Beaver vs Rabbit

[Mark Brody]

Still trying to learn some of the ropes about hats, so help is much appreciated.

From what I've gathered, beaver is the best hatmaking material. I know the ABs are beaver, and I guess I assumed that the other fine hats here (PB, Fed, etc.) were also beaver. Now I know this is not the case.

If beaver is supposed to be the best material out there, how could a rabbit PB be the only "bulletproof" hat discussed in here? Is there something I'm missing?

Also, what does it mean when a hatter says "fur felt?" To me, that doesn't narrow it down to one animal or the other. Thus, I'm having trouble finding out what each of these hats are made of.

Thanks,
Mark

[Bufflehead Jones]

Still trying to learn some of the ropes about hats, so help is much appreciated.

From what I've gathered, beaver is the best hatmaking material. I know the ABs are beaver, and I guess I assumed that the other fine hats here (PB, Fed, etc.) were also beaver. Now I know this is not the case.

If beaver is supposed to be the best material out there, how could a rabbit PB be the only "bulletproof" hat discussed in here? Is there something I'm missing?

Thick felt and a lot of stiffener. Kinda resembles a football helmet. The same consistency as a cowboy hat.

Also, what does it mean when a hatter says "fur felt?" To me, that doesn't narrow it down to one animal or the other. Thus, I'm having trouble finding out what each of these hats are made of.

Thanks,
Mark

Fur felt is a very generic term that means the hat is made out of some kind of hairy substance. It doesn't really provide any useful information.

[binkmeisterRick]

Well, Buff, you're kinda hairy. Can we make a hat out of you?

[Indycop]

there's an image I didn't need right before going to bed! Now I'm gonna have nightmares!!

[Mulceber]

If beaver is supposed to be the best material out there, how could a rabbit PB be the only "bulletproof" hat discussed in here? Is there something I'm missing?

The term "bullet-proof" when used to describe the PB is something of a joke. It's referring to the fact that the felt is so stiff and thick that it could probably really stop a bullet (okay, so it probably couldn't, but that's why it's a joke). And believe it or not, that's generally not a desirable trait in an Indy hat, seeing as the screen-used hats were very floppy, which implies that the felt was rather thin, and had very little stiffener.

The excellence of beaver is based on more than just it's toughness; beaver fur is naturally water repellant, which means your beaver hat will be less prone to tapering in a rain storm. Its texture is also a good deal softer than rabbit, which is one of the first things you'll notice about it. Plus, for some reason, Beaver just takes to being blocked more naturally than Rabbit does (at least, I'm pretty sure I recall Fedora mentioning that once or twice).

Also, what does it mean when a hatter says "fur felt?" To me, that doesn't narrow it down to one animal or the other. Thus, I'm having trouble finding out what each of these hats are made of.

fur felt isn't all that useful a term. It does help you when you want to make sure you aren't buying wool felt, but that's about it. More often than not, it helps the hat seller more as it allows them to advertise without having to actually tell the consumer what type of fur is in the hat.

For the purposes of hat shopping, you can generally assume that unless the hatter advertises the hat as being beaver, it isn't. :junior: -IJ

[Dr.Seuss]

Some food for thought, from JP, years, ago.

I am probably going to upset some people in the industry by posting thtis but oh well.

If you are sold a hat and told it is pure beaver and it shrinks or tapers then one of to things happened. One is that you were lied to. The other is that the felt was greatly over stretched in the blocking process.

I am currently try to shrink bown a pure beaver western hat. It is a royal pain in the rear. it has take three days and extreme measures and it is still not quite to where it needs to be.

I have left two of my pure beaver hats in a hot car ofter they were sweated in and rained on and they didn't shink a bit.

This is why beaver is used for hats. It holds a shape and is tough over a long period of time

Just putting the info out for the public. I have had several people asking about it in western hats lately and thought I would pass it on.

To my understanding, the PB is the only lid made from "western" weight felt. Thick felt and, at times, loaded with stiffener. It can be difficult to achieve the shape you want, given that combination. But, it "feels" like it is indestructible.

Just be careful, if you iron it.

Sincerely,

[Mark Brody]

On that note, who has experience with Lee Keppler? As far as I know, AB and LK are the only beaver hats out there (or are they?). Are Beaver hats always superior to Rabbit?

[Swindiana]

Well, Buff, you're kinda hairy. Can we make a hat out of you?

Myself, I'm good for about two felt Sombreros... and a poncho to go with it.

Regards,
Swindiana

[Michaelson]

The Keppler is not beaver. It's a rabbit/beaver blend, with the emphasis on the 'rabbit' side of the equation.

The AB, AB Deluxe and the JPDesign's are 100% beaver. I know of one other that's coming on line in the very near future that will be 100% beaver, but that is still a work in process.

Other than that, anyone else know of any other vendor I've forgotten offering 100% beaver rather than blends?

