Todd's "NEW" Lambskin Jacket

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:20 am

That is one GORGOUS jacket, G-MANN!!

Great job Todd!!

HIGH regards! Michaelson

Dr._J · Post by **Dr._J** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:27 am

Great jacket! G-Mann, did you wet the jacket all the way through and then wear it or did you kind of drizzle the water over the top surface? Thanks.

Regards, Dr. J

G-MANN · Post by **G-MANN** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:28 am

Garden hose sprayer on the outer shell only.

G-MANN

Dr._J · Post by **Dr._J** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:42 am

And then you wore it around while wet? How long?

Regards, Dr. J

Technonut · Post by **Technonut** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:49 am

Sweet jacket G-MANN...

I really like the lambskin...

G-MANN · Post by **G-MANN** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:11 pm

Dr._J wrote:And then you wore it around while wet? How long?

Regards, Dr. J

Yessir wore it wet, actually more like damp for about 2 hours.

G-MANN

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:40 pm

g-mann, that looks great! the first pics had that 'new wested'ish look but its amazing how fast you can distress the hide. great work my friend.

cheers

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:28 pm

I guess the proof of the 'pudding' is that if G-MANN was so successful in his wetting down with a hose, then just wearing the jacket for a couple of yours...you'll have the exact same results should you get caught in a quick rainstorm when out and about with this jacket.

Your choice, pre-distressed or natural distressing, all possible in one afternoon!

Neat!

Regards! Michaelson

orb · Post by **orb** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:25 pm

Another god like jacket

. What should I buy know Cowhide or Lambskin?

Decisions Decisions

Much regards

orb

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:48 pm

I like the color of Todd's lamb better than his cowhide.... The cow seems too reddish to me... The lamb looks about perfect.

C3

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:56 pm

Wow! Impressive looking jacket!

$\:D/$

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:04 pm

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, nice lookin jacket G-MANN, I've been waiting to see a Todds Lamb, should be getting mine real soon. $\:D/$ $\:D/$

Michealson will be pleased to hear that this will have to distress naturaly, no sand paper or Acetone for my new jacket.

Can't wait.

Croft

Bowie · Post by **Bowie** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:14 pm

Sweet jacket G-MANN!! I too have been waiting to see the Lambskin. I'm sold, in fact I just sent Todd a PM to get an order going

$\:D/$

Mountaineer Lasher · Post by **Mountaineer Lasher** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:49 pm

Yeah, I'm sold. I'm glad I ordered mine in lamb. I was told that due to some vacationing seamstresses, I should have mine around the beginning of August. Well, it's shorter than the wait for my AB.

djd · Post by **djd** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:17 am

Nice! My cow hide Todd should be here any day now....

Lao Feng · Post by **Lao Feng** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:26 am

Great jacket!!!

Question: Does the jacket shrink after you wet it?

Dr.Seuss · Post by **Dr.Seuss** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:16 am

Another exemplary creation from Todd's workshop! Cannot wait for my cowhide to hit the mailbox.

Sincerely,

Technonut · Post by **Technonut** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:59 am

I gave my cowhide the "hot water treatment" last night.. I used very hot tap water and soaked the jacket with a sponge. I then wore it until dry...

It really brought out some character.

Here are a couple of pics to compare the wetted cowhide to the lambskin:

G-MANN · Post by **G-MANN** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:19 am

Mine did not shrink at all. I did not soak the jacket but gave it a quick spray with cold water. Just enough to wet the outer shell of the jacket. Like being caught in the rain for a few moments. That was it.

Cheers,
G-MANN

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:29 pm

You know, I was trying to forget about the fact that I'm waiting for mine... It was working until I saw this thread!

hoose55 · Post by **hoose55** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:52 am

Sweet Julia Child, He certainly cooks up a great jacket! Enjoy that it looks great! How much are those, anyway?
J-

davyjones007 · Post by **davyjones007** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:33 am

G-mann, those sleeves are perfect. I should try mixing washing car in jacket and distressing all in one day.

And Todd- WOW, that is a great jacket. The color of the lamb looks sooo sweeeeet!

