Less expensive whip source?

Chevalier Krak · Post by **Chevalier Krak** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:53 pm

I would love to own one of these works of art, but just don't have the money now. Is there a source of less expensive whips that anyone could recommend? There is a guy on ebay called jrzjoe who sells less expensive whips. Does anyone know anything about him?
Thanks, David

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:59 pm

A decent whip comes with a price tag. That said, several whipmakers offer cheaper versions - whether it's Adam Winrich's budget whip or a Bernardo in kip instead of roohide. Or sometimes you get lucky on ebay. I've seen whips from major whipmakers go for a fairly low price sometimes. I even picked up an 8ft Morgan for a very low price a while back.

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Fri May 04, 2007 5:02 pm

Agree 100% with Whiskey!

You're far better off to get a kip whip from Bernardo, or one of Adam's Budget Indy's, (or even splurge on one of his 12 plait cowhides.)

Jrzjoe hypes his stuff like mad on his auctions, but it's wind in sails. Yeah, it might crack, but big deal. I can get a towel to crack. How does it handle?

Adam and Bernardo's stuff will crack, will last, and will handle like a good whip is supposed to.

Don't waste your cash on @#$%.

-Dan

midwestwhips · Post by **midwestwhips** » Fri May 04, 2007 5:06 pm

dwardeden wrote:I would love to own one of these works of art, but just don't have the money now. Is there a source of less expensive whips that anyone could recommend? There is a guy on ebay called jrzjoe who sells less expensive whips. Does anyone know anything about him?
Thanks, David

David,

It depends on what you consider less expensive, and what your price range is.

I just put up a page on my website for used whips at:

http://www.midwestwhips.com/SaleWhips.html

There are a few used whips there that are over $100 less than a new whip.

If you are looking for something cheaper, one option is to get a lower strand count whip, such as an 8 plait whip, or a whip in cowhide from Bernardo or Adam Winrich.

If you are looking for a whip for around $120 bucks or less that is well made, and cracks well, I would suggest not even looking on ebay, and go for an Indy on a Budget bullwhip from Adam Winrich. Ebay can be hazardous if you do not know exactly what to look for. One thing that bugs me is that there is a certain whipmaker on ebay who claims he is a famous whipmaker because he had an article written about him in a local paper once.

Sorry I needed to vent, but I think a lot of people here know what I am talking about.

For the same price those whips go for on ebay, you can get a much higher quality whip, if you go with the Indy on a budget.

So it really all depends on your price range, what you are going to be using it for, and what you are looking for.

If you see something on ebay that you are interested in, feel free to drop me a line, I'll have a look at it, and let you know if I think it is worth buying.

Regards,

Paul Nolan
www.midwestwhips.com

Ripper · Post by **Ripper** » Fri May 04, 2007 6:15 pm

Ebay can be hazardous if you do not know exactly what to look for. One thing that bugs me is that there is a certain whipmaker on ebay who claims he is a famous whipmaker because he had an article written about him in a local paper once.

Thats who I buy all my whips from !

That and nice machine made whips are the way to go.

Just kidding of course !

winrichwhips · Post by **winrichwhips** » Sat May 05, 2007 5:43 am

Thanks for the kind words, Dan and Paul.

A note on my Indy-on-a-Budget whips: If you've seen my You Tube videos (thank you for the help Paul!) and if you're aware of my Guinness records for whipcracking, I think it's safe to say I know how to crack a whip, and as a result I know how a good whip should handle.

I test each IOAB whip before I ship it out to make sure it handles the way I think it should, and if it isn't up to par, I rework it or build a whole new whip until I'm happy with the result. You can't get that from the bargain whip dealers on Ebay.

Now that I'm done with the shamless plug

Bernardo makes great Indy whips and if you can spend $200 or more, get one of his.

However, if you're REALLY REALLY broke, do what I did when I was 10 years old and make your own whip. That can be cost-effective and personally rewarding at the same time.

