Re-Block from JPD (Updated!!!)

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:58 am

My fedora seemed a little to TOD and i wanted mored of a raiders look so i sent it off to Jimmy Peirce to have it Re-Blocked. He is putting a new darker ribbon on it as well and sending it back open crowned.

Just have to see how it turns out.

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:55 am

Yeah, pretty TOD.

What brand of hat is that?

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:46 pm

that's a beauty TOD taper i must say! if you bash the center dent so that the side profile transitions from a taller front to a shorter rear, then i think you have it......now why would you change such a lovely thing?

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:46 pm

I bought it here in arizona from a hatter called AZ-hat tech. It's a xxxxx beaver felt.

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:49 pm

Indiana G wrote:now why would you change such a lovely thing?

Because this is my only fedora and i would like a raiders fedora.Then TOD and LC in the future.

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:45 am

Could save yourself some dough and get yourself a new Raiders hat, and keep that one as the TOD hat.

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:47 pm

I don't have enogh to buy a totaly new one right now.

Any one have some good LC hats i could look at though?

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:12 pm

I know this has been discussed several times before, but whatch out regarding these X's... A xxxxxxxxxx beaver, can still be a pure rabbit.

Regards,

Marc

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:54 am

You lost me there marc. Remember your talking to a complete newb.

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:04 am

IndyFan89 wrote:You lost me there marc. Remember your talking to a complete newb.

What Marc means, is that the "X" system for rating beaver fur content in a fur felt hat, doesn't really mean anything anymore. In other words, a hat could be labelled "5X Beaver" and actually not contain ANY beaver fur at all. Bottom line is, the X system is totally unreliable for determining what type of fur a hat is made from. I'm not sure what the point of the X system even is anymore, to be honest with you, other than the fact that 5 or 6 X beaver looks good imprinted on a sweatband.

-GCR

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:06 am

It's definetly beaver. I printed up the fedora page from the gear site and the hatter made the hat based on that.

Abner1925 · Post by **Abner1925** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:07 am

The actual Indy hats were rabbit felt. So, if you printed a page from the gear site for them to "copy" specs from, it would be a no brainer that you would receive a rabbit hat. The "X" system really means nothing these days, so forget about that part as being reliable in any way.

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:04 pm

It said beaver on there as well. It was my fault that the hat wasn't up to par. I never explained to the hatter that i wasn't looking for a hat like indy's that i was looking for indy's hat. The lady just made it a simaler as possiblle and not "SA" .

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:02 pm

IndyFan89 wrote:It said beaver on there as well. It was my fault that the hat wasn't up to par. I never explained to the hatter that i wasn't looking for a hat like indy's that i was looking for indy's hat. The lady just made it a simaler as possiblle and not "SA" .

IF, just because the hat said BEAVER doesn't mean it was 100% Beaver. The xxxx's mean it's most likely a Beaver Blend or all Rabbit.

I think whoever made the hat for you ripped you off.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:28 pm

IMHO if you want a hat that looks just like the raiders hat, then you need to ensure that either marc or steve are involved in the construction (ie, buy AB or what magnoli is offering). JP comes awfully close with his offerings (and so does keppler) from what i've seen.....and then the next best thing is the akubra.

other than that, i don't believe there is any other sources for a good stove pipe, mushroomy raiders hat from any other hatter or hat place.

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:47 pm

IndyFan89 wrote:It's definetly beaver. I printed up the fedora page from the gear site and the hatter made the hat based on that.

Unfortunately, there is nothing "definite" about the "X" system other than the fact that it "definitely" doesn't mean anything. If your hat said something like "100% Beaver" or "Pure Beaver" or "Beaver Blend" then okay, but if it just gives you the ol' X system, then it's anyone's guess.

You basically have to throw the whole X system out if you're trying to determine what type of felt your hat is made from. Don't pay any attention to it at all. You just have to go by what the hatter actually says when questioned directly about the felt content in the hat. But then again, as some have found out, even that doesn't always work.

More than likely, your hat is rabbit felt, or at best a rabbit / beaver blend. That's not a bad thing, so don't think we're all coming down on your hat since it's (probably) not beaver. Just trying to enlighten you as to how the "X" system works (or in this case, DOESN'T work).

-GCR

Abner1925 · Post by **Abner1925** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:17 pm

IndyFan89 wrote:It said beaver on there as well. It was my fault that the hat wasn't up to par. I never explained to the hatter that i wasn't looking for a hat like indy's that i was looking for indy's hat. The lady just made it a simaler as possiblle and not "SA" .

Question for you... where on the gear page does it say that the Raider's hat was beaver felt?

