An action pleat observation

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:26 pm

I've posted this once before in the distant past, but thought it might be a good time to toss it out again for consideration. One of the biggest discussion points I've read over the years in the jacket construction, regardless of who the vendor is, is the ability or INability of the action pleats to work. Discussion has ranged from placement of the side straps, as well as the depth of the actual pleat and placement along the back seam that seemed to dictate why some folks jackets pleats worked fine, while others seemed to gap continuously. The addition of the elastic in the back, as practiced by FS, and historically correct flight jackets, seemed to address the problem, but once again, why do some have the problem, and others don't? Well, like my subject title states, here's my observation....speaking strickly to us 'guys', we tend to have problems with a certain area of our bodies called the mid section. Where we usually have a certain belt and waist size, we tend to ignore that, for whatever reason...be it to much food, drink, genes, or just plain age, we develop the infamous 'spare tire' ABOVE that waist line measurement. Ok, with that in mind, let's consider the placement and construction of the jacket. The side straps are usually placed at or slightly below the waistline, or belt line. When cinched comfortably, what one never considers is that the area ABOVE that waistline is a bit rounder in circumference. That leather has to cover it somehow, and is pulled away from the action pleat, causing the infamous gapped opening in the pleat, not allowing it to close correctly. The straps seem to be to short, as if you let them all the way out to conform to your actual size and make the pleats work, the sides of the bottom of the jacket now parts, and the jacket now does not hang right. It's just a situation that has to be dealt with in compromise, or factored into the equation when ordering your jacket. Most of us aren't built like Harrison Ford. I know I'm not. Those who are seem to be the one's whose jacket fits perfectly, and action pleats open and close perfectly. For the rest of us, we can continue to debate the issure regarding the depth of the pleat , and the strap placement, but really need to face the fact that we have a, well, spare tire, and unless it's considered in the final results, we're just stirring air, as an old store manager once commented to me.

Those are MY observations on the subject. Thoughts?

High regards. Michaelson

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:40 pm

Most of us aren't built like Harrison Ford.

Speak for yourself. I'm young and built Ford-tough!

Additionally, according to the astrological data I've examined, Harrison Ford and I were both born (in our respective years) during the year of the horse, making us kindred spirits. I just happen to share his adventure-fit physique as well, which is an added bonus. Plus, I look d@mned good in my fedora and leather jacket, if I do say so myself.

-Dale

Doctor_Jones · Post by **Doctor_Jones** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:44 pm

Your full of yourself Dale!

Just kidding.. No offence I hope!

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:45 pm

Quick, somebody throw some cold water on the boy! (grins) Then, Dale, you fall into the group that follows that sentence, don't you? Regards. Michaelson

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:49 pm

Dale,

Not only do you share Ford's physique (as you mention) but Indy's confidence as well.

not that there's anything wrong with that...

Magnum · Post by **Magnum** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:49 pm

Dale, you really need to learn how to say exactly what you think and not hold anything back about yourself.

Just kidding. Have a good one!

Band Director Jones · Post by **Band Director Jones** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:51 pm

It is funny you mentioned this as I just sent an email to Peter asking how this can be corrected on my next Wested, which I will order as soon as he replies. One thing I am doing is having the side straps lengthened by 1". This will allow me to let the side straps out without them looking so "stubby" as my wife calls them. This might solve some of the problem.

Of course, I could excersise more and stop eating so much ice cream.

This might help me fit into all of my clothes better.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:54 pm

Hummm, adjust our jackets, or cut out the ice cream.

Send Peter the email. (grins) Regards. Michaelson

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:55 pm

Band Director Jones wrote:Of course, I could excersise more and stop eating so much ice cream. This might help me fit into all of my clothes better.

So, that's what I have to do? Stop eating ice cream? I'm not joking (honest) about this next statement---I'm really sitting here eating a bowl of Mayfield Moosetracks ice cream.

misterindy · Post by **misterindy** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:58 pm

Well said. The jacket was clearly made to emphasize Ford's athletic physique......wish I could say the same for some of us southerners

. Gotta be the cooking!

misterindy · Post by **misterindy** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 8:02 pm

Hey Joe, I live right near one of their manufacturing plants. Good ice cream.....Too good.