-Adam
www.winrichwhips.com

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:50 am

An e-mail that I just recently sent to a bunch of whip new whip cracking students I'm working with pretty much sums up my thoughts on buying whips from e-bay in general:

I normally don't recommend buying whips from e-Bay unless you know the seller, because as I've said, it's the guts of the whip that count, and it can look FANTASTIC on the outside and handle like a garden hose. And if it's a used whip, and the MAKER you know is good, you don't know how the whip has been treated, (I about got burned on that 6' target whip I'm always cracking. It was LIKE NEW, but it had been in a closet for about 4 or 5 years with no maintenence. The fall had almost dryrotted off, and I had to saturate the whip with leather conditioner to make sure the belly of the whip wasn't a mess as well. I saved it, and it's a great whip, but you just got to watch it.)

Thought I would share that here too, as I think it's relevant. So, that whole "Let the Buyer Beware" caveat from eBay applies DIRECTLY for whips.

(And Paul, if that "Famous Maker Whip" eBay seller is who I'm thinking, then that explains why in 3 years of hobnobbing with some of the greatest whip crackers and makers in the world, on here and through the WWAC, I've never heard him mentioned once...Well...except once for Adam Winrich, who said the name with such a ornery smile on his face.. ;-) )

Anyway, all the best,

-Dan

Captain Ron Solo · Post by **Captain Ron Solo** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:22 am

Check out www.purewhips.com. I've spoke with Gus before. He makes some great owhide whips for the price.

JKL
Ron

Captain Ron Solo · Post by **Captain Ron Solo** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:24 am

Yeah, I've seen the listings for that "famous whip maker" before. It seems all he makes are snake whips, but I can't testify as to the quality.

JKL
Ron

louiefoxx · Post by **louiefoxx** » Sat May 05, 2007 12:20 pm

One guy is selling "movie replica" whips that look nothing like what was used in the movie!

I sell a couple of whips on ebay, but I'm honest with the flaws in my whips and my inexperience in the description. Most people are not...and try to sell through hype.

As a result of selling a few whips on ebay, I get emails from people asking me to do custom work for them. Sure I could take the cash and screw up their job, but instead I refer them to people who can do the job right.

After seeing a lot of what gets pimped on ebay, I think I'm one of the few guys on there that is honest with thier listings.

Another thing I've done is I've made a blog to record how I am making these whips to hopefully help myself grow as a whipmaker, but also so people can see what what goes into my whips. You can check out my blog at http://www.bullwhips.org

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:56 am

I've seen those too, and considering the picture of JUST the Morgan whip they have for the main picture on those auctions, I'm saddened that the lawyers of the venerable Mr. Morgan don't swoop in and shred those guys. They also do the same thing with Zorro and Catwoman, but show pictures of the CHARACTERS not the whips. Showing the whips could be construed as misrepresentation of product and "Bait and Switch," which can not only get you canned from eBay, but also get you sued into bankruptcy...

-Dan

Rabittooth · Post by **Rabittooth** » Sun May 06, 2007 11:28 am

Captain Ron Solo wrote:Check out www.purewhips.com. I've spoke with Gus before. He makes some great owhide whips for the price.

JKL
Ron

I agree. I bought a 6 foot Indy style whip from Gus for a VERY reasonable price that both looks and handles beautifully.
Drop him an email.

-Rabittooth

Kaplan · Post by **Kaplan** » Sun May 06, 2007 12:48 pm

I have a whip from Caciedo as well. Very reasonable price. He makes them incredibly fast. I love mine.

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Mon May 07, 2007 3:30 am

David, The advice given here is spot on… Just to reiterate, you don’t need an expensive whip, but you do want a well made one.

As stated, be careful with eBay auctions. While there are some whip makers on there that are not well known, but they make very nice whips and do there best to provide good service, there are a lot of poor quality whips being sold every day at that site. Unless you know the seller or whip maker who originally made the whip and know what to look for and what questions to ask, as Dan put it, it’s easy to get burned. Those mass produced Mexican made “replica” whips, for the most part aren’t built very well and can be difficult to work with if your trying to actually learn proper whip handling techniques.

