The Keppler-Flightsuits jacket
Moderators: Indiana Jeff, Mike, Indydawg
The Keppler-Flightsuits jacket
I just got done talking to Lee Keppler and he gave me some details about his old jacket. (On a side note, it’s amazing how much information is available if you ask the right questions. Lee Keppler hardly comes around anymore, but Michaelson is here almost everyday). Anyway, I got to talking about taking some pictures of his last Flightsuits jacket from the mid 80’s (there are a few on the main Indygear site) and he told me that there already were some up on his site.
http://www.adventure-supply.com/propresearch.htm
He also gave me some details (some of which I already knew, and some of which I didn’t). Lee’s jacket was partially derived from measurements of a jacket in the Lucasfilm archives. Lee had a contact there in 85’ that gave him jacket measurements of one of the jackets. What Lee didn’t know at the time was that the measurements came from a TOD jacket. At the time Lee didn’t make the distinction between a Raiders and a TOD jacket. He thought they were one in the same. There are obvious discrepancies between the two jackets, a few of which Lee addressed, since he was really going for a Raiders jacket.
The first was the pockets. Lee was told (By his collaborators at Flightsuits) that the pocket dimensions that he had were not what was in the Raiders pictures being used for reference (and it was obvious, especially with the TOD “midget pockets”). Lee had them make the pockets bigger to more closely resemble the Raiders pockets. Lee’s jacket also had one piece gussets, since this is all you could make out from the “stars” photo.
If you look closely at this jacket (it was the last one that Lee had made before his relationship with the old “new” Flightsuits dissolved), there are other differences between it and what was sold to the public (it’s too bad we don’t have access to one). As Lee learned more, he changed the details, at least on his personal jacket. The first is that this jacket is made of horsehide and not goatskin (this had nothing to do with anything other than a personal preference). Lee’s personal jacket also has rectangular sliders instead of pronged buckles. The production jacket that sold had single pronged buckles. Although Lee had contracted for double-pronged buckles with his vendor (and that’s what they sent him as examples), they delivered single-pronged buckles. Their story was that they no longer made the double-pronged buckles. Lee went with what they sent him. Another variance is that Lee had this jacket modified later (after it was originally made) to have 5-inch slit-openings in the back instead of two-inch slit-openings (which is how FS produced them per TOD spec).
One of these jackets was also sent to Peter. You can see some details that were incorporated into the LC jacket like the inside pocket leather facing. Cheers
PS- The site calls the jacket the “Keppler” prototype and this is how the jacket has been referred to in the past. However, the jacket is actually one of the last ones that Flightsuits made before they parted ways with Lee.
PPS- Here's a pic from the main Indygear site of Lee when the jacket was new.
Edit - Lee wanted me to make it clear about what the “New Old Flightsuits” was. Basically Flightsuits was being sold to new owners in 86'. The new owners weren’t cooperative with regards to the manufacture of Lee’s Indy jacket. What ended up happening though was that Flightsuits was never sold. The same owners today own the company. Lee didn’t find this out until years later.
http://www.adventure-supply.com/propresearch.htm
He also gave me some details (some of which I already knew, and some of which I didn’t). Lee’s jacket was partially derived from measurements of a jacket in the Lucasfilm archives. Lee had a contact there in 85’ that gave him jacket measurements of one of the jackets. What Lee didn’t know at the time was that the measurements came from a TOD jacket. At the time Lee didn’t make the distinction between a Raiders and a TOD jacket. He thought they were one in the same. There are obvious discrepancies between the two jackets, a few of which Lee addressed, since he was really going for a Raiders jacket.
The first was the pockets. Lee was told (By his collaborators at Flightsuits) that the pocket dimensions that he had were not what was in the Raiders pictures being used for reference (and it was obvious, especially with the TOD “midget pockets”). Lee had them make the pockets bigger to more closely resemble the Raiders pockets. Lee’s jacket also had one piece gussets, since this is all you could make out from the “stars” photo.
If you look closely at this jacket (it was the last one that Lee had made before his relationship with the old “new” Flightsuits dissolved), there are other differences between it and what was sold to the public (it’s too bad we don’t have access to one). As Lee learned more, he changed the details, at least on his personal jacket. The first is that this jacket is made of horsehide and not goatskin (this had nothing to do with anything other than a personal preference). Lee’s personal jacket also has rectangular sliders instead of pronged buckles. The production jacket that sold had single pronged buckles. Although Lee had contracted for double-pronged buckles with his vendor (and that’s what they sent him as examples), they delivered single-pronged buckles. Their story was that they no longer made the double-pronged buckles. Lee went with what they sent him. Another variance is that Lee had this jacket modified later (after it was originally made) to have 5-inch slit-openings in the back instead of two-inch slit-openings (which is how FS produced them per TOD spec).
