CCW and Indy jackets

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:49 pm

Anyone here carry concealed wearing their Wested or G&B? What style holster do you use - IWB or belt?

I just purchased a Kimber Pro-Carry and I have been thinking of applying for a CCW license. Or now they call it CPL, same thing. I know shorter jackets aren't the best option for concealed carry, but wanted to ask all you gents if anyone had pulled it off and what kind if rig you use.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:25 pm

Doesn't work all that well, unless you wear a shoulder holster. That split down the side that allowed for ease of access to the whip and flap holster was great for convience...but a concealed side holster pops right out.

I've used a shoulder rig with no problems...provided the jacket is cut large enough around the armpits.

Regards! Michaelson

kobol · Post by **kobol** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:42 pm

Only with an untucked shirt under my jacket covering the handgun (IWB & OWB). The jacket is really too short to conceal effectively by itself without having to severely restrict your movements as to not risk flashing your rig.
That's my opinion at least. As for the handungs I used (Glock 27, Springfield LW Champion & Full Size 1911A1). All in various IWB and OWB holsters (Kramer / Milt Sparks / Horsehoe Leather).

IndyParise · Post by **IndyParise** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:46 pm

Most of my airsoft handguns fit in the inside pocket, otherwise I can't imagine it being too useful. It's too open in the front for a shoulder rig really, and two short for a side rig. Possibly tucked in the waistband it could work.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:04 pm

I carry IWB without trouble. As kobol said, the jacket is a bit short, but works with IWB or a shoulder holster that doesn't require a tie down. OWB isn't really an option unless your wearing a longer untucked shirt.

I would suggest a good IWB along the line of Milt Sparks' Versa Max II. That Kimber Pro-Carry isa nice gun and you should have little trouble concealing it with a quality holster and belt.

kobol · Post by **kobol** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:44 pm

As J_Weaver mentioned, the Milt Sparks' Versa Max II is a great holster. I have one with the "tuckable clips" and it truly allows you to tuck a shirt over the gun. That would work with the jacket. I have personally done it. Although you will be a little slower in the draw of the weapon. But life is full of compromises.

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:17 am

Yeah,works o.k. with an IWB and untucked shirt. I've carried my highpower that way or with a tuckable holster for the Indy shirt. Pretty much what everyone else has said.
TR

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:54 am

Thanks for the input guys.....

I have currently on order a full rig (incl belt and mag ouch) for the Double Agent belt holster from El Paso Saddlery. I figured it might be questionable with the ol' Wested, but I have some longer coats that would definately fit the bill. I'm going to try it anyways just to see- that holster can be worn both cross draw and strong side, and from the illustrations it looks like the cross draw config rides a bit higher than strong side. Their pics show a full size 1911, and in crossdraw it looks to ride about a full inch higher due to the angle. Mine would be a bit higher (4" bbl). If it doesn't work out that's fine, I would go for an IWB for summer carry anyways, and that could also be my holster for when I wear the Wested.

I did look into the Milt Sparks line, they have some great stuff. Wild Bill's Concealment holsters are nice too, a bit more easy on the wallet, but his line up is a bit more limited.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:07 am

ANYTHING from El Paso saddlery is top drawer.

I love their stuff, and have owned several over the years.

HIGH regards! Michaelson

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:42 am

That makes me feel quite good about my purchase Michaelson. I found them online, had not heard anything about them, and scoured the internet for product reviews, particularly for the Double Agent. I found only 1, and just a few off-hand remarks in general. They seem to be pretty low key, at least compared to makers like Galco.

Here's a pic of the holster:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/V ... _1/EPS.jpg

and here are a few pics of my brand new Kimber with Hogue ivory polymer grips:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/V ... 060175.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/V ... 060176.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/V ... 060177.jpg

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:23 am

NICE!!!

Yep, they've been around since the 1870s's, and know how to put leather together!

Regards! Michaelson

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:47 pm

Bjones, El Paso Saddlery is a top notch company. I've got an order in with them right now for a #77 Tortilla holster and a double mag pouch. I've been waiting patiently, but its starting to get to me.