Unless you just want a costume whip, My advice is, figure out what your budget is and save up a lil more. You can get pretty good cowhide bullwhips for around $100 from Adam or Giovanni and You know your getting quality. Keep an eye on the classifieds here too, good whips sometimes come up for sale at reduced prices.

Dan

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:46 am

also, don't forget about the nylon whips... There are several builders who specialize in nylon and are very good at it! Plus, you can use a nylon whip anywhere, anytime! Water will not effect it as it does leather whips. There is a builder called Jabbahutt (I think...) that builds a nylon Indy replica. I believe he is a member here? I believe he sells 10 footers for $150.

Coronado

PS. when you are ready to spend some dough for a roo whip, contact Bernardo del Carpio (a member here at COW)... he is a great guy to deal with and has great prices and fantastic craftsmanship!
c3

giovanniceleste · Post by **giovanniceleste** » Mon May 07, 2007 11:27 am

BullWhipBorton wrote: ...You can get pretty good cowhide bullwhips for around $100 from Adam or Giovanni and You know your getting quality.
Dan

Dan,
many thanks for the beautiful words about my whips.
Gio

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:35 pm

winrichwhips wrote:Thanks for the kind words, Dan and Paul.

A note on my Indy-on-a-Budget whips: If you've seen my You Tube videos (thank you for the help Paul!) and if you're aware of my Guinness records for whipcracking, I think it's safe to say I know how to crack a whip, and as a result I know how a good whip should handle.

I test each IOAB whip before I ship it out to make sure it handles the way I think it should, and if it isn't up to par, I rework it or build a whole new whip until I'm happy with the result. You can't get that from the bargain whip dealers on Ebay.

Now that I'm done with the shamless plug Bernardo makes great Indy whips and if you can spend $200 or more, get one of his.

However, if you're REALLY REALLY broke, do what I did when I was 10 years old and make your own whip. That can be cost-effective and personally rewarding at the same time.

-Adam
www.winrichwhips.com

I would lovw to lern to make my own whip. How would you sugest I start?

winrichwhips · Post by **winrichwhips** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:54 pm

Bending Oak,

I'd recommend getting Ron Edwards' book, 'How to Make Whips' and go from there. Or you might be able to find a book about braiding at your local library. The first thing is to learn the basic 4-strand round braid, and once you have that you could attempt to throw together your first whip.

-Adam

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:00 pm

Bending Oak, if you do get into making yourself a whip, I would honestly like to see your results.

With the passion you show for life, and the dedication you also show in your work as a fireman, I can't believe you'd produce anything less than perfection.

I'm just stating my personal observation.

HIGHEST regards! Michaelson

Dostacos · Post by **Dostacos** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:38 pm

I would think anything less than the Indy-on-a-Budget whip would not be worth the expense of buying it[I do NOT know whips but I have looked around and the ones on evilbay just don't have the finished look of a good product I for one will be getting the budget whip as my Christmas present

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:48 pm

Michaelson, that is a very big statement and one of the best complements. thanks for putting the pressure on me.

the funny thing is I've only owned three bullwhips ( 2 at the moment). one whip , that for the life of me don't remember where I got it from ( don't have it anymore. the secound is a IOAB whip from Adam and now a strain 8' 12 plait nat. whip as a gift. I have to say the more I see and read about them. The more I want to know.

right now I'm trying to get as much information as possible. I would really like to try it. I have a creative side to me but haven't found a outlet for it for a long time.

Mark Brody · Post by **Mark Brody** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:59 am

I was looking at jrzjoe's whips on eBay, so I searched COW for him and found this old thread. I'm glad I did, because now I'm looking at Caicedo and Winrich. Does anyone have any firsthand experience with jrzjoe, and how do the Caicedo and Winrich whips compare?

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:20 am

Just in terms of construction and appearance alone, I can tell you that Adam and Gus are lightyears ahead of JRZJoe.

JRZJoe also posts very misleading or downright erroneous information in his auctions. I have previously seen the main action picture using shots of Morgan and Strain whips, OR a still from Indiana Jones or Zorro itself, (at which point one has to scroll down to see the piece of @#$% you're actually bidding on.)