One of these jackets was also sent to Peter. You can see some details that were incorporated into the LC jacket like the inside pocket leather facing. Cheers
PS- The site calls the jacket the “Keppler” prototype and this is how the jacket has been referred to in the past. However, the jacket is actually one of the last ones that Flightsuits made before they parted ways with Lee.
PPS- Here's a pic from the main Indygear site of Lee when the jacket was new.
Edit - Lee wanted me to make it clear about what the “New Old Flightsuits” was. Basically Flightsuits was being sold to new owners in 86'. The new owners weren’t cooperative with regards to the manufacture of Lee’s Indy jacket. What ended up happening though was that Flightsuits was never sold. The same owners today own the company. Lee didn’t find this out until years later.
Last edited by Rundquist on Fri May 04, 2007 1:18 pm, edited 8 times in total.
- Michaelson
- Knower of Things
- Posts: 44484
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:55 pm
- Location: Out here knowing stuff and things and wishing I were with the family at Universal Studios Orlando
- Indiana G
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3918
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:55 pm
- Location: in the Temple of Insanity
nice post rundquist....lots of history there.
the hardware on the jacket looks quite odd to me. if they are indeed single pronged buckles, then the only way to hold the strap in is to penetrate the leather. since they are not center bar pronged buckles, the strap is just left to float out there in the wind.....kind of an odd design and prone to putting alot of stress on the prong/tongue in the event the strap gets caught on something.
the hardware on the jacket looks quite odd to me. if they are indeed single pronged buckles, then the only way to hold the strap in is to penetrate the leather. since they are not center bar pronged buckles, the strap is just left to float out there in the wind.....kind of an odd design and prone to putting alot of stress on the prong/tongue in the event the strap gets caught on something.
Those are rectangular sliders on the jacket in the pictures. It's Lee's personal (non production) jacket. CheersIndiana G wrote:nice post rundquist....lots of history there.
the hardware on the jacket looks quite odd to me. if they are indeed single pronged buckles, then the only way to hold the strap in is to penetrate the leather. since they are not center bar pronged buckles, the strap is just left to float out there in the wind.....kind of an odd design and prone to putting alot of stress on the prong/tongue in the event the strap gets caught on something.
PS- I’d never have a pronged-buckle on one of my jackets. I don’t care how “screen accurate” it is.
- Indiana G
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3918
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:55 pm
- Location: in the Temple of Insanity
oh, i think i see the set up. he's going through the outer most slide, around the inside slide and then bringing it back out of the outer most slide. this is different than the standard, "through both slides and pull back between the outer and inner slider". interesting.......regardless, IMHO center bar buckles work better and are more screen accurate (without the prong of course).
Lee Keppler used to buy his jackets from me before Flighsuits but I have no knowledge of him sending one of his jackets to me and why would he?
It is not logical, I certainly would not have bought one from him and why would I. The leather surround on the inside pocket was to make the pocket stronger to take the grail diary but the design is not unique and had been around long before I or flightsuits ever existed.
Many moons ago I was accused of copying flighsuits pocket but I never heard of them until they ripped off my jacket well after the LC was made.
Cheers
Peter
It is not logical, I certainly would not have bought one from him and why would I. The leather surround on the inside pocket was to make the pocket stronger to take the grail diary but the design is not unique and had been around long before I or flightsuits ever existed.
Many moons ago I was accused of copying flighsuits pocket but I never heard of them until they ripped off my jacket well after the LC was made.
Cheers
Peter
- Chewing Wax
- Field Surveyor
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:46 pm
- Location: BUFFALO
I'm very curious what the significance of the Keppler jacket is. I've seen it referred to for years but never knew what the deal was. The early posts from this string helped some, but it seems to me that the jacket is no more legitimate then the Expedition. Is it that it was created so early? That it was derived from a screen used jacket? It seems to have as many "flaws" as anything else out there as far as an exact replica. So many little tiny details are at stake, I don't quite understand what makes this Keppler jacket so important. Thanks for any explanation.
Also, Keppler's early ignorance about the difference between a ROTLA jacket and a TOD jacket, which seem obvious with any viewing of the two movies, leads me to think that he wasn't really that interested in creating a screen accurate ROTLA jacket, just an Indiana Jones type jacket.
Chewing Wax
Go Sabres.