Regards! Michaelson

[Indycop]

Michaelson you know of one other coming soon hah. Keeping it a secret? Here's a cup of cl_l, now tell us what you know, or else Your fire is getting low fraulein, let's get it going again.

[Michaelson]

Nope. That's why vendors talk to me, my friend. I do not share info until THEY give me the go ahead, so they bounce ideas off me as they proceed.

Many projects have gotten off the ground that way, and many have died by the wayside over the years, but keeping mum until given the green light keeps them interested in working on new stuff for us without having to deal with emails from folks bothering them for details they don't want to give out yet.

Regards! Michaelson

[Indycop]

oh well, I guess that's why I'm a beat cop and not a detective. I don't get the really good information. I think I may need that cup of cl_l myself.

[Fedora]

Art Fawcett of the Fedora Lounge uses pure beaver felt too. I sorta take a little credit for this. Art was using other sorts of blends when I told him about the beaver. Once he ordered some bodies and worked them up, he was a convert. Now, this is my side of the story, and Art may have another, but in the end, he went with pure beaver on most of his vintage styled hats. If anyone here is after a vintage styled hat, in any vintage style, give my buddy Art a call. I think he is even gearing up to offer Indy fedoras once the new film comes out, but could me mistaken on that. Art is an artist when it comes to his hats. He would rather create you a one of a kind hat to suit your personality, and has quite a following of loyal customers on that other board. And he was nice enough to really get me out of a crack recently by selling me, dirt cheap, some plain liners that were worth alot more than he charged me for them. Art is a good guy, as most who know him are fully aware of. A hatter's hatter if you get my drift. Fedora

Beaver fur is the best fur to use for any felt hat, but generally you pay dearly for this sort of hat. You can't farm beaver like you can rabbits. So, a beaver hat is a wild fur hat. Wild rabbits make better hats than farmed raised rabbits, and wild hare is better than wild rabbit.

One would think that mink would be better than beaver, but this is not the case. There is no such animal as a pure mink hat, because pure mink can't be felted into a nice even hat. It "pushes" even under slow felting processes. That means it lumps up due to its tendency to "felt" too fast. If you get a hat like a Stetson "Touch of mink" you can be sure there is only a pinch of mink in the mix. Most feltmakers don't fool with mink due to this. You can use up to a certain percentage of mink, and if you can get a feltmaker (like Marc did) to use the maximum, you end up with a very rare hat. And I am proud to say, Marc has had this done by his feltmaker, and I hear it is really something special. One of those 4 bodies he had made will end up on my head one day. Being a hatter, owning the rarest felt in the world is something I find very desirable. Marc is still just looking at those bodies and drooling like crazy. Maybe one day he will get caught up so he and I can own a new hat.

[G-MANN]

One of those 4 bodies he had made will end up on my head one day.

I'm proud to say that I'm on that extremely short list as well

G-MANN

[indy89]

BEAVER!!

[Fedora]

I'm proud to say that I'm on that extremely short list as well

Indeed my friend!! Looks like me you and Marc will own a rare bird, er, beast one of these days when Marc can find time to fix us up. I hear the only way he could get his feltmaker to run this rare body was to make the feltmaker one too!! And the feltmaker is also a hatter from a very long line of hatters. I guess Marc even impressed this old world hatter!!! Needless to say, us 4 will own the rarest hat in the world. I feel honored!!! Marc, did I ever tell you how much of a good friend you are?? And I am so glad that feltmaker is doing this as a favor to you. He has to be, to spend that much time maximizing the mink content without pushing the felt. And it is good to know that he will make these bodies for no one else, due to the difficulty involved. I have heard a hatter brag on his rare bodies, but unlike his bodies, these here are genuinely rarities, in the highest sense of the word. And not to worry Marc, I ain't saying what the maximum amount of mink can be used in a beaver/mink hat. The feltmaker let you in on the secret, and I will take that one to the grave. I guess me and you and GMann will have to form our own little club. (I won't mention your felter's name) Maybe us 3 or 4 can get together one day and admire one another's hats. LOL. That would be cool. Fedora

[Minnesota Jones]

Another thing with fur felt over wool is that wool felt is... well... wool! It's cheaper than fur felt. Wool is also more easy to obtain as well. Just get some shears... Fur felt... the critter has to "give it up" for our hobby so to speak.

I've also got an Optimo that's a beaver/nutria blend. A nutria is another little critter that's fur can be used in hats. It's a very fine and soft felt. Really nice.

[Bufflehead Jones]

Doesn't that run up your heating and cooling costs?

[Indiana G]

bink, meet me at g-mann's house 'round 3 am...leave the lockpick set at home......gonna need some help carrying out a bunch of ab deluxes.

[binkmeisterRick]

Let's check out the fridge while we're at in, just in case we get hungry.

[G-MANN]

"Release the Hounds. "

[Indycop]

uh, fellas burglarys a felony! Though I wouldn't be able to see it if I had my vision obscured by one of those hats!

[indy89]

"Release the Hounds. "