Oh, and checkout www.1911fourm.com lots of smart folks over there that can tell you all you ever wanted to know about a 1911 and CCW in general. Its one of my regular haunts.

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:31 am

High Noon and HBE make some of THE BEST iwb holsters around. Ya might check 'em out. Their tuckables especially! My personal favorites for sure!
TR

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:51 am

J_Weaver wrote:Bjones, El Paso Saddlery is a top notch company. I've got an order in with them right now for a #77 Tortilla holster and a double mag pouch. I've been waiting patiently, but its starting to get to me.

Oh, and checkout www.1911fourm.com lots of smart folks over there that can tell you all you ever wanted to know about a 1911 and CCW in general. Its one of my regular haunts.

The tortilla is a nice holster. I was never crazy about thumb breaks, but those are definately some of the better ones I've seen. I think the cheap Uncle Mike's I have for my S&W 915 was what turned me off. Maybe 'cause its cheap

I was initially looking at the #88 street combat holster, until I saw the double agent - I loved that it does both positions and maintains the forward cant in the strongside position. I liked the design of it over the 3 slot pancake styles, its much cleaner, no extra material sticking out.

How long have you been waiting? I was quoted 6 weeks and that was about 1.5 weeks ago.

Yeah I've been over there to the 1911 forums, but never posted, just browsed. It is indeed a wealth of info.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:58 pm

Bjones, I've been waiting about 6 weeks. I was quoted on the phone about 4, but their website says 4-8 weeks, so I'm just remaining patient.

The only reason I went with a thumb break was because I plan to use this holster for hiking/open carry and wanted a bit more retention. I can just see myself taking a spill down a mountian side and me going one way and my 1911 going the other.

carebear · Post by **carebear** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:49 pm

J_Weaver wrote:Bjones, I've been waiting about 6 weeks. I was quoted on the phone about 4, but their website says 4-8 weeks, so I'm just remaining patient.

The only reason I went with a thumb break was because I plan to use this holster for hiking/open carry and wanted a bit more retention. I can just see myself taking a spill down a mountian side and me going one way and my 1911 going the other.

Two words for ya.

Lanyard.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:56 pm

carebear wrote:
J_Weaver wrote:Bjones, I've been waiting about 6 weeks. I was quoted on the phone about 4, but their website says 4-8 weeks, so I'm just remaining patient.

The only reason I went with a thumb break was because I plan to use this holster for hiking/open carry and wanted a bit more retention. I can just see myself taking a spill down a mountian side and me going one way and my 1911 going the other.
Two words for ya.

Lanyard.

The lanyard might keep you from loosing the gun, but it doesn't keep the gun in the holster.

carebear · Post by **carebear** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:36 pm

Touche mon frere....

If it helps, I carry IWB with no retention device other than friction (not even the "tighten the screw" kind) and can do front rolls without losing the gun.

But I got no heartburn with using a thumbbreak.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:41 am

carebear wrote:Touche mon frere....

If it helps, I carry IWB with no retention device other than friction (not even the "tighten the screw" kind) and can do front rolls without losing the gun.

But I got no heartburn with using a thumbbreak.

Yea, its probably not necessary as far as falling and the gun falling out. However, since I plan to open carry with this holster some I like the idea of some rentention. (other than myself) If this was going to be a primary concealment holster, it would most certainly have no thumb break.

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:15 am

Well, I also just bought a Galco NSA II IWB holster. I tried out several types at my local shop and I found many of them to be very bulky, especially ones with the belt loops and reinforced openings. The NSAII is very slim and the clip is offset rearward so there is less stackup where the gun rides. Here's a pic http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterG3.asp?Pr ... &GunID=183

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:28 pm

Nice! I like holsters of that design because they keep things nice and slim.

Mfisher · Post by **Mfisher** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:00 pm

I don't ever recommend using a holster without at least a thumbbreak... you can say all you want about being able to secure your sidearm, but in an ugly situation you will be much better off with at least a level one security...