Band Director Jones · Post by **Band Director Jones** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 8:10 pm

Hummm, adjust our jackets, or cut out the ice cream. Send Peter the email. (grins) Regards. Michaelson

Indiana Joe wrote:I'm really sitting here eating a bowl of Mayfield Moosetracks ice cream.

Guilty as charged. For me it's Blue Bell mint chocolate chip. Made right here in Texas and the distributing plant is right down the road from me (I pass it every day on the way to work). Maybe I should stop eating it straight from the carton?

I hope Peter can save us. I don't think I can give up the addiction.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 8:15 pm

....it gives a whole new meaning to 'action pleats' now, doesn't it?

Good night all! Regards. Michaelson

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 8:16 pm

Band Director Jones wrote:
Hummm, adjust our jackets, or cut out the ice cream. Send Peter the email. (grins) Regards. Michaelson

Indiana Joe wrote:I'm really sitting here eating a bowl of Mayfield Moosetracks ice cream.
Guilty as charged. For me it's Blue Bell mint chocolate chip. Made right here in Texas and the distributing plant is right down the road from me (I pass it every day on the way to work). Maybe I should stop eating it straight from the carton?

I hope Peter can save us. I don't think I can give up the addiction.

Ahhh. Blue Bell. I had that when I was in Fort Worth back in '95 and again in '96. I believe it was a little ice cream shop in the downtown area, near the Tarrant County Convention Center.

Michaelson, we didn't mean to highjack your thread and replace it with ice cream. Honest!

On topic, I think it's a good theory. It makes sense the way you explained it, Michaelson.

So, the question now becomes-----has anyone who has the Jones physique or, who is just plain "in shape (sans spare tire)," had the problem of batwings with the perpetually open pleats? If not, we may have a winner.....

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 8:30 pm

SHORTY: "This is fun!"

LOL

Yes, I am completely aware that I'm full of myself, as people have told me on numerous occasions. Please keep in mind that I enjoy speaking tongue-in-cheek when joking (even though I am telling the truth). Still, I'm enjoying this! Thank you, by the way, for recognizing my Indy-esque sense of self-confidence.

It's like my dad says: "It's not bragging if you can do it."

-Dale

Raider1138 · Post by **Raider1138** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 8:35 pm

I don't have the "spare tire" (at least not yet) and my pleats have slowly opened up as I've worn the jacket more and more. I did however, order my jacket the same size as I do when I buy a suit (42R) so that could be part of the problem but I rarely wear my jacket zipped up. When I order my next Wested it'll be a 44R for sure. I have given this topic some thought though and I wonder if it has something to do with the back part of the pleat being folded over and then sewn rather than being made from 2 separate pieces. It's almost as if the leather is trying to unfold, thus causing the problem. I think that if the pleats were made out of 3 pieces(a piece that goes to midline of the jacket, the back of the jacket, and a piece that connects the two) rather than only 2 pieces, it might help with this problem. I'm not sure if any of the other brands of jackets have used 2 pieces of leather for the back part of the pleat so I don't know if there's any merit to this idea. Anyone else?

:

Indiana Philip · Post by **Indiana Philip** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:16 am

misterindy wrote:Hey Joe, I live right near one of their manufacturing plants. Good ice cream.....Too good.

And I'm confined to only one "Skinny Cow" per day.

BTW-Is it just me, or does my avatar make me look fat?
Indiana Philip

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 6:25 am

Wow.

Michaelson - you have a way of getting your point across with excellent observations while simultaneously insulting half of the forum! Just kidding - those are really good points and most of us (if any) had never thought about them before.

I am personally on the short side at 5'7" -5'8" and once I received my fed and Wested, did not think they looked right on a short stumpy-looking person.

Hello Atkins, goodbye twenty pounds! All this time I thought it was the way I took care of the jacket by lovingly oiling and dressing it that made my action pleats look better now than when I bought the jacket.

Now, you have helped me come to the realization that I was simply overweight. If nothing else besides a whole lot of fun, this jacket will help me stay in shape so that I do not do it injustice

Thanks!