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:26 pm

Man you guys are brutal...

Without holding the hat or seeing what it looked like when it was new you are all instantly able to ascertain the hats quality and beaver content. And being able to determine value without even a originating price? BRAVO!

I have personally seen HIGH QUALITY beaver hats that will wear like this if they are actually WORN in all types of weather. Even the fabled AB's that we all own are not invulnerable to taper.

FYI, IndyFan89, they may be correct but remember the old saying about opinions being similar to anatomy...

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:41 pm

Fedoraman wrote:.... remember the old saying about opinions being similar to anatomy...

The elbow?

Regards! Michaelson

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:46 pm

Just some background info on the x system. It was used by Stetson in the late 19th century, and early to mid 20th century to notate the beaver content in the hat. It worked like this. A 3x hat had 30 per cent beaver content, a 5x, 50 per cent, and a 10x was pure beaver fur. The more beaver, the higher quality the felt, and the more expensive it was.

Today, circa, 2007. The x system is meaningless if you are looking at it to notate the beaver content. It looks good on the sweatband is all I can say. Some hatters have taken this to ridiculous heights, by offering even a million x hat!!

Their reasoning is, if a 100x sells for 600 dollars, a million x hat should fetch 10,000 dollars. So, beware of the x's if you are looking for a particular beaver fur content.

My rule of thumb is, if a hatter is deceptive in his advertising, you need to move on and find one that will shoot you straight. And, most will, if you just ask them directly, and act like you know what you are talking about. Beware of any hatter who tries to sell you "up" when you call him. A real hatter as opposed to a used car salesman type of hatter will not do this to you. This guy is out to empty your wallet and there is at least one of those out there, lurking in the shadows, waiting for an idiot to visit.

There are honest hatters out there, and there are crooks. It is up to you to do the research and to know the difference. Fedora

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:08 pm

Fedoraman wrote:Man you guys are brutal...

Without holding the hat or seeing what it looked like when it was new you are all instantly able to ascertain the hats quality and beaver content. And being able to determine value without even a originating price? BRAVO!

I have personally seen HIGH QUALITY beaver hats that will wear like this if they are actually WORN in all types of weather. Even the fabled AB's that we all own are not invulnerable to taper.

FYI, IndyFan89, they may be correct but remember the old saying about opinions being similar to anatomy...

Well, just for the record, I never said anything about the quality of his hat, or how it looked, or whether I think beaver is better than rabbit or vice versa. And I do know how much he paid for it. I'm just saying Indyfan needs to understand that just because his hat has the word "beaver" on it, doesn't mean it has any beaver content. Whether that is a good thing or not depends on one's perspective and taste.

Anyways, I think his hat will look great once Jimmy is able to work his magic on it, as I suspect the incorrect blockshape is the real culprit here, regardless of the felt type.

-GCR

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:11 pm

The lady said it was beaver. The hat said 5 x. I'm not arguing about the felt it's good felt just a bad origanal block. I've only had the hat for a couple mounths.

Question for you... where on the gear page does it say that the Raider's hat was beaver felt?

It doesnet but i printed up the hole fedora page and gave it to the hatter being stupid and she made me more of a TOD hat than a Raiders hat. She also did the ribbon wrong. Maybe Jimmy Peirce can tell me what my hat is. I'm new at this so i listen to you guy's.

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:21 pm

I just think he paid to much for the hat itself. I don't think there is anything wrong with the quality of the felt I just think if it's a beaver blend or rabbit he could have spent less. The person he bought it from charged him $250!

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:53 pm

indyfan89,

be careful of going to any hatter and asking for a raiders hat. most of them say they can do it but the only way that you can confirm that they can is if you personally look at the blocks they use. any block that has a taper will not make a raiders hat. you also have to pay particular attention to them just "extending" one of their current straight blocks to get the height needed as the top of the block may still not have the right shape. i found this out the hard way with one of our local hatters.

a hatter inexperienced in making an actual raiders hat will fail on their first try even if you spoon feed them the specifications and give them a million pictures....why do you think steve is still making adjustments to his block?........its not a very easy hat to replicate and it has taken fedora quite a while to get it where he wants it (though i thought it was perfect last year

).

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:00 pm

I new i was getting riped off. Well hopfully JPD can do some wonders. The fed should have arived today.

Abner1925 · Post by **Abner1925** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:36 pm

I was just making sure you didn't copy and take in something other than real indy fedora info, when asking about the beaver felt thing. I also made no comment about the quality of your hat, the felt itself, or even the bash of it. So, count me out of the list fedoraman was jumping on as well.