Lee Keppler · Post by **Lee Keppler** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:41 am

Use an Invisable Holster. It puts the butt right behind the belt line between the shirt and the pants. It pivots when you sit. In fact, you can draw seat belted in a car with no upper body movement. You don't have to dress around the gun. Contact me.

Lee Keppler · Post by **Lee Keppler** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:43 am

Oops! That's Invisible Holster. I'm tired.

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:10 am

O.K., I'm gonna give some input here about the holster subject, cause I've done searching out the WAZOO over time to find the best concealable holster for 'normal' sized guns (larger frame autos and such). These are two of the best available and I'll tell ya why- for a concealed IWB holster, the tuckable conceals the best with minimum clothing. Now, you also need leather behind the slide area with these, otherwise the gun contacts skin (unless wearing an undershirt) and this is not comfortable nor good for the finish of the gun. Also, you need a reinforced opening for ease of reholstering, otherwise after the draw, the holster collapses(which some really don't mind), it's not a huge issue, but an issue none the less. Also stabilitly is a slight problem with IWB's, so this issue has to be taken into account as well, generally with more connecting points or a 'paddle' in the design thats holds it in place. High noon offers a series like this one-

[/img]

This has all the features that an IWB holster needs, and you can get it LINED if you'd like!

There is also HBE, which offers a model with the hooks or loops on the sides of the weapon, making for a narrower holster, albeit slightly wider, but has all that you need in an excellent IWB holster.
Like this-

Or a tuckable like this- [img]http:/ ... .jpg[/img]

They also have the style like Bjones suggested, but with the tuckable advantage-

There are few other really go ... TR

Mfisher · Post by **Mfisher** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:55 am

otherwise after the draw, the holster collapses(which some really don't mind), it's not a huge issue,

For me this is a huge issue... granted I am a police officer and my needs for on the job performance are different than a private citizen's CCW needs.. but still... I work in a narcotics unit so unless we are executing a raid with heavy gear (in which case I would be using a drop-down leg holster) I obviously wear a concealed weapon holster.. almost all of us all wear leather (Galco or Bianchi) holsters similar to this style:

The holster threads through the belt which is very important.. (its always great see someone in training try and fast draw a pistol in one of those concealed weapon holsters that clip onto your belt pull the entire holster out along with the gun.. classic stuff)..
But regarding a holster collapsing after you draw it out.. think about this.. you've drawn your handgun.. maybe you have fired.. maybe the situation is stable now.. and now you go to reholster.. if you're smart then you have practiced over and over and over and over the movements of drawing and REHOLSTERING your handgun without looking.. if not, there you are looking down at your side putting the weapon back into place.. the last place your eyes need to be is down.. always up, scanning for possible threats.. for me, in terms of job tactics.. almost all arrests we make in my unit are felony drug arrests.. after a deal goes down and we move in to apprehend the involved parties, pistols are drawn the minute we exit our vehicles and the suspects (that dont run) are immediately ordered to the ground... as you approach you gotta keep your eyes on the guy you are moving in to cuff.. so you cant be looking down at your holster while you reholster... obviously this is just my take on holsters though.. whats right for me may be way wrong for someone else.. just wanted to throw out my opinion though

carebear · Post by **carebear** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:54 pm

I like a non-collapsing holster myself, but from a non-LEO standpoint the thinking goes like this.

I don't have to ever go hands on with the guy.

If I draw and he runs off, I can reholster at my leisure.

If I draw and put him down, I am not trained nor expected (nor should try) to cuff or search him, so I should simply cover him until the police arrive, at which point I might as well just set the weapon down and step away from it, since they'll more than likely want to take a look at it (and probably not want me to be armed at that point) anyway.

There's less of a draw, then holster so I can do something else, need as a non-LEO.

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:15 pm

Texas Raider wrote:There is also HBE, which offers a model with the hooks or loops on the sides of the weapon, making for a narrower holster, albeit slightly wider, but has all that you need in an excellent IWB holster.