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 6:41 am

rick5150 wrote:Now, you have helped me come to the realization that I was simply overweight. If nothing else besides a whole lot of fun, this jacket will help me stay in shape so that I do not do it injustice Thanks!

I want my jacket to fit correctly. Excellent motivation for losing weight or just plain keeping weight off, ain't it?

I.J.

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 6:46 am

I want my jacket to fit correctly. Excellent motivation for losing weight or just plain keeping weight off, ain't it?

I.J.

The problem with my jacket is that I ordered it before I lost the weight. Now it is about 2 sizes too big. This gave me a perfect excuse to order the new Wested lamb

I used the Chris King specs to get the jacket a bit tighter. It is no good if it hangs from your body, right?

Now I should lift weights and change my measurements again so I can order the next Wested -whatever that will be

Mystique · Post by **Mystique** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 9:30 am

A very astute observation Michaelson! I wonder how my Wested will
fit 10 years from now?

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:47 am

Glad this prompted some thought, as well as gave some incentive for us, and yes, I'm including myself, to get off our collective backsides and do some exercise.

I also wanted to plant the idea that the problem some of us have with the pleat may NOT be a problem of the design or the vendor at all, but with the shape of the physique it's trying to cover. Like I said in my ramble, 'guilty as charged, your honor!' High regards. Michaelson

IndianaJames · Post by **IndianaJames** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:41 pm

Hey chaps,
Just saw this thread - I own a 46R Wested and and fit I would say (no ice cream spare tire gut) and Mine stay open all the time. I have 22" shoulders and a 31" waistline - Im about 5' 11".....I just ordered a jacket with 2" deep pleats...well see what happens!

Cheers

I J

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 6:26 pm

Mystique wrote:A very astute observation Michaelson!

Quite.

You know, I cannot help but think what motivation this is for me to drop the 20 pounds and, as Dalexs says, get back to my fighting weight.

I.J.

zohar · Post by **zohar** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 6:42 pm

Racquetball with a friend.
Burns over 1000 calories/hour, and best of all, it's AWESOME SUPER FUN.

I'm up to playing about 5 times a week. Ahh, the joy of being in college.

Fiddler_Jones · Post by **Fiddler_Jones** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 8:13 pm

Hahahaha... reading this makes me wanna go to the gym.

I really like the look of the action pleats.
And on a side note, ever since getting my Wested I always make it a point to look at other people's leather jackets. Especially when my mind wanders in class and the like.
I've yet to see anything exactly like Wested's action pleats. I've seen gussets, I've seen side straps (mostly ones that do little or nothing) and storm flaps... the only other thing I've seen resembling them are what look like action pleats around or near shoulders.

Just my own little observation.

-Fiddler

IndianaJames · Post by **IndianaJames** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 9:17 pm

I SECOND that - This jacket has got to be the most unique ive ever seen, while still keeping a contemporary style (is that the word I want?) And can I just say something about those people that own leather jackets, that ACTUALLY have elastic around the waist... Are you kidding me?? IMHO its the ugliest thing ever....

Cheers!

TheOther Jones · Post by **TheOther Jones** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 4:42 am

Coming back to the pleats, they stayed open on Ford's jacket, too. Check out this pic from the Well of Souls:

His arms are down, so the pleats should be closed, but they're not. The reason they closed so nicely in the Peruvian temple is probably because it was the beginning of the shoot and that jacket was fairly new.

Indiana Philip · Post by **Indiana Philip** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:00 am

Zohar-I noticed the medal that is your avatar and do not recognize it. Can you enlighten me?
Indiana Philip

MK · Post by MK » Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:11 am

TheOther Jones wrote:Coming back to the pleats, they stayed open on Ford's jacket, too.

His arms are down, so the pleats should be closed, but they're not. The reason they closed so nicely in the Peruvian temple is probably because it was the beginning of the shoot and that jacket was fairly new.

Keep in mind that this is the begining of the shoot too. They are both shot at Elstree. Also it should be noted that your back can arch with your arms down....such as lifting heavy objects.....or pretending to ;-)

Harry Steele · Post by **Harry Steele** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 12:43 pm

Zohar's avatar looks like an Eagle Scout medal.

Harry

An action pleat observation

An action pleat observation

As proof of my thesis...