Hats - Our Faithful Friends...

fatwoul · Post by **fatwoul** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:41 am

OK, I hope I won't get accused of spamtardery by starting another thread so soon, but I have some questions for the hatters on the forum, and so far I haven't found it elsewhere on here:

Have felt hats ever been made of fur from other animals, besides sheep, rabbits and beavers?

One of the first comments I had when I got here was that you can tell a fur felt hat because it smells like wet dog. Well, why not dog? Or cat? Or any furry animal?

Over the years, there have been various ideas for ways to pay tribute to your pet - making little felted animals from their molted fur, for example. But has anybody ever made a hat including fur from their dog(s)? We used to have two bassett hounds (I mentioned before) and you would not believe the amount of fur they shed over their 12 years. Collected together, I am pretty sure there would have been enough to make the sizeable cone needed to make a hat.

Maybe its a really stupid question, but the fur seemed to serve the dogs very well, and even now - 2 years after they died - we are finding large amounts of the fur, so obviously it is pretty durable.

It might also be a nice way to remember a pet; even when the dog has gone, you can still take them on walks.

I'm being flippant, but the question is genuine. Why not other animals?

Captain Ron Solo · Post by **Captain Ron Solo** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:41 pm

I could see that. I don't think cat fur is too dissimilar to rabbit. Additionally, I think fur from a lab might have some of the same water repellent traits as beaver. Between my lab and the two cats we have, I am certain I could come up with enough fur to make a nice blended felt.
Why not otters? Or platypi in Australia? That could be the new felt of choice for Akubras.

Ron

Jaredraptor · Post by **Jaredraptor** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:52 pm

Hm.......y'know, you probably COULD make a felt hat out of dog/cat/other furry animal's fur.....the question is, would you wanna be overt about it? I don't think you'd get many nice looks from people if you told them your hat was made from dog fur (unless, of course, you explained afterwards that the hat was a tribute to a dearly departed pet. But the initial reaction wouldn't be very nice, methinks).

fatwoul · Post by **fatwoul** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:06 pm

Jaredraptor wrote:Hm.......y'know, you probably COULD make a felt hat out of dog/cat/other furry animal's fur.....the question is, would you wanna be overt about it? I don't think you'd get many nice looks from people if you told them your hat was made from dog fur (unless, of course, you explained afterwards that the hat was a tribute to a dearly departed pet. But the initial reaction wouldn't be very nice, methinks).

That's true. I think maybe that would need to be a quiet tribute.

But what I was mostly getting at was that dogs shed their fur constantly, and the fur produced by a dog during its 10-12 year lifetime, if collected with a brush, would probably amount to sackfulls. No dead dogs involved, and a lot of fur.

PLUS if a hat already smelled like the dog, he/she might be less inclined to rip said hat to pieces.

indy89 · Post by **indy89** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:03 pm

platypi in Australia

My girlfriend is Australian, she hates it when Australian animals are killed for their fur, leather, etc.. She got made at me when I told that I wanted a whip made of kangaroo hide. Anyway, back on topic...

even when the dog has gone, you can still take them on walks.

I don't think I would want a dead dog on my head.

Captain Ron Solo · Post by **Captain Ron Solo** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:18 pm

Isn't the kangaroo to Australians what the cow is to Americans? They eat the meat, right? Rooburgers? Why let all that great skin go to waste?

Yeah, even if it made a great felt, I don't know that I would want to memorialize my best friend by making a fedora out of his fur. Maybe a rug, though.

Ron

fatwoul · Post by **fatwoul** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:27 pm

But seriously, the stuff about pets was mostly a joke. Really, I was interested in whether other wild animals ever get used for hats. I mean, if beavers, why not otters? What about bear? Is bear fur more coarse than beaver? I always imagined them to be kinda similar.

Some somewhere else on here said about how beavers are considered differently in the US than in other places. I know they're often considered to be a pest. So what about other unprotected pests like raccoons or possums?

indy89 · Post by **indy89** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:56 pm

why not otters?

'Cause that's just flippin' wrong, man. I love otters! Come on, do you really want this thing to get killed so you can have a hat made out of it?

I know I wouldn't. They're too cute.

fatwoul · Post by **fatwoul** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:39 pm

Indeed. I remain curious, however, as to whether other animals have ever been used in the felting process for hats, and what qualities of rabbit and beaver fur have caused the process to evolve to using them.

