:54 pm

Very nice, Russell.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:09 pm

Oh, THAT TVA!

I knew what it meant here in Tennessee, but for the life of me I couldn't make that connection to this hat!

Thanks!

Regards! Michaelson

Arkansas Russell · Post by **Arkansas Russell** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:03 pm

For a point of reference, here is my grand dad in 1936 Athens Alabama.
When he was working for the Tennessee Valley Authority.

For no more than Mike Moore had to go on, I think he nailed the spirit of the fedora, if not the exact hat itself.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:04 pm

Yep, Athens is a rocks throw (well, if you thow it REAL REAL REAL hard

) from where I'm sitting at this moment.

Regards! Michaelson

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:20 pm

Michaelson wrote:Yep, Athens is a rocks throw (well, if you thow it REAL REAL REAL hard ) from where I'm sitting at this moment.

Be careful about throwing rocks in the general direction of those nuclear reactors.

Arkansas Russell · Post by **Arkansas Russell** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:28 pm

Thanks guys for the kind words on my fedora!
When the weather breaks here... I am sure I will be getting ALOT of wear out of this great hat.