ToD Fedora Revalation

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:20 pm

I was watching Temple of Doom last night, and had to do a few pause/slow mo moments, when I made a realization.

We've discussed the non-HJ ToD fedoras before, but this caught my eye...during the scene where Indy and Shorty are trapped in the Spike Chamber, then Willie 'saves' them...after she re-starts the trap, and they run out, rolling under the lowering door...Indy's fedora falls off, and he reaches back under to get it..we all remember this scene...

However, if you pause it, the fedora that flies off of his head does NOT have a liner! You see sweatband, but no liner?? So it would seem that I caught at least one non-HJ in the film. There is a great opportunity for screen grabs just as it flies off, and again after it lands on its side..

Sorry... I don't do screen captures, but if anybody else gets inspired, please feel free to do so, and post 'em!

just thought I'd share...and that's ONE TO GROW ON-----><

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:22 pm

add shooting star here

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:31 pm

er......or is the shooting star on "the more you know" psa's??? i'm confused.

regardless....back to the hats. i've studied the tod hats a while back and they are so hard to keep track of as they change from scene to scene. the hat that indy wears while in the cave before the spike chamber seems to be the same one that he wears when he first meets chattar lal (sp?) at the entrance to the palace (ie - the block looks the same from the side profile). now while he is in the spike chamber....its too dark for me to tell. perhaps i'll go check it out again cuz it's in the dvd machine right now.

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:35 pm

Indiana G wrote:add shooting star here

psst..that's what the

-----><

was supposed to be

IG, check out that exact scene, maybe look for the Hat Pin, or the Official DP decal in the crown? haha!

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:46 pm

during the scene where Indy and Shorty are trapped in the Spike Chamber, then Willie 'saves' them...after she re-starts the trap

Dunno if you ever noticed but when she bends down to reset the trap, take a look over at Indy's face. It's not even Ford (it's Vic Armstrong) and they didn't even try to hide it. It's my method of thinking that Spielberg used his directing skills to cover this by placing the viewers point of interest on Willie, who was jumping around and screaming, forcing your eyes on her. It obviously worked because I'd never noticed it for literally decades. Whenever I show people they seem just as stunned because it's so blatant and they'd never noticed it either.

Another point to consider is that in that scene it's Vic Armstrong. If I remember correctly from interviews condicted with him from COW alumni, he wore his Raiders HJ for all 3 Indy films and removed the liner. This could be the reason there is no liner.

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:59 pm

Agent5...HOLY CROW!!! I hereby tender my resignation, and turn in my detective license! I have NEVER seen those images of Vic in that scene, or even noticed!! (ok, neither did the rest of the free world, but still...!

)

Thanks for sharing this! ok..that also explains the hat!

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:59 pm

oh man....i never picked that up before

thanks agent 5!!!

raider 57 · Post by **raider 57** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:36 pm

Maybe Speilberger's way of acknowledging the stuntmen's major contributions to the films. Has Steven himself ever been spotted in a background scene??? raider 57

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:03 pm

That is one amazing find

, I'm putting the DVD in right now.

Great job Agent5!!!!!!

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:46 pm

Spielberg probably didn't want to do it. But, he probably had to have Vic Armstrong in that part of that scene, so that as the scene progressed, moments later, it could be the stuntman that uses perfect timing to knock off his hat as he is diving through an almost closed door, and reaches back just in time to snatch the hat before the door closes.

Who knows, Ford may have attempted it, and the scene looked better on a take that Armstrong did. Ford does have a bad back. I know that with my bad back, I wouldn't be all that limber getting through that low of an opening, and Ford is almost as tall as me.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:53 pm

Don't forget, they were forced to use Vic for a lot of scenes because Harrison was injured and out of action. In many instances they later plugged in close-ups of Harrison to give the impression that it was him all along when it actually wasn't.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:02 pm

agent5 wrote:

You know, I must say that in that picture Vic Armstrong almost looks indistinguishable from Ford! But then again, they don't call 'em stunt doubles for nothing...

Out of curiousity, was Vic Armstrong featured in any publicity stills for Indiana Jones? I seem to remember a couple of pictures where Indy didn't really look like Ford for some reason... The famous 'whipping' publicity still being one of them.

But it is really cool that nobody actually knew about that all this time! At least none of the fans... even the die-hard gearheads!

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:07 pm

whiskyman wrote:Don't forget, they were forced to use Vic for a lot of scenes because Harrison was injured and out of action. In many instances they later plugged in close-ups of Harrison to give the impression that it was him all along when it actually wasn't.

Exactly, he did get injured pretty good in Raiders and ToD.

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:23 pm

Exactly, he did get injured pretty good in Raiders and ToD.

Forgive my ignorance, ROTLA is my alltime favorite film but what caused the injuries, on that movie and TOD? Were they on set? I've seen the documentaries from the DVD but that was ages ago. I cannot recall hearing about his problems on set except that he was a tad aggresive punching the stunt doubles.

If anyone can give info on this I would really appreciate it.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:28 pm

It's well known that Ford injured his back pretty severly during the shooting of TOD and that they got Vic to do a lot of scenes in his stead. I can't remember the exact details but I think Ford mentioned riding the elephant and then doing that roll with the Thuggee assasin.

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:29 pm

Thanks for the info, if anyone has a link to that kind of info I would really appriciate it.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:30 pm

They discuss it on the DVD during the making of TOD

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:31 pm

Spot on! That was it.
It's all on the documentary DVD aswell...

Papaya extract treatment, was it?

Regards,
Swindiana

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:39 pm

Castor Dioscuri wrote:You know, I must say that in that picture Vic Armstrong almost looks indistinguishable from Ford! But then again, they don't call 'em stunt doubles for nothing...

I recall reading something from a Ford interview that his own young son got cunfused by Armstrong's similarity to Ford during Crusade, and the kid started calling Armstraong his "Daddy 2" or something.

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:42 pm

Thanks whiskyman, its been quite some time since I've seen that on the DVD. I'll be watching that tonight.

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:19 pm

well, in filming ROTLA, the Flying Wing rolled up his leg, buggering up his knee and cartilage, and in ToD, riding the elephant really did a number on his back that culminated when he was fighting the Thuggee assasin in his room at Pankot. When he flipped the Thuggee over his back, according to Spielberg, HF let out a horrific yelp!

it was this back injury that had him on a cot outside of frame between takes, and led to him being airlifted to London for some exprimental Papaya treatment that worked wonders...but while he was out of commission, A LOT of ToD was filmed with the use of the doubles, especially scenes in the temple itself, and, as mentioned, the HF close-ups were added in later.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:42 pm

It's a little known secret that they almost changed the film title to Temple of Doubles.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:24 pm

I don't think I'll ever watch that movie the same way again...

Ripper · Post by **Ripper** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:31 pm

I don't think I'll ever watch that movie the same way again...

......upside down this time ? How did you watch it before ??

Indywannabe · Post by **Indywannabe** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:05 pm

Swindiana wrote:
Papaya extract treatment, was it?

Thats right Swindy, it really worked wonders for Harrisons back

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:10 pm

Ripper wrote:
I don't think I'll ever watch that movie the same way again...
......upside down this time ? How did you watch it before ??

LOL!

But seriously, I didn't know that most of the film was filmed with stunt doubles, and Ford only came back for insert reshoots...