Wow. All the hours I spent on the internet searching makers, I never came across HBE. The tuckable with the offset clip is outstanding. I still prefer the clips that go behind the belt and come underneath.

As for the collapsed opening, I think its a want and not a need for many of us. Mfisher, you make some good points, but I gather its more of a need for you since are an officer, and ease of draw/re-holstering is critical to your safety. I probably wont need something like that as my gun should stay in the holster for everything but the worst case scenario. Many of the ones I looked at with reinforced opening were just too thick where you need to be "thin".

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:10 am

Like I said, the collapse phenomenon is an issue and should be addressed,but like I also implied- with some it's an issue others not so much. I personally like the reinforced opening for ease of reholstering. I don't have any problems reholstering without looking, but I've also used the kind that collapse. It's kinda whichever I grab at the time. I did forget to mention the security standpoint of whipping out gun AND holster. Both holsters I showed are very good in this area as well. Only the best for 'the Kid'! ;-) I can list more excellent makers that are of best quality IWB if anyone needs the info.

TR

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:30 pm

Not much I can say here besides give everybody a +1.

For LE, rentention is a must.
For a non-LE CCW'er, its not as big of an issue

Also, I like holsters with belt loops instead of the clips as well. I had a Bianchi IWB holster nearly work it way out of my pants because the clip slipped up over the bottom of my belt.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Fri May 04, 2007 2:02 pm

Just wanted to give an update. I got my order from El Paso Saddlery this morning. All I can say is WOW, talk about top quality gun leather! When I put it on, I was really surprised how well this holster made a full size 1911 disappear under just a light button down shirt. Much more than I expected from a OWB holster

Its probably gonna take a day or two of breaking before I can use the holster. The fit is tight enough that I look like Barney Fife trying to draw...

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:43 pm

I have gone totally crazy.

Since my last post in this thread I have ordered yet another Kimber, this time, a Pro TLE 2. Nearly the same as the Pro carry, but with a steel frame, front strap checkering and night sights. I intend to shoot the #### out of this one at the range and carry the other one (with the lighter aluminum frame). I also ordered an IWB tuckable holster from Blackhills Leather. So I have 3 holsters coming (Glaco, El Paso, and Black Hills), that both guns will fit exactly the same. I am officially out of cash.

J Weaver, we need to see some pics!!

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Thu May 10, 2007 4:12 pm

I'd love to post pics, but no camera...

I've been saying for years now that I'm gonna buy one, but something always comes up.

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Fri May 11, 2007 12:48 am

J_Weaver wrote:I'd love to post pics, but no camera... I've been saying for years now that I'm gonna buy one, but something always comes up.

Yeah, like more holsters

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Sat May 12, 2007 6:39 pm

Bjones wrote:
J_Weaver wrote:I'd love to post pics, but no camera... I've been saying for years now that I'm gonna buy one, but something always comes up.
Yeah, like more holsters

Yup, and more guns, gear, etc, etc

. I'm getting ready to start some custom work on my 1911 thats gonna eat up the price of a nice camera. But I'd rather have a slicked up .45 than a camera anyway.

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:48 pm

What kind of 1911 do you have and what are you having done to it?

Both my holsters should arrive sometime in the next 2 weeks...getting hard to wait. Kind of reminds me when I ordered my HH from Peter back in 2004.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Mon May 14, 2007 12:39 am

I've got a Springfield Mil-Spec. I'm going to do the work myself with the exception of refinishing it. I originally planed to turn it into a very modern 1911 (beavertail grip safety and all the goodies, etc) however, I'm leaning toward giving it a blend of old and new and making it more unique. Currently on the parts list: Pre-A1 style grip safety, wide spur hammer, long solid trigger (with a pull between 3.5 and 4 pounds), Ed Brown extended thumb safety, Yost Retro rear sight, EGW barrel bushing and a few various and sundry internals. I guess when I'm finished with it the only Springfield parts that will be left will be the frame, slide and barrel.

This is going to be my first build so we'll see if I can translate my "book smarts" into a working gun.