Also, Keppler's early ignorance about the difference between a ROTLA jacket and a TOD jacket, which seem obvious with any viewing of the two movies, leads me to think that he wasn't really that interested in creating a screen accurate ROTLA jacket, just an Indiana Jones type jacket.
Chewing Wax
Go Sabres.
Keppler was one of a select few that actively pursued Indygear in the 80’s (before the Internet, before dvd’s, and for a time, before vhs tape was widely available. The only way to get Indygear details was to look at photos or pay to see the movie (if it was still screening), and by making phone calls. Keppler actually cared very much about details. It’s amazing to me that his jacket even had gussets at all, for instance.Chewing Wax wrote:I'm very curious what the significance of the Keppler jacket is. I've seen it referred to for years but never knew what the deal was. The early posts from this string helped some, but it seems to me that the jacket is no more legitimate then the Expedition. Is it that it was created so early? That it was derived from a screen used jacket? It seems to have as many "flaws" as anything else out there as far as an exact replica. So many little tiny details are at stake, I don't quite understand what makes this Keppler jacket so important. Thanks for any explanation.
Also, Keppler's early ignorance about the difference between a ROTLA jacket and a TOD jacket, which seem obvious with any viewing of the two movies, leads me to think that he wasn't really that interested in creating a screen accurate ROTLA jacket, just an Indiana Jones type jacket.
Chewing Wax
Go Sabres.
Lee got Flightsuits to produce this jacket (based on his notes and research), right after TOD came out. Shortly after (but before LC), Lee sent one of these jackets to Peter (of Wested) just so Peter could get the basic details of what constituted an "Indiana Jones" jacket. Peter’s “Indiana Jones” jacket at that time had shoulder pads and was waist length (hence the term “bell hop jacket”). Do you follow?
The Flightsuits “Expedition” is a completely different jacket (based on a screen used Terry Leonard stuntman jacket). I don’t get what’s illegitimate about that. Cheers
- Bufflehead Jones
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3191
- Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:11 pm
- Location: Maryland
I take your point guys. I've never understood how the maker of the original jacket could have lost the patterns to such a significant item. I've always wondered why the jacket looked so different in each film. But I guess you guys have now established that Peter didn't make the TOD jacket.
I'm looking forward to the new jacket section.
Regards -
I'm looking forward to the new jacket section.
Regards -
- Chewing Wax
- Field Surveyor
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:46 pm
- Location: BUFFALO
Thanks for the explanation. And I didn't mean to imply any illegitimacy. Merely equal legitimacy, thinking the importance of the Keppler jacket was that it was based on measurements of a screen used jacket just as the Expedition was. Not really important though. Now I understand that it is the historical place of the Keppler jacket and the interaction with Wested that makes it important.
- Puppetboy
- Vendor
- Posts: 1024
- Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:57 am
- Location: Southern California
- Contact:
I think to be precise, the best information provided by _ and others idicates that Peter DID make the TOD jacket since they were left-over Raiders jackets. The exception is the Cooper jacket used during the scenes filmed in Sri Lanka. But you are correct if you mean that Peter did not make new jackets for TOD.I've always wondered why the jacket looked so different in each film. But I guess you guys have now established that Peter didn't make the TOD jacket.
- Chewing Wax
- Field Surveyor
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:46 pm
- Location: BUFFALO
Isn't this a response?PETER wrote:Lee Keppler used to buy his jackets from me before Flighsuits but I have no knowledge of him sending one of his jackets to me and why would he?
It is not logical, I certainly would not have bought one from him and why would I. The leather surround on the inside pocket was to make the pocket stronger to take the grail diary but the design is not unique and had been around long before I or flightsuits ever existed.
Many moons ago I was accused of copying flighsuits pocket but I never heard of them until they ripped off my jacket well after the LC was made.
Cheers
Peter
- Chewing Wax
- Field Surveyor
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:46 pm
- Location: BUFFALO
It comes down to this. Peter made (most of) the movie jackets. No one can take that away from him. He makes the most affordable jacket on the market today. His jacket has gotten to the point where it’s really close to what was on screen. No one can blame him for not keeping details of the original jacket. How could he know that 25+ years down the line there would be freaks all over the internet dissecting the jackets. It’s forgivable. But there’s no reason to cover up and (or) deny the truth. The jackets will sell regardless. Cheers
Last edited by Rundquist on Fri May 11, 2007 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Michaelson
- Knower of Things
- Posts: 44484
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:55 pm
- Location: Out here knowing stuff and things and wishing I were with the family at Universal Studios Orlando