It's really simple - so simple it has to be right. Ready? Here is is:
Yep. That's it. The two-pronged buckle on (what I believe to be one of) TL's Raiders stunt jacket re-used in TOD. How do you make it look like the Raiders buckle? Easy. Don't punch holes in the strap. The strap will fold over the prongs. The prongs will rotate to the front side of the buckle, making a very secure lock. They will also cause a roll on that side of the strap, which will cover the front-side bar perfectly.
Now I can die a happy man.
Here are some photos of a test I made today.
Buckle:
Insert strap:
And pull:
A perfect match in my book. I pulled extremely hard on the strap without poking through. You'd rip up your jacket before poking through the strap.
Thanks, PLATON or posting those pics. Now I'm really sure this is the right set-up. In each of those pics the forward side has a rolled strap casting a shadow, and perhaps a small amount of the bar showing underneath. It tells me that the prongs are a little shorter than on my makeshift buckle, and the center bar is offset (recessed) to produce a flatter look. If Agent5 can provide a HD version of those screen caps, perhaps we can see it better.
It's called an "English vest buckle" and it's a standard tailoring item. Some have the bar on the prong-side flattened to produce a more streamlined appearance, which might be what we're looking at here. HD caps would help to verify that.
With the english vest buckle config, you can see the front bar peeking out from under the strap - especially from a front view. Platon, you might be right that you can see a bit of the bar. I need to find the right buckle and right strap thickness. The straps I made are a little thick still.
There are a million configurations of this type of buckle. I wish I had a better shot of the one on Noel Howard's jacket. The width of the buckle, position of center bar, offset of the center bar, thickness of the prongs, and thickness of the front bar (prongside). Some have a wide and flat bar on the prong side, which might be what we have here. It would align the edge of the strap fold and the edge of the bar perfectly, and still provide a very flat look.
The caps Agent5 posted agree perfectly. That is exactly the look when the buckle opens a little - the prongs hold the strap out like tent poles. In his pics they are still rotated forward most of the way.
just a question though....why would they put the prongs on the raiders jacket and then not use them?
wouldn't it be common sense for the costumer to see these prongs on the jacket and then either remove them (easiliy done with pliers) if he/she didn't want to penetrate the leather strap or penetrate the leather strap and lock 'em in (as in TOD jacket).
just a question though....why would they put the prongs on the raiders jacket and then not use them?
Good question. Answer... I don't know. The prongs do make a very strong lock, though, and it is easily repositioned. I don't know a lot about these vest buckles and their normal usage, but looking at the designs of some with very sharp prongs and spring type locks makes me wonder if they aren't intended to use this way. They are intended for use on fabric straps where the prongs simply pierce the fabric - no preset holes are punched. To use this system on leather is, perhaps, novel. It does have the advantage of a clean look with no ragged holes to stretch and get ugly.
Some pronged vest buckles have stubby, fixed prongs, which also point to use as a lock without punching holes. If anyone has info on this I'd love to hear it.
I don't know the "why", but it does seem to fit the photos, and we do have a possible stunt jacket with the same hardware.
Not necessarily. I had to use a dremel cutting wheel to get mine off the buckle I used for the bag strap. Those pins are plenty strong and not much place to grip on that small loop. Now imagine having to do this on location, in the heat and where down time costs money...and I'm not surprised they would just keep the pins on.
If this is indeed what you're seeing and are reproducing, I can only surmise the reason they appeared on the jackets in the first place was probably the same reason the aluminum zipper was installed. Not enough time to finish the job.
Let's face it, the hardware was the LAST thing installed before they were thrown out the door. Maybe this was the only buckle they could lay their hands on in the haste to finish the jackets...hense no holes punched in the strap.
I've NEVER seen a jacket, vintage or otherwise, that had this type buckle installed that didn't have the corresponding holes punched in the strap for securing.
True, but they also should be in the front as well. Those holes were never punched. I've seen them installed punched all the way through, but never like this.
I still believe it was a quick installation, and unfinished. Just like the aluminum zipper....we're seeing last minute band-aid costume 'fixes' being reproduced here.
Here's another thought: what if the hero jacket was (as _ believes) the prototype - it is conceivable that they left the strap unpunched. If it were me making it, I'd leave it unpunched until I'd had a fitting and knew exactly where I wanted the holes. Perhaps he left the strap unpunched to allow the costumer to set the holes.