He's used the words "Australian Kangaroo" in his auctions before, and it turns out that he is NOT using Australian construction, or Kangaroo in the thong construction, but has used a wide strip of "Genuine Australian Kangaroo Hide" as the fall on the whip, (of all the parts of a whip to make out of kangaroo, the FALL is the LAST one you should use. Kangaroo has good tensile strength and is stretchy, but doesn't handle abrasion well. What a GREAT type of leather to use on the part of the whip that drags along the ground and actually takes all the abuse!)

If you look at the construction of his whips, there is very little taper along the thong, (yeah, they're thicker at the handle, but then the taper drastically drops off, and the majority of the thong is one diameter.)

You are MUCH better off to spend your money with Gus, or RacerX, (who's cowhide whips I can personally vouch for,) or Adam, (if catch him while he's still selling. He's taking some time off from whip making to focus on performance, but I can personally attest to his work as well!) or get a nylon whip from Jabba, (planning on that myself!) Their work has been tested and approved not only by the folks just getting into whip cracking, but also from the seasoned folks who are adding to their arsenal.

Still, Joe offers a "100% Satisfaction Money Back Guarantee." But considering his OTHER claims, I'd trust it about as far as I can throw it.

Once again, never dealt directly with him. Could be a stand up guy. But apart from the testimonials that I've read on his auctions, (who could very well be from folks who like he work because they don't know any better,) I've never known anyone who's bought one. And I haven't for the above reasons.

All the best,

-Dan

Cracker · Post by **Cracker** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:26 pm

Well, I guess I have to admit that I bought one. It was before I knew anything about whips or this forum. I haven't taken it apart yet, but plan to. I can tell you that the belly and core are nothing but a nylon rope as best I can tell. It's got about as much life in it as a rope also. It's extremely light and not easy to crack. I'm sure his customer base is made up of people like me that don't (make that didn't) know any better. I guess the only decent thing about it is the plaiting looks pretty good, but the knots look horrible.
Jim

Mark Brody · Post by **Mark Brody** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:22 pm

Thanks for the tips, everyone. It's good to hear firsthand about jrzjoe's whips, but I'm sorry it didn't work out, Cracker. It might still be a while before I can afford a whip. As expensive as Indy gear is, weddings cost even more, and should probably be a higher priority.

Cracker · Post by **Cracker** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:56 pm

Yep, I'd say a wedding is a way higher priority. It's been 25 years since I've been through one. Too bad that a good whip will last longer than most marriages nowadays.
Jim

Tron7960 · Post by **Tron7960** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:12 pm

Check out Todd's whip.

Tron

hollywood1340 · Post by **hollywood1340** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:15 pm

You could add "Morgan Bullwhip" to your gift registry......

Katarn07 · Post by **Katarn07** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:13 pm

Cracker wrote:Well, I guess I have to admit that I bought one. It was before I knew anything about whips or this forum. I haven't taken it apart yet, but plan to. I can tell you that the belly and core are nothing but a nylon rope as best I can tell. It's got about as much life in it as a rope also. It's extremely light and not easy to crack. I'm sure his customer base is made up of people like me that don't (make that didn't) know any better. I guess the only decent thing about it is the plaiting looks pretty good, but the knots look horrible.
Jim

OK, so it's a bad whip to try using, but how does it look coiled on a shelf or hanging off your belt? I want a whip to display with my fedora and Mark VII but don't intend on ever using it!

Can you post some pics if you still have it intact? All of his photos, no matter what length or pleat count, seem to be one of three different photos. What length and pleat count did you get?

Cracker · Post by **Cracker** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:54 pm

Just go to Ebay and look at his whips. They all look the same regardless of how he describes them. I think they would look fine hanging off of your whip holder to most people. 99% of the people that see it on you won't know the difference between it and a good whip. But if you meet anyone from this forum, watch out

Mine was a 12 plait and it does look fine except for the turks heads and fall knot. But again, most people won't know the difference.

Less expensive whip source?

Less expensive whip source?

Re: Less expensive whip source?

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