The point some of the other guys seem to be making here, is that if your hat is any sort of xxxx beaver felt, it wound up costing you more than it should have. Not the end of the world, as we have all overpaid for something in our lives.

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:43 pm

I only buy from marc in the future. lol

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:16 pm

IndyFan89 wrote:I only buy from marc in the future. lol

Not a bad decision...at least then you'll KNOW you're hat is indeed Pure Beaver!

-GCR

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:58 pm

Does any body have a good raiders fedora bashing tutorial? I would like to bash the hat myself.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:06 am

first thread in the fedora section where all the hats are shown also has pagey's bashing tutorial....the pictures are gone but there is still a wealth of instructions there to help you with the bash.

....ha ha...i beat vp again!

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:55 am

I'm going to attemp to turn a bash my hat with out having to send it away for another re block lol

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:09 pm

This is my hat now! This is my very first atempt on bashing it myself!

Before Bash with turn.

After complete bash.

Comparison

Be honest.

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:31 pm

What did you use to shape it? Water, steam or did you do it dry?

My advice would be to pop out those dents ASAP and start over. No offense, but you wanted honesty. Is the hat very stiff? If so, that deep center dent on top might be causing the sides to pull inward like that. And the side dents seem like they are too deep as well. I'd pop the dents out, hit the hat with some mist from a spary water bottle and then try and smooth it back out into the original open crown format. Then begin again, and make the dents very shallow and subtle.

Again, this is just what I would do...if you like the way your hat looks right now, I'd say forget all that and wear it with pride. It doesn't look bad, certainly better than how it looked before.

-GCR

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:21 pm

I hit it with water. and when you say to deep do you mean to far back or dented in to much?

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:11 pm

IndyFan89 wrote:I hit it with water. and when you say to deep do you mean to far back or dented in to much?

For the top dent - dented in too much

For the side dents - too far back

-GCR

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:31 pm

How about now?

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:34 pm

Better...it's hard to tell from that first pic, since the proximity of the hat to the camera throws off the perspective. But in the second pic, where you can see the front of the hat reflected in the mirror, it looks better. How tall is your front pinch?

-GCR

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:37 pm

Almost three inches. How long should it be?

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:47 pm

IndyFan89 wrote:Almost three inches. How long should it be?

I think you measured wrong...there is no way the front pinch on that hat could only be 3 inches. The front pinch in the straight line where the to side dents meet at the front of the hat. Starting at the brim and measuring up to the top of the hat, what measurement do you get?

-GCR

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:50 pm

about 5 1/2.

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:52 pm

IndyFan89 wrote:about 5 1/2.

Okay, that could be part of your issue as well, the front pinch height should be around 4 1/2 inches or so.

You might want to pop out the dents and pinch the hat a bit lower, that could give you a better place to start.

-GCR

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:00 am

I'm willing to bet that it's close to five inches in the front. It looks to hign. It looks like the whole center dent need to come down lower. The side dent ( the top part , doesn't need to be so high. I wish I could draw on you photo's. You need to look at some photo's of Ford's hat. Did you ever stated what hat this is???

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:17 am

BendingOak wrote:I wish I could draw on you photo's

These may help:

- Mac

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:37 am

Every time i try to make it lower it starts to taper. I made it half a inch lower but any lower than that it starts to take the wrong shape. I think it's because the hatter i origanly bouth the hat from didn't know what she was doing and Jimmy did the best he can to help. I'm going to keep it like this and buy a ABD this summer.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:06 am

mac, yes it does. thank you.

indyfan89. who's the hatter of that hat? Hoow tall is the crown (open crown)?

You can't go wrong with either hat from the Adventurebilt line.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:59 pm

IndyFan, I honestly think you and Jimmy have done the best you can within the limits of that hat. The second bash seem nice, even if it's not a perfect duplication. Still, the hat has provided you the opportunity to learn, so now you can bash your own ABD!!!

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:31 pm

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317 ... newhat.jpg

Now I am thinking that this picture is about the best at showing what the hat really looks like. I used to think my hats were tapered early on because I would take pictures with the Myspace angle so close up. Then it would look tapered. What you ought to do is get someone to snap a picture of you from about 5-7 feet away under some kind of overhead lighting where the shadowing will really give the hat that look you're going for. I've said in a thread before that sometimes the way a hat looks is all in the lighting.

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:32 pm

Thanks guy's but i think that this is how the hat is going to look. In person it looks really good. I'm gonna get the real deal this summer!

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:41 am

I'm not ready to believe it's a "stunt hat" just yet. I'd still like to see photos of it from a short distance rather than right up close.

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:03 am

Maybe for my next Indy film. BTW is that you Tone?