I'm still looking for information on the use of these buckles. I've also seen them called "safety buckles" and "trouser adjustment buckles".
a) the prongs are so difficult to remove
b) HF has already been fitted to the jacket
and
c) filming starts with alot of stunts that could possible pull this strap out if slightly left opened due to the prongs in place and not punched through the leather
....why not punch them through like in the TOD jacket. just speculation of course, but i would secure the straps especially knowing that ford has already taken a beating on the movie.
i can see it now....ford is repelling into the well of souls and snags one of the statues teeth in his strap and tips it over into the wall prematurely. steven is yelling "######, now we have to rebuild that wall for the escape shot.....and get me more snakes ######!!!!"
Really, you just hit on a very good reason not to punch the holes through - no exposed prongs. In an action scene they could really cause some damage (to actors as well as wardrobe!) That's the best theory of all.
The prongs on the Noel Howard jacket look kind of small and sharp. I'd want them covered up, too.
a) the prongs are so difficult to remove
On some of these buckles, the prongs don't come off at all. They are an integral part of the center bar (the center bar rotates with the prongs). In other buckles they have safety covers that snap over the ends of the prongs after it is closed. It would be cool to see some pics of Noel's jacket to look at that buckle.
_, I'm afraid I got hit with a bombshell yesterday. I called my leather supplier to find out what the hold-up was on my calfskin. He tells me the tannery stopped making it. I guess the leather was some sort of accident, and they had a pile of it to unload. Meanwhile, someone came in and cleaned them out if it. This is very bad news for me. I'm not just a little peaved with the leather vendor. He assured me that this calf was an item I could get reliably forever.
Needless to say, now I'm scrambling for a solution. I do have some custom made lambskin due to arrive at the end of this week. I have asked this leather supplier to ask the tannery about doing a special run of this calf for us, but that is a very slow process and not an immediate solution. The custom lamb is probably the best option right now. As soon as it's in and I finish one, I will post pictures.
_, I will PM you in a bit about the AMEX. Gotta run now.
Just for the record, the TOD Jacket I saw at the Hardrock Cafe' in Beverly Hills had the two prong buckles, painted black, with only one set of holes in each strap. The straps were therefore not adjustable.
Interesting. So the Temple jacket had the same hardware as Todd believes was installed on the Raiders' straps. Only for Temple, they were punched through the one time.
Hey, Lee. When was the last time you recall that Temple jacket having been on display at the Hard Rock Cafe?
SD
Last edited by St. Dumas on Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
Wow! So, if the TOD jackets were left-over Raiders jackets, that makes 2 out of 10 with the vest buckles. That doesn't include the hero/prototype. VERRRY interesting....
That was in 1985. It was in a glass case, but I went back with a camera and there in the case was a Banana Republic A-2! The Mgr. wasen't in, so I called him later and asked what gives? He said that Lucasfilm wanted it back, so they put the Banana in it's place. I told him it's the wrong jacket and was told "nobody knows the difference". That's the mentality we are dealing with.
Lee Keppler wrote:That was in 1985. It was in a glass case, but I went back with a camera and there in the case was a Banana Republic A-2! The Mgr. wasen't in, so I called him later and asked what gives? He said that Lucasfilm wanted it back, so they put the Banana in it's place. I told him it's the wrong jacket and was told "nobody knows the difference". That's the mentality we are dealing with.
That was pretty much the mentality of management at the Nashville 'Planet Hollywood' and their Raiders display. They had Raiders AND TofD stuff all mixed up in the display case. Apparently I made enough of a case to the day manager that when I went back, I saw they had broken the display into TWO displays, showcasing both movies separately, but under a single Indiana Jones banner. I have always thought it 'odd' they had nothing of or related TO Last Crusade, and this was in the mid 90's!
I won't take credit, but it was nice to see that everything I had pointed out as being 'wrongly marked' had been corrected exactly as I had described. That manager WAS listening to my ravings that day!!!:D
The museum here in Chicago had done the same thing. I had to be the one the museum currator that they had a LC jacket, not a Raiders jacket as they had it listed as.
I also find when looking at conventions and toy shows for Raiders items, I'll specifically ask for 'Raiders' items and nomatter what, they always pull out stuff from TOD. When I tell them it's not 'Raiders', they look at me funny and say something like, "This is Indiana Jones", as if I'm the crazy one.
...and the jacket Noel has used prongs as well. Pretty sure he's always called it Temple jacket?
I think PLATON posted some screen caps showing some markings on (one of) the TOD hero jackets that match the one Noel has. Of course, we know that one of the TOD hero jackets was a Cooper.