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:52 am

Hi G-MANN, nice jacket! Can I ask if the side sliders holds well? And what's the width and thickness of the side straps? Just curious
Thanks

PETER · Post by **PETER** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:06 am

Is Todd God? Are you all blind?
I see a jacket with a wavy wonky zip with half an inch of selvage showing . Pockets the bottoms of which are crooked and curved and side straps with very unauthentic buckles. Otherwise for an unauthorised copy not bad.
When I make mistakes like that I am roasted so am I the only one who sees this?
This is not sour grapes just an honest observation.
Cheers
Peter

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:22 am

Here's a question I forgot to ask before and maybe someone here can answer it.

Do to the fact that Todd's jacket seems to distress quicker and easier than some of the other jackets does that mean the actual "life" of the jacket itself will last less than something that is thicker and doesn't "ware down" as fast?

I guess what I'm looking at is the longevity of the item really over how "quickly" it breaks down to look like an item that technically was a "costume piece" for a movie.

Yes, I am aware some of the longevity of the jacket goes to how well you take care of it but there are still things that happen at the "factory level" that can effect how long the item holds up.

I know some of us seem to want to own ten of everything but as far as someone like myself who's on a budget of sorts I'm not in dire need of another jacket. I think Todd's jacket looks great and I own a Wested and I love it so I'm not taking anyones side. This is just a consumer question really.

If I'm going to spend X amount of dollars I don't want it falling a part after a short period of time if I go to distress it.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:44 am

Pitfall,

I wondered the same thing, as I am concerned about longevity, too. But what we're seeing here is nothing but the removal of a slight amount of finish and the shaping of the leather. There is no disintegration involved or actual wear. The leather is otherwise unchanged from it's new state. It just LOOKS like it has 100,000 miles on it.

Peter, you forgot to mention dodgy side straps!

Kaplan · Post by **Kaplan** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:00 pm

Todd and Peter, I have had the pleasure of talking to both of you on the phone several times. I enjoy the products that I have purchased from both of you. I think you are both gentlemen and offer a great service to us.

HOWEVER, If Peter had listened to the many years of fan advice more closely and had made a better effort in creating a screen accurate jacket, Todd wouldn't have created this offering at all. THERE WOULD BE NO REASON TO ARGUE OR MAKE ACCUSATIONS.

There is a part of the market that you (Peter) refused to cater to. Customers gave you plenty of chances. (how long have the commonly accepted specs been out? A year now?

)

Sure you do custom work, but many of us don't need custom work. All we want is an Indy jacket. We don't want to look like a bellhop. You could have gotten all of the business. You could have captured the entire market. You could have kept my business. You still have a chance to get it back!
My question to Peter is:
If Todd's workmanship is so shoddy, surely a veteran like you can easily do what he is doing. Right?

COLLAR MEETS STORMFLAP at HALF-WAY POINT
ZIPPER GOES ALL THE WAY DOWN
** YOKE SEAM HIGHER THAN ARM SEEM**
SCALLOPED POCKETS
NO LEATHER FACINGS
etc.

We are all interested in seeing your new offering. Just remember, a portion of your market isn't going to be satisfied with a compromise.

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:07 pm

Puppetboy wrote:Pitfall,

I wondered the same thing, as I am concerned about longevity, too. But what we're seeing here is nothing but the removal of a slight amount of finish and the shaping of the leather. There is no disintegration involved or actual wear. The leather is otherwise unchanged from it's new state. It just LOOKS like it has 100,000 miles on it.

Cool.

Thanks for answering my question Todd. I appreciate it.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:12 pm

PETER wrote:Is Todd God? Are you all blind?
I see a jacket with a wavy wonky zip with half an inch of selvage showing . Pockets the bottoms of which are crooked and curved and side straps with very unauthentic buckles. Otherwise for an unauthorised copy not bad.
When I make mistakes like that I am roasted so am I the only one who sees this?
This is not sour grapes just an honest observation.
Cheers
Peter

Peter,
Cool your jets a little, my man. I agree with you about the zipper selvage, but when my brand new Wested arrived - folded as it must be in shipping - the zipper was just as "wavy wonky". I do not see the bad pocket lines, so yes - I must be blind. As for the "unauthentic buckles", most of us don't get authenic buckles from you when we specifically ask, so don't go there.