Captain Ron Solo · Post by **Captain Ron Solo** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:45 pm

I'm really surprised that Michaelson or Fedora haven't chimed in with a very practical reason why felts have been limited to these animals.

I'm sure it will make perfect sense when we hear it.

Ron

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:21 pm

I know various other furs have been udes for womens hats, but apart from wool, rabbit, nurtia, and beaver, I'm not sure what other animals have been used for mens hat felts.

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:29 pm

I think I have read about mink and sable as being used for felt. We have had several Indy hats sold in a beaver/nutria blend.

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:34 pm

Below is a link I found about beaver felt. It gives the history and details how the felt is used and formed. After reading this I'd assume the reason other furs are not used is because the ones already in use are the best for their job.

Considering how long they have been using beaver and the difficulties associated with obtaining it, and since it was almost ran into extinction in Europe, I'd be hard pressed to believe that almost every other animal with a hide hasn't been tried. It explains why Beaver is so high in price compared to rabbit.

http://www.whiteoak.org/learning/furhat.htm

Tycoonman · Post by **Tycoonman** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:36 pm

Stetson uses buffalo/bison fur felt for some of their hats. I would say judging by the texture it is only one grade above a wool hat. It's very coarse and it tapers very quickly once it gets wet.

http://www.cabelas.com/spodw-1/0034101.shtml

Tycoonman

fatwoul · Post by **fatwoul** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:25 pm

Tycoonman wrote:Stetson uses buffalo/bison fur felt for some of their hats. I would say judging by the texture it is only one grade above a wool hat. It's very coarse and it tapers very quickly once it gets wet.

http://www.cabelas.com/spodw-1/0034101.shtml

Tycoonman

Thanks, that's the kind of thing I was talking about.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:47 pm

Tycoonman wrote:Stetson uses buffalo/bison fur felt for some of their hats. I would say judging by the texture it is only one grade above a wool hat. It's very coarse and it tapers very quickly once it gets wet.

http://www.cabelas.com/spodw-1/0034101.shtml

Tycoonman

So, basically, modern Stetsons are a bunch of bull?

I had head of mink and sable being used in hats, but bison is a new one to me. What about camel hair?

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:08 pm

What about camel hair?

The felt comes from the undercoat of an animal's hair. Once the top hair is removed the soft undercoat is what is collected to make the felt. I'm not sure a camel would have that since most undercoats come from animals needing extra lining for warmth.

Besides, have you ever been next to a camel? Nasty animals.

edit- I was wrong they do have an soft undercoat...

wanderer · Post by **wanderer** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:46 am

You ca use many different furs tio felting, with vatying success I've seen items felted (not hats, though) made from 50:50 wool and dog, so it should be doable. And when it comed to at least some dogs you can seasonally obtain a lot of fur with no harm to the animal.

Tycoonman · Post by **Tycoonman** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:44 am

There is also a polyester felted material, it is commonly known as "Velt". Dorfman Pacific used to make children's Indiana Jones hats out of this material, but have been discontinued. They have since began making the children's hats out of an extremely low grade wool felt.

Tycoonman

fatwoul · Post by **fatwoul** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:17 am

I asked a hatter, and they said "tradition". That *****. Surely there has to be a real reason why rabbit and beaver are particularly popular.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:40 am

Well, the availability of rabbit fur has ALWAYS been high, as rabbits breed like, well, rabbits! It's plentiful, easy to work with, and available anywhere in the world. A natural, cheap, easily obtainable fur for hat production.

Beaver has always been reknown for it's duribility, water resistance, and levels of 'style' that can be achieved during pouncing, as some hats can be left with the fur long (top hats of the Victorian era were made this way, as the longish haired felt was quite popular with the upper gentry), and the more you pounced it, the smoother the surface became.

It was also quite easily obtained as though beaver don't breed as quickly as rabbits, they DO breed quickly. They were also considered (still are, by the way) considered vermin (as has been pointed out, flat tailed rats!

) and continue to block water ways and natural flowing streams. Harvesting wild beaver took care of two needs at the time....clean, clear flowing water to communities, and beaver hats.

Beaver felt is now obtained from farm raised animals, as are rabbits (with the exception of rabbit fur hats made by Akubra, that uses the fur of Australian jack rabbits, which is a coarser fur, and more suited for an outdoors type use hat. That's why the Akubras are tough as nails).

I'm not sure this gave you any definitive answer, but it's how I've always understood the choices made by hatters in history to the standard use of rabbit and beaver fur for hats.

Regards! Michaelson