Question about Jacket Hem

skywlkr · Post by **skywlkr** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:03 pm

I've had my uswings vintage cow for a month now and it fits better than when I got it. However, I noticed one little thing that bugs me. I guess as the jacket loosened with wear the cotton liner must have stretched or something and has made the hem under the left outer pocket sag (as in pic http://home.earthlink.net/~skywlkrinc/jacket.jpg ) I was wondering if this has happened to anyone before and if there is an easy way to fix it short of ripping the hem and restitching it?

I thought of putting some glue in a hypodermic needle and poking it thru the lining and gluing the leather together from the inside. If this is a good idea, then what kind of glue should I use to glue leather that (a.) won't ruin it and (b.) won't come unglued.

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

-Luke

Michigan Smith · Post by **Michigan Smith** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:49 pm

Yes, it needs to be reglued. I'd open the liner inside the sleeve (you should be able to tell where it was finished/stitched last) to access the inside of the hem. I've used glue specifically for leather/vinyl I got at the sewing supply store (can't recall exact brand or name), just ask clerk.

Rixter · Post by **Rixter** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:49 pm

Howdy Luke,

It sounds as though you purchased it directly from USWings, if this is correct I definitely would place a call to customer service before you try doing any repairs yourself and see what they say. What you describe really shouldn't happen after only a month of normal wear, and whether it's easy to fix or not, it really should not be YOUR problem. I have never experienced any lining problems on my VIP Indy or any of my other USWings jackets, except the seemingly unavoidable customary problems after several years of wear on one of my older A-2s.

skywlkr · Post by **skywlkr** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 10:20 pm

Rixter wrote:Howdy Luke,

It sounds as though you purchased it directly from USWings, if this is correct I definitely would place a call to customer service before you try doing any repairs yourself and see what they say. What you describe really shouldn't happen after only a month of normal wear, and whether it's easy to fix or not, it really should not be YOUR problem. I have never experienced any lining problems on my VIP Indy or any of my other USWings jackets, except the seemingly unavoidable customary problems after several years of wear on one of my older A-2s.

The thing with that is that I would probably have to ship it back and be without the jacket for a while. I've grown attatched to it.

Indydawg · Post by **Indydawg** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 11:10 pm

I can tell you that unless I was personally schooled in doing such operations on your jacket as you are describing, I'd bite the bullet and "be without my jacket for awhile" to make sure that any "problems" got fixed correctly by the maker of the jacket.

That being said, what you're experiencing is something that is commong to ALL the jackets. The linings of the best jackets have a little extra "play" built into them for a reason. When the jacket is worn awhile, that lining will loosen up some to keep stress off the seams of the lining. I had a Wested once that was "snug"...well, it kept tearing at the seams along the lining stitching because of it. If what you're describing is just a little "sagging" of the lining in places, I can tell you from experience that is a GOOD thing because it means your jacket's lining is not going to tear along those seams.

Take that for what it's worth, though, and if you doubt it, give Sarge a hollar at info@uswings.com and ask him personally what to do about it. I know if you go about trying to alter it yourself and something goes wrong, he'll be much LESS likely to try and help afterwards.

Later!
Indydawg

skywlkr · Post by **skywlkr** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 12:22 am

I've given Sarge a holler already and am waiting to hear what he says.
I just thought I could save time by maybe poking a hypodermic needle
thru the seam between the leather and the cotton lining and glueing the
two sides of the folded leather together. Seemed like a good idea to me,
but I thought I'd throw the idea to all you who have been gearheads
longer than myself.

FLATHEAD · Post by **FLATHEAD** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 7:35 am

Skywlkrinc:

I would do as Indydawg said and send the jacket back. If you
do what you are saying, and stick a needle in the jacket with
glue, and god forbid, you screw something up, you will never
be able to return the jacket! Its always safer to have the people
who made your jacket fix your jacket.

As a matter of fact, your jacket was most probably made by
Cooper, because Sarge has just started to make the jackets
himself, and you will be sending it back to Cooper. That is what
Sarge is going to tell you. Its not expensive to send it back, and
the turn around time is very fast.

I had to have the sleeves on my Old Cow wings jacket shortened
when I first got it, and Sarge told me to send it back to Cooper.
From the time I mailed the jacket back to Cooper, to the time I
had the jacket back in my hands was only two weeks. Thats
pretty fast! Since Coopers is based in New Jersey, you don't
have to worry about sending the jacket out of the country.

Also, to Indydawg:

I think the problem with this jackets hem is not the lining stretching
but the glue that holds the leather hem together at the bottom
hem of the jacket has come loose. You can see in the picture
that the leather has actually started to droop past the bottom
of where the hem was. You can see the line from the fold of
the leather from the front of the jacket. This means the extra
leather that is folded up under the inside of the jacket has started
to drop down. This is not just a stretching thing. This is a defect
in the workmanship of the jacket and should be fixed before it
gets worse. What will happen over time is that the rest of the
leather will work its way loose, and drop down making the hem
look very bad.

Skywlkrinc, because of this fact, you should get the jacket fixed
by the manufacturer. They will take the jacket hem apart and fix
the ENTIRE hem, not just the small portion that looks bad now.
If you do it yourself, you may have to do more of this repairing
soon after you try to fix the bad spot.

I would think its worth the piece of mind to get it fixed right the
first time, and not have to worry about it in the future.

Flathead

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 7:56 am

FLATHEAD wrote: As a matter of fact, your jacket was most probably made by
Cooper, because Sarge has just started to make the jackets
himself, and you will be sending it back to Cooper. That is what
Sarge is going to tell you. Its not expensive to send it back, and
the turn around time is very fast.

Actually, Sarge no longer uses Cooper. USWings now does the alterations in house in Ohio. It would probably still be a pretty quick turn around.

Indydawg · Post by **Indydawg** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 8:16 am

But I'm looking at my FS goatskin Expedition right now and the lining is doing the same thing as described here-but it isn't due to any "defect"....the lining is supposed to be loose as the jacket wears in...otherwise you've got leather relaxing around a snug lining-that would cause the leather to bunch up AND the lining to have undue stress put on it.

And ITG is right...the jacket would go back to Sarge now....lots of problems with Cooper has resulted in him moving his operation "in house" at the place in Stow.

Later!
Indydawg

FLATHEAD · Post by **FLATHEAD** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:18 am

Indydawg:

Skywlkrinc is not refering to the lining. If you look at
his picture, its the leather that is drooping, not just the
lining. On my Old Cow Indy jacket, you can feel that the leather
portion of the hem is folded over and glued together.
Then the lining is attached to that by either more glue
or it may be stitched to the folded part of the leather hem.
There is indeed a little extra lining in there to compensate
for when you move around. My lining hangs down some,
but not past the bottom hem of the jacket. You can see and
feel where the lining is attached to the leather hem up about
two inches from the very bottom of the jacket.

If the leather part of the jacket is starting to sage, its
not the fact the the lining has stretched. If the lining
stretches, then just the lining will droop down, not the
leather. This is indeed a defect of the way the leather
hem has been made. Its probably just that the glue was
never applied in any type of quantity in this location.

The sleeves are made the same way. Ask Michigan Smith.
He re-did his sleeves. The bottom hem is made the same
way as the sleeves.

I know that Sarge is now doing his business "in house"
but because the jackets that have sold up until recently were
all made by Cooper, he will probably tell you to send
them back there until he starts to make his own jackets.
But the only way to know that for sure is to ask him. Its
still better to let the jacket manufacturer do any repairs
to the garment if there is a problem with them. I don't
think Sarge has started to sell his own, in-house made
jackets yet, so he may not want to try to fix someone
elses problems.

Flathead

junior · Post by **junior** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:25 am

Send it back my man. They should have glued it like the ends of the sleeves. Your lining isn't the problem. Once they glue the leathers together so it stays permantly together, this problem will not be back.

junior

Indydawg · Post by **Indydawg** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:39 am

Ok..well, then I stand corrected.

I'd still not attempt anything like what he's describing myself...and there's only one way to find out if Sarge would take the jacket back himself and that's to ask....can't hurt.

Later.
Indydawg

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 11:05 am

What is up with the pocket flaps? The scalloping looks different - the flaps look pointier. is it just a camera trick?

Indydawg · Post by **Indydawg** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 11:17 am

I just TOTALLY missed that picture link....I can see what you're talking about now....and if you've got a guy in your area who does shoe repair and that sort of thing, then I would take it to him and let him fix this....it looks like it would be a pretty easy fix.

Sheesh....I must REALLY getting tired of reading students' research papers if I missed something like that....sorry.

But that's a fantastic looking jacket, by the way....and the pocket flaps are like that on some of the jackets.....more like the way they cut their A2's pocket flaps.

Later!
Indydawg

skywlkr · Post by **skywlkr** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 12:13 am

I believe my jacket was made in shop at uswings. From what I've read, the Cooper-made jackets say Cooper on the tag somewhere and mine does not say this at all anywhere on the jacket.

skywlkr · Post by **skywlkr** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 7:40 pm

Sarge has told me that I can send my jacket back and get it repaired or replaced, my choice, at no cost. I'm thinking about getting it replaced and maybe paying the difference and getting the large long size. Mine is large regular and I think it would be cool if the legnth were a bit longer.

Does anyone know the legnth difference between the USWings large and large long? I've emailed Sarge, but it's the weekend and I would expect to not hear from him until Monday and I'd like to know now if any of you know the difference. I'm cursed with being the type of person who thinks too much and my mind would be calmed if I knew.

Luke

Michigan Smith · Post by **Michigan Smith** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 11:00 pm

My experience with USW reg vs long is 2" longer in body, 1" longer in sleeves. I had a Med Long I sent back, it measured 25" sleeve, shoulder to cuff, and 28" back, collar base to bottom hem.

skywlkr · Post by **skywlkr** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 11:07 pm

If that's actually what the difference is, I think I'll see if Sarge will let me exchange for a large long if I pay the difference, since two inches in the body and one inch in the sleeves more than what I have would be perfect.

skywlkr · Post by **skywlkr** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:23 pm

Well, I just recieved my new vintage cow jacket, three weeks after I returned the one with the lagging hem (I didn't send it back right away). Guess what.....this new jacket is worse, right out of the box. It has the same sagging hem problem on the body of the jacket, and the cuffs of the sleeves do the same thing. It's obvious that the cuff hems aren't glued together internally at all. I just fired off an email to the Sarge. We'll see what he says, but I'm considering a refund followed by a wested vintage cow order.

Luke

Rixter · Post by **Rixter** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 10:45 pm

Whenever I've had a problem with a jacket I've purchased from USWings, I've left my phone number in my email, and hours available, and Sarge has always called me back. He's always most obliging and makes sure the problem is taken care of, and occasionally even let's me get in a word or two.

skywlkr · Post by **skywlkr** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 11:53 pm

I don't know. This is the third jacket I'll be returning to uswings. The first one was too small, but was the size Sarge recommended after I gave him my measurements. The second jacket is the reason this thread was started, and now this jacket. I think Sarge is really helpful and I know he wants to do anything to make his customers happy, but I'm starting to think I wasn't meant to have a uswings Indy jacket.
In baseball you get three strikes and then you're out.
In California you get three felony arrests and then you're in prison the rest of your life.
Perhaps in Indy jackets you get three chances then you change vendors.

Luke

Tollan · Post by **Tollan** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 8:39 am

I have two points to add. firstly, wested actaully sews up the hem, eliminating this problem altogether. Secondly, according to jerry at wested, you CAN actually iron leather BUT you must put a tea-towel or similar material between the iron and the leather... otherwisie you will RUIN the leather. Bearing this in mind, I tried it out on the hem of my USW vintage cow hem, wich was sagging. A nice hard iron all the way round the hem and I have not had a problem since (about 4 moths)!

Cheers,
Tollan

skywlkr · Post by **skywlkr** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:23 pm

I got a reply from uswings and now I'm trying to decide whether I'm going to try a fourth try at uswings or get a refund and order a wested. I'm leaning towards the wested route.

p.s.- What's a tea-towel??

Luke

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:15 pm

It's a cloth napkin. Regards. Michaelson

Indydawg · Post by **Indydawg** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:30 pm

Again, I re-iterate that in my experiences with him, if he's given the opportunity to fix the problem, he'll fix it.

As a counter to your "the grass is greener" theory of jacket vendors here, I went 'round and 'round with Peter at Wested for over a year sending jackets back, selling jackets, and getting new ones made, etc, trying to get one that was acceptable to me. Peter was ALWAYS very accomodating and eventually I ended up with an awesome jacket that both he and I were pleased with.

The Wings jacket is such a great overall jacket, that I really think you should give him the chance to make it right. But that's just me. I'm not the one getting frustrated at continuing to spend money and not getting what you want....

Just the flip side of the coin, so to speak...
Later!
Indydawg

skywlkr · Post by **skywlkr** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 4:48 pm

OK, I've made my decision. I'm going to give uswings one more chance with this jacket before I give up and go to wested. If the uswings jacket works out this time then I'll wait a year or so and get a wested in black leather.

Luke

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 7:15 am

Indydawg wrote:The Wings jacket is such a great overall jacket, that I really think you should give him the chance to make it right. But that's just me.

And that buttery-soft Wings goatskin---it has become a benchmark/baseline for which I make a lot of comparisons. That is a really nice leather. That FS deerskin almost makes the grade for softness but..... oops. getting off topic.

Indydawg · Post by **Indydawg** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 9:49 am

Ahhh, come on now, Joe....as much as you're talkin' about liking that jacket, you KNOW you aren't going to be able to give it up when your Wested gets here. You might as well go ahead and start saving up the money for it

!!!

Later!
Indydawg

PS-Good decision, Skywalker! Sarge will fix you up, man, and you'll be extremely happy with the jacket you end up with. I know I've got one that there's only ONE other person in this world who I would want to have it but me. But as he and I have already been 'round the bend with it, I guess he won't be gettin' it anytime soon. Which is alright, 'cause I've just fixed him up with a GREAT deal on another jacket....

Anywho..you won't be disappointed when it's all said and done.

skywlkr · Post by **skywlkr** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 8:10 pm

Let's Hope so.

Luke

Question about Jacket Hem

Question about Jacket Hem

Speaking strictly from the academic standpoint

Sagging lining...

Re: Sagging lining...

Yeah...

Hem

Hmmm..

Oops....

Just got my new jacket

Well, as a constant advocate for Sarge

Re: Well, as a constant advocate for Sarge

LOL...