Do you get roasted for your mistakes; absolutely. But by most accounts, it's a bit of a pain to get you to admit the error and fix it... and it costs the customer quite a bit, too. Todd would have simply said "send it back and I'll take care of it." It sounds to me like that is much of the reason that you get "roasted" while he does not.
Plus, Kaplan makes a good point. Maybe your notes tell you that your design is right and others are wrong... but who knows what happened to those jackets after the design stage? No two Westeds, even "off-the-rack", are the same. Then you have hollywood's tendancy of never leaving well enough alone. So what we fans see on the screen does not match what you're saying is authentic. We asked for it. For whatever reason (legitimate or otherwise), you didn't deliver.

What will cost you is your overly harsh phrasing when you critique Todd's jacket. Edit yourself a little and be gentlemanly. You don't see HJ's president or Fedora or PeterBros, etc. skewering each others version of the Indy hat. There's room for both of you here, and some people just like other people's take on the jacket. Most would rather have a true Wested, but they might think twice if they start seeing you as a coarse crab.

I'm sorry if I have become a little coarse myself, but I have really started to become irritated by some of the ungentlemanly conduct that pops up in certain topics, like this one. I'm also tired of everyone pretending that we the demanding customers (that's an admission, not sarcasm) don't bend over backwards for our precious vendors because we're afraid of losing them! How many mistakes, bad service experiences, unwarranted delays, and unneccessary expenses have customers overlooked for the sake of this hobby and the sake of being friends as much as consumers? I've done it on occassion. But when it becomes the norm, it bothers me.

So, Peter, please stop examining Todd's jacket so closely and start looking at your own with the same sharp eye. Worry about what Wested is doing, not what's going on with some "unauthorized copy."

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:37 pm

In Peter's defense, he has changed quite a bit of his designs based on what fans have asked for over the years. Many times those changes have been wrong which was not his fault, but the fault of some overzealous members who saw the changes as cannon and turned out not to be.

However, the tone of Peter's comments are a bit harsh here and I would hope he would refrain from that in the future.

In defense of Peter's customers, one of which I am and will continue to be, Wested has been letting jackets go out the door without checking them against the order forms which leads to people getting jackets they did not ask for. As pointed out, this is frustrating as a customer and costs more time and money, not only for the customer, but for Wested as well.

Sure, accidents happen and that is to be expected, but most of the time it's just simple things like someone asking for rectagular hardware and instead getting sliders, or asking for gussets and not getting them. Stuff that seems straight forward.

Peter, I wish you would just listen to us and have someone make sure the jackets have all the correct mod's that were placed on the order sheet BEFORE they are shipped off. I just can't see how that cannot benefit everyone. Wested and the customer.

G-MANN · Post by **G-MANN** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:33 pm

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:45 pm

Although Todd's jackets are gradually looking better, (and G-Mann's is by far the best looking example). To my eyes it still looks like wish list of parts rather than a cohesive jacket. It also suffers from the Elvis collar effect. (no I'm not talking about the collar on Todds jackets) The Elvis collar effect describes how Elvis' collars got bigger and bigger as he got older and older, there are a couple of aspects of the Todd that exhibit this 'exaggeration' tendancy. For now I'll let you come to your own conclusions as to the culprit components/specifications.

The strap buckle arrangement is odd, it does not look like the arrangement of the buckle in that single shot on the Mercedes bonnet we are using for reference. If anything, to make this buckle work you need to reverse the loose end of the strap and the buckle so that the buckle is attached to the front part of the jacket, that way you thread the strap forward (under over under) and then back (over under) to get the right configuration. I don't subscribe to this theory, as I've not seen any images that prove this configuration conclusively.

Peter, you're letting your emotions run away with you my friend. Let him run with his project. Time will tell.

Abner1925 · Post by **Abner1925** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:11 pm

Kt Templar wrote:Although Todd's jackets are gradually looking better, (and G-Mann's is by far the best looking example). To my eyes it still looks like wish list of parts rather than a cohesive jacket. It also suffers from the Elvis collar effect. (no I'm not talking about the collar on Todds jackets) The Elvis collar effect describes how Elvis' collars got bigger and bigger as he got older and older, there are a couple of aspects of the Todd that exhibit this 'exaggeration' tendancy. For now I'll let you come to your own conclusions as to the culprit components/specifications.

The strap buckle arrangement is odd, it does not look like the arrangement of the buckle in that single shot on the Mercedes bonnet we are using for reference. If anything, to make this buckle work you need to reverse the loose end of the strap and the buckle so that the buckle is attached to the front part of the jacket, that way you thread the strap forward (under over under) and then back (over under) to get the right configuration. I don't subscribe to this theory, as I've not seen any images that prove this configuration conclusively.

Peter, you're letting your emotions run away with you my friend. Let him run with his project. Time will tell.

I have to say that I think the buckle thing that replaced the sliders looks terrible. However, as for being a combination of parts, and not a cohesive jacket? It sure looks like a great Raiders jacket to me, no matter what label is on the neck. That's all people seem to be asking for anyway.

JoelM · Post by **JoelM** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:32 pm

love it man

PETER · Post by **PETER** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:37 pm

The reason the inside facings were put on the jacket was to retain its shape on the front and stop it sagging, as on the last crusade jacket which had inside facings and strengthened pocket for the grail diary.
The problem is that with the inside facings the zip cannot go all the way to the bottom only to the bottom of the facing.
It is much easier and cheaper to make a jacket without facings, smaller zip and standard piped inside pocket as in the ROLA film, less leather and work but I could not guarantee it retaining its shape, so I never did it.
You must also bear in mind that up to 4 years ago at my factory in Enfield we were making for films, tv and promotional for Coca Cola, Budweiser etc and producing 200 garments a week plus a few Indyjackets as a sidleline for enthusiasts.
Now having sold Enfield although still making for films and TV and our shops our production is less than 50 jackets a week and I have more time to revue things and experiment more.
My point with Todd was not to have a go just that I could not see why the rave revues for what is nothing special, not a bad effort but with faults.
He is a nice man and good luck to him, but he is not a professional leather garment manufacturer as is proven by his costings(he says he is losing money) and I to have doubts about the longevity of this jacket.
I recently had a jacket returned to me after 2 years wear wanting a NEW replacement because the zip had broken and we use a heavy duty brass zip. Of course I only replaced the zip but this xxxx happens and it does get to you and costs.
Tomorrow I go to hospital for my eye operation so will be offline for a little while, so children try not to quabble in my absense.
Cheers Peter

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:40 pm

Best of luck on your operation, Peter. I know your eye has been bothering you since Christmas.

God's speed!

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:43 pm

The reason the inside facings were put on the jacket was to retain its shape on the front and stop it sagging, as on the last crusade jacket which had inside facings and strengthened pocket for the grail diary.

hey peter,

based on this thread, it seems that there were no facings on the LC jacket...now i'm confused

viewtopic.php?t=21913&highlight=lc+facings

perhaps there were a number of jackets used?

anyways, i am glad that you can spend more time on our orders as mine should be hitting your doorstep soon (via courier)

i trust your operation will go smoothly tomorrow and i wish you a speedy recovery.

we'll try not to quabble too much in your absense as michaelson has already warned us that he'd turn the plymouth around and take us straight home!

cheers,

gil[/quote]

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:52 pm

Indiana G wrote: we'll try not to quabble too much in your absense as michaelson has already warned us that he'd turn the plymouth around and take us straight home!

cheers,

gil

And I WILL TOO!! Stop kicking the back of the seat!

Regards! Michaelson

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:49 pm

Michaelson wrote:Best of luck on your operation, Peter. I know your eye has been bothering you since Christmas.

Probably from reading all the special requests we post here.

Good luck Peter.

Dr.Seuss · Post by **Dr.Seuss** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:39 am

Michaelson wrote:Best of luck on your operation, Peter. I know your eye has been bothering you since Christmas. Michaelson

Peter:

Kindly accept my seconding Michaelson. Best of luck.

I have been remiss for not mentioning the horsehide TOD jacket you made for me. SA or not, the fit and finish is unlike any jacket I have ever owned. With nothing more than a chat on the phone, and a list of measurements, you built something that fit as I asked. I wear it proudly. In this world, products and services too often fall far from our expectations. Your work helped renew my faith that quality still exits.

Did my jacket cost a bit more? Take a bit longer? Yes, Sir. But I am more than pleased with the result.

I also ordered a jacket from Todd. How can I do anything but support craftsman like yourself and Todd who are willing to stretch a bit and give foks, like myself with an "outside the box fit," the same product you offer to the "normal" sized customer.

From the reviews, I have no doubt Todd will also provide an outstanding product. Once I have both jackets in my hands; a comparison shall be forthcoming.

